March P452 eta

[Deleted member 23424]

In fact, following subsequent emails from Alan I'm going to suggest that nobody orders anything from March whatsoever.

Will share the conversations in full in due course.

I stupidly put his ASR exit down to an unfortunate clash of personalities. Hmmmm

 

[amper42]

I would imagine fewer orders for the P452 are being placed than a year ago with less expensive options now available. I'm a little surprised the P452 price has not drifted to the $1300 range. I would certainly like to see Buckeye Amps sell a $900 Purifi based stereo amp.

 

[Deleted member 23424]

I would imagine fewer orders for the P452 are being placed than a year ago with less expensive options now available. I'm a little surprised the P452 price has not drifted to the $1300 range. I would certainly like to see Buckeye Amps sell a $900 Purifi based stereo amp.

Any suggestions as to decent alternatives? I certainly won't be buying from said vendor ever again.

 

[Deleted member 23424]

In fact, following subsequent emails from Alan I'm going to suggest that nobody orders anything from March whatsoever.

Will share the conversations in full in due course.

I stupidly put his ASR exit down to an unfortunate clash of personalities. Hmmmm

In fact I really can't be arsed giving him oxygen. For a long time, I would read threads on here, get confused as fuck, watch an argument unfold, then wait for Alan March or John Yang to chime in to throw some light on the matter. I bought a D90. Superb.

Then, once I'd finally saved enough money to buy an amp I actively looked out March Audio.

To go from actively hunting out a supplier and willingly throwing $1500 at them to vowing to never deal with them again within weeks, and without a product even changing hands, probably says more than than the dumbass email exchange ever will.

I wish all independents the best of luck, I am one, albeit in a different sector, and I include March in that statement. But fuck me, why make obstacles of your own creation. Absolutely dumbfounded by the experience.

Best of luck Alan.
By all accounts, you'll need it.

 

[amper42]

Any suggestions as to decent alternatives? I certainly won't be buying from said vendor ever again.

A lot of the quality amps I own sound very similar. That's why it would be hard for me to spend another $1700 on a stereo Purifi based amp when I can buy a Buckeye NC502MP amp for $649 shipped. I will end up waiting almost 2 months for the Buckeye NC502MP amps but the value per watt is significant. If you believe the Purifi will sound $1000 better than the NC502MP then maybe it's worth it?

But, when I look at the ASR test below where the NC502MP follows the Purifi performance quite closely for the first 10 watts and offers significant extra headroom on peaks it seems like an excellent alternative for 60% less. I'm happy with the NC502MP THD+N performance curve and I think it will be difficult to identify whether a Purifi or the NC502MP is in use in a blind test.

 

[Deleted member 23424]

A lot of the quality amps I own sound very similar. That's why it would be hard for me to spend another $1700 on a stereo Purifi based amp when I can buy a Buckeye NC502MP amp for $649 shipped. I will end up waiting almost 2 months for the Buckeye NC502MP amps but the value per watt is significant. If you believe the Purifi will sound $1000 better than the NC502MP then maybe it's worth it?

But, when I look at the ASR test below where the NC502MP follows the Purifi performance quite closely for the first 10 watts and offers significant extra headroom on peaks it seems like an excellent alternative for 60% less. I'm happy with the NC502MP THD+N performance curve and I think it will be difficult to identify whether a Purifi or the NC502MP is in use in a blind test.


View attachment 168268

If I'm honest, this is precisely where I started out. Topping D90 at one end and Revel M16 at t'other is hardly high end, though decent enough, and I question whether or not I need to up things to Purifi. But... having no chance of home demo I'll forever be thinking to myself.... what if?

As bollocks as it has been having dealers peddle their sales targets at everyone who walks through their doors, rather than source the best components for their customers (not ALL shops, I know, but most) this alternative that we're all building on here makes demoes even harder to come by. Not complaining btw, at least now I know that the expensive amp I'm risking testicular castration for is decent and not an absolute donkey. But still the can i appreciate the difference between X and Y via my rig will forever have me looking at possibly unnecessary upgrades.

