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Marantz SR8015 Review (Home Theater AVR)

peng

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Sorry I wasn't questioning the results or the manner in which they were calculated but I appreciate the explanation nonetheless :) I was simply inquiring into why other reviews on this forum don't seem to include this measurement or am I simply missing it.

Essentially, if I look at the TX-RZ50, Cinema 50, 3800H reviews will I find this "number of channels driven" measurement?

I know what you are saying. That' why I started with "by the way", as Amir's 70 vs 61% comment needed clarification regardless.

You can find the 5 channel output tests from Audioholics reviews but Gene has not measured too many AVRs, though he did measure the SR8015 that you seem to be interested in.

Audiovision.de measured a large number of avrs and they typically do measure with 5 or 7 channels driven. Most of their test results are free but some are in pdf that you have to buy.

Below is one example:

 

techsamurai

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I know what you are saying. That' why I started with "by the way", as Amir's 70 vs 61% comment needed clarification regardless.

You can find the 5 channel output tests from Audioholics reviews but Gene has not measured too many AVRs, though he did measure the SR8015 that you seem to be interested in.

Audiovision.de measured a large number of avrs and they typically do measure with 5 or 7 channels driven. Most of their test results are free but some are in pdf that you have to buy.

Below is one example:


Thank you! Why doesn't Amir measure that for AVRs? Is it not an important measure?

Gene does great reviews but not as many as I'd like him to :) and has recently removed some of his measurements or at least it appears that way.

I did notice someone posted a chart from Audiovision (may have been you) in german so I guess they are the only ones doing those measurements since SoundAndVision stopped including them.
 

peng

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Thank you! Why doesn't Amir measure that for AVRs? Is it not an important measure?

Gene does great reviews but not as many as I'd like him to :) and has recently removed some of his measurements or at least it appears that way.

I did notice someone posted a chart from Audiovision (may have been you) in german so I guess they are the only ones doing those measurements since SoundAndVision stopped including them.

I think he mentioned something about it wasn't easy to do with his AP model but I am just going by memory so could be wrong. Other than that, to measure 5 or more channel, it will take a much longer time obviously.

If you are concerned about the 5,7 channel output numbers, then you probably should stick with Denon or Marantz. I just found another example of Denon's 5/7 channel output that is a more impressive one than other AVRs:


That's almost 200 W with 5 channel driven simultaneously into 4 ohms, or almost 160 W into 6 ohms, that put some real separate power amps to shame! It looks to be a real "high current" capable AVR that will likely drive @dlaloum's low impedance/high phase angle speakers.:D

Denon-AVC-110-Fazit.jpg
 

techsamurai

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I think he mentioned something about it wasn't easy to do with his AP model but I am just going by memory so could be wrong. Other than that, to measure 5 or more channel, it will take a much longer time obviously.

If you are concerned about the 5,7 channel output numbers, then you probably should stick with Denon or Marantz. I just found another example of Denon's 5/7 channel output that is a more impressive one than other AVRs:


That's almost 200 W with 5 channel driven simultaneously into 4 ohms, or almost 160 W into 6 ohms, that put some real separate power amps to shame! It looks to be a real "high current" capable AVR that will likely drive @dlaloum's low impedance/high phase angle speakers.:D

Denon-AVC-110-Fazit.jpg

yeah, this is a pretty powerful AVR but it's not clear if this 0.1% or 1% THD and more importantly it doesn't include 8 ohm measurements - 4 ohm are always much higher. I've never seen 6 ohm so it's hard to compare them to 8 ohm unless we assume equivalency.

Is the Denon AVC110 more powerful than the Denon 7200W? I'm not sure and I assume neither is Audiovisio.de, SoundAndVision, or Denon... I guess we'll decide which one is more powerful here :)

Anyway, I disagree with Marantz and Denon being the best for 5 or 7 channel except for their flagships or close to that - they tend to drop to 70-80 wats in 7 channel.

The Marantz SR5003 which cost $800 and is apparently the overdeliverer of all AVRs of all time - instead of 70%, I think it delivered 120% in 5 channel and 100% in 7 channel - could easily compete with many of the $2,000-$3,000 AVRs from Denon and Marantz in 7 channels.