 

[Deleted member 23424]

A lot of the quality amps I own sound very similar. That's why it would be hard for me to spend another $1700 on a stereo Purifi based amp

Just out of interest: do you/ have you owned a purifi? Or are you basing your opinion of purifi amps v hypex on graphs? Not knocking you either way, but I constantly read such evaluations only to discover the author is basing it on their data expectations rather than their experience. Both positions are valid, but I'd like some objectivist subjective experience to consider alongside the conjecture.

 

[Rottmannash]

Just out of interest: do you/ have you owned a purifi? Or are you basing your opinion of purifi amps v hypex on graphs? Not knocking you either way, but I constantly read such evaluations only to discover the author is basing it on their data expectations rather than their experience. Both positions are valid, but I'd like some objectivist subjective experience to consider alongside the conjecture.

I have the VTV Purifi and a Buckeye NC 252 MP and I'm kinda embarrassed to say I can't tell them apart, even at high volume, and I'm listening on decent equipment. I use the Purifi on my main L and R and power my rear surrounds with the 252-underutilized for sure.

 

[amper42]

Just out of interest: do you/ have you owned a purifi? Or are you basing your opinion of purifi amps v hypex on graphs? Not knocking you either way, but I constantly read such evaluations only to discover the author is basing it on their data expectations rather than their experience. Both positions are valid, but I'd like some objectivist subjective experience to consider alongside the conjecture.

I have been using the Purifi based P452 for a year now. It currently powers the Revel F328Be and sounds great. My Buckeye NC502MP amps arrive end of Dec. When I read the Purifi reviews I thought I absolutely needed one. However, for my relatively relaxed listening levels I didn't hear much of a difference between my existing Monolith 7X200 and the P452 Purifi amp once it arrived. As long as my selected amp offers above 85dB THD+N performance, isn't designed to color the sound and is operated within its recommended volume limits - they all sound quite similar. It's hard to believe this is true until you have several quality amps at your disposal to easily switch between. By the time you learn this lesson you have already spent a barrel of money on various amps.

 

[Deleted member 23424]

I have the VTV Purifi and a Buckeye NC 252 MP and I'm kinda embarrassed to say I can't tell them apart, even at high volume, and I'm listening on decent equipment. I use the Purifi on my main L and R and power my rear surrounds with the 252-underutilized for sure.

Thanks. This is what I'm after. Have you used both amps on the same speakers in the same space? Not in a fully scientific AB, but as a direct subjective comparison?

 

[Rottmannash]

Thanks. This is what I'm after. Have you used both amps on the same speakers in the same space? Not in a fully scientific AB, but as a direct subjective comparison?

Yes. Revel 208'S. I was surprised there wasn't an easily discernible audible difference- especially when I cranked up the volume. I do have some Emotiva monoblocs that are class D using Ice Power modules and there is a stark difference with those amps- high frequencies are harsh and distorted at high volume, especially on poorly recorded music. One of them was measured here and the HF distortion was seen in the graphs. If you don't have money to burn and don't listen at ear bleeding levels I'd consider 252 based amps. Great value.

 

[Deleted member 23424]

Yes. Revel 208'S. I was surprised there wasn't an easily discernible audible difference- especially when I cranked up the volume. I do have some Emotiva monoblocs that are class D using Ice Power modules and there is a stark difference with those amps- high frequencies are harsh and distorted at high volume, especially on poorly recorded music. One of them was measured here and the HF distortion was seen in the graphs. If you don't have money to burn and don't listen at ear bleeding levels I'd consider 252 based amps. Great value.

Gratefully received food for thought. Thanks. I know my what if tendencies will eat at my soul if I don't buy up, but with everything "measuring so well you don't hear the difference" on here, and with no chance of demo, I'm left in a state that I belive audio scientists call "bollocksed,"

Just received the refund from March (Jesus wept, no comment) so I'll dig deep and research hard until it hits my credit card account for respend.

 

[Deleted member 23424]

I have been using the Purifi based P452 for a year now. It currently powers the Revel F328Be and sounds great. My Buckeye NC502MP amps arrive end of Dec. When I read the Purifi reviews I thought I absolutely needed one. However, for my relatively relaxed listening levels I didn't hear much of a difference between my existing Monolith 7X200 and the P452 Purifi amp once it arrived. As long as my selected amp offers above 85dB THD+N performance, isn't designed to color the sound and is operated within its recommended volume limits - they all sound quite similar. It's hard to believe this is true until you have several quality amps at your disposal to easily switch between. By the time you learn this lesson you have already spent a barrel of money on various amps.