Has anyone benchmarked the RZ-50 or did it fail in 5 or 7 channel in 4/8 ohms?
 

techsamurai

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Here's an interesting one for the 6006 measured by SoundandVision and Audiophile. It helps translate the 6 to 8 ohms and it shows how difficult it is to compare apples to oranges. But a 4ohm 300 watt 2 channel is about the limit in an AVR so anything that approximates that is incredibly powerful.



My personal rule of thumb is that for 7 channels, anything over 100 watts for 8 ohms @ 0.1% THD is great. To get 120 watts you have to spend double.

When it comes to 5 channels, anything over 90 watts is great and over 100 watts is really good.
 
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peng

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yeah, this is a pretty powerful AVR but it's not clear if this 0.1% or 1% THD and more importantly it doesn't include 8 ohm measurements - 4 ohm are always much higher. I've never seen 6 ohm so it's hard to compare them to 8 ohm unless we assume equivalency.

Typically speaking, the 4 ohm tests would show higher numbers in the 2 channel driven tests. For 5 and 7 channel tests, 4 ohm would not do well and may actually fail the test because the AVR's power supplies don't have the current capability. For the same voltage, current into 4 ohm will be doubled that into 8 ohms.

S&V has rarely, if ever, measured 7 channels driven into 4 ohms. In my over 60 units measured by S&V, they have only done such test on the Yamaha RX-Z9, though I might have missed some.

Is the Denon AVC110 more powerful than the Denon 7200W? I'm not sure and I assume neither is Audiovisio.de, SoundAndVision, or Denon... I guess we'll decide which one is more powerful here :)

Based on Audiovision.de, I would say without a doubt the AVC-A110 is more powerful than the AVC-X7200W. You can't compare results from different benches, you can but it won't mean as such as you compare result done by the same bench, preferable by the same person.

Anyway, I disagree with Marantz and Denon being the best for 5 or 7 channel except for their flagships or close to that - they tend to drop to 70-80 wats in 7 channel.

The Marantz SR5003 which cost $800 and is apparently the overdeliverer of all AVRs of all time - instead of 70%, I think it delivered 120% in 5 channel and 100% in 7 channel - could easily compete with many of the $2,000-$3,000 AVRs from Denon and Marantz in 7 channels.


Has anyone benchmarked the RZ-50 or did it fail in 5 or 7 channel in 4/8 ohms?

There is nothing for you to disagree actually, because I've never said Denon and Marantz are the best in 5 or 7 channel driven output, but they are the one that sort of guarantee 70% of the 2 channel driven output so there is consistency there to consider. I only suggested you stick with those because of their 70% guarantee (sort of ..).

If you were to go with by the best ever, then Onkyo/Integra would probably be the best, but only based on S&V's test results and results from what I tabulated a few years ago only, so up to date results that include the newer models may not show the same.

With Onkyo, Yamaha, Sony etc., it varies a lot between model years so unless there are bench tests to look at, you wouldn't know what you are getting. Even within Denon/Marantz, different year models have measured quite differently on S&V, though the differences typically weren't great, say within 10-20% typically speaking.

As to the 8 ohm vs 4 ohm, yes in bench tests, the 4 ohm numbers are typically higher, but not as much, or not always the case under the 5 or 7 channel driven conditions because into 4 ohm, at the same voltage current will double. So AVRS that have relatively weaker power supplies won't do well in the 5/7 channel driven into 4 ohm loads.

About the SR5003, I found that some of their test results were suspect, most were okay though. It is hard to imagine the SR5003 measured that well, look like an outlier to me in that case. I have seen other cases, where S&V tested the same AVR model, yet one test showed much better results than the other, one example is the AVR-4308CI, I paid attention to that one because I have it. I have tabulated more than 60 of the S&V bench tests for power outputs including the 5,7 channel driven tests and I just cut it off at 50, to include the SR5003, that I ranked it 33th in this table, sorted by their 2 channel driven into 4 ohms, at 01% THD. You can rank it yourself in any other ways obviously.