Sorry, missed this earlier. Yep, that's my issue. I don't want an amp, per se I just want a signal amplified without fuss. For me, Purifi kind of future proofs the upgrade itch. I've not heard any Hypex or Purifi implementations, I just want something to (subjectively) satisfy the upgrade itch for the foreseeable. If a 502 or 252 can do that I'm all in

 

[Rottmannash]

Gratefully received food for thought. Thanks. I know my what if tendencies will eat at my soul if I don't buy up, but with everything "measuring so well you don't hear the difference" on here, and with no chance of demo, I'm left in a state that I belive audio scientists call "bollocksed,"

Just received the refund from March (Jesus wept, no comment) so I'll dig deep and research hard until it hits my credit card account for respend.

I had exactly the same thought as you-I won't be able to feel satisfied unless I have the superiorly measuring Purifi. I could thankfully afford it so bought it. Then bought the 252 and was amazed at how similar they sounded so now believe the hype about NCore modules-very very close to Purifi.

 

[Deleted member 23424]

-very very close .

That's my hang up right there.

 

[tmtomh]

I have a Purifi amp (Audiophonics) and I really like it. That said, I very much doubt I could tell any difference between it and a well-implemented (aka well-assembled) Hypex-based amp. Having the Purifi, knowing that it gives 5-10dB more headroom in the SINAD dept makes me feel better, but I suspect that subjective feeling is likely the only difference - well, that and the price.

One way of thinking about a Purifi-based amp is that it's sort of a Hypex-based amp but with a built-in insurance policy: you pay extra for that insurance policy, and in exchange you can feel confident that even if your unit falls slightly short of Purifi-level performance (because of sub-optimal internal component layout/wiring or just unit-to-unit variation), you are at least still going to be getting performance equal to that of the Hypex reference level, which is already pretty darned good.

 

[MaxBuck]

I have the VTV Purifi and a Buckeye NC 252 MP and I'm kinda embarrassed to say I can't tell them apart, even at high volume, and I'm listening on decent equipment. I use the Purifi on my main L and R and power my rear surrounds with the 252-underutilized for sure.

I'm not surprised that you can't discern any audible differences. I am quite sure I couldn't.

 

[kchap]

Gratefully received food for thought. Thanks. I know my what if tendencies will eat at my soul if I don't buy up, but with everything "measuring so well you don't hear the difference" on here, and with no chance of demo, I'm left in a state that I belive audio scientists call "bollocksed,"

Just received the refund from March (Jesus wept, no comment) so I'll dig deep and research hard until it hits my credit card account for respend.

Pity, I have a pair of P451 and really like them. At the time I thought they were a little expensive but, how do the Nord units shape up?

 

[boXem]

Any suggestions as to decent alternatives? I certainly won't be buying from said vendor ever again.

Mmm, let me think about it

 

[peng]

A lot of the quality amps I own sound very similar. That's why it would be hard for me to spend another $1700 on a stereo Purifi based amp when I can buy a Buckeye NC502MP amp for $649 shipped. I will end up waiting almost 2 months for the Buckeye NC502MP amps but the value per watt is significant. If you believe the Purifi will sound $1000 better than the NC502MP then maybe it's worth it?

But, when I look at the ASR test below where the NC502MP follows the Purifi performance quite closely for the first 10 watts and offers significant extra headroom on peaks it seems like an excellent alternative for 60% less. I'm happy with the NC502MP THD+N performance curve and I think it will be difficult to identify whether a Purifi or the NC502MP is in use in a blind test.


View attachment 168268

I think you are right. As you probably know I have the two side by side and is still trying to listen for differences, but I have been too busy to find time to do it properly. It will probably take me a few more weeks to conclude. Unfortunately it is near impossible for me to do anything other than level matched tests, and sighted. Having been influenced by the ASR measurements, it will be highly unlikely for me to hear any difference between the two regardless.