1675361642659.png
 
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techsamurai

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Typically speaking, the 4 ohm tests would show higher numbers in the 2 channel driven tests. For 5 and 7 channel tests, 4 ohm would not do well and may actually fail the test because the AVR's power supplies don't have the current capability. For the same voltage, current into 4 ohm will be doubled that into 8 ohms.

S&V has rarely, if ever, measured 7 channels driven into 4 ohms. In my over 60 units measured by S&V, they have only done such test on the Yamaha RX-Z9, though I might have missed some.



Based on Audiovision.de, I would say without a doubt the AVC-A110 is more powerful than the AVC-X7200W. You can't compare results from different benches, you can but it won't mean as such as you compare result done by the same bench, preferable by the same person.



There is nothing for you to disagree actually, because I've never said Denon and Marantz are the best in 5 or 7 channel driven output, but they are the one that sort of guarantee 70% of the 2 channel driven output so there is consistency there to consider. I only suggested you stick with those because of their 70% guarantee (sort of ..).

If you were to go with by the best ever, then Onkyo/Integra would probably be the best, but only based on S&V's test results and results from what I tabulated a few years ago only, so up to date results that include the newer models may not show the same.

With Onkyo, Yamaha, Sony etc., it varies a lot between model years so unless there are bench tests to look at, you wouldn't know what you are getting. Even within Denon/Marantz, different year models have measured quite differently on S&V, though the differences typically weren't great, say within 10-20% typically speaking.

As to the 8 ohm vs 4 ohm, yes in bench tests, the 4 ohm numbers are typically higher, but not as much, or not always the case under the 5 or 7 channel driven conditions because into 4 ohm, at the same voltage current will double. So AVRS that have relatively weaker power supplies won't do well in the 5/7 channel driven into 4 ohm loads.

About the SR5003, I found that some of their test results were suspect, most were okay though. It is hard to imagine the SR5003 measured that well, look like an outlier to me in that case. I have seen other cases, where S&V tested the same AVR model, yet one test showed much better results than the other, one example is the AVR-4308CI, I paid attention to that one because I have it. I have tabulated more than 60 of the S&V bench tests for power outputs including the 5,7 channel driven tests and I just cut it off at 50, to include the SR5003, that I ranked it 33th in this table, sorted by their 2 channel driven into 4 ohms, at 01% THD. You can rank it yourself in any other ways obviously.

View attachment 261782

Holy smokes, do you have a link for this speadsheet?

I mentioned the SR5003 because of what Marantz rated them at (90W) and what they delivered. I'm not sure if we've seen another AVR that was rated at 90Watts deliver 90 Watts in 7 channels :)

I also questioned that as well but it's mentioned in the review using the 70% rule and I have a feeling they must have triple checked it.

But AudioVisio.de comes to the rescue with the 5014 (not the 5012) - it could be right.



For the Marantz SR8002, I noticed you have the DAC - is that a good DAC?
 

peng

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Holy smokes, do you have a link for this speadsheet?

I mentioned the SR5003 because of what Marantz rated them at (90W) and what they delivered. I'm not sure if we've seen another AVR that was rated at 90Watts deliver 90 Watts in 7 channels :)

I also questioned that as well but it's mentioned in the review using the 70% rule and I have a feeling they must have triple checked it.

But AudioVisio.de comes to the rescue with the 5014 (not the 5012) - it could be right.



For the Marantz SR8002, I noticed you have the DAC - is that a good DAC?

No, I prepare it myself, in Excel. I can email you a copy, or if you give me a link to upload.
 

peng

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Holy smokes, do you have a link for this speadsheet?

For the Marantz SR8002, I noticed you have the DAC - is that a good DAC?

The SR8002 has the CS4382A, it has DR 114 dB, SINAD 100 dB, compared that to the current Marant AVRs that has the PCM5102A, DR 112 dB, SINAD 93 dB. So I would say it is good.

It is not as good as the AK4458 that D+M used before the AKM factory fire.
 

peng

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oic, how do I create a link to upload?

I don't know what kind of server you use, such as cloud? May be I can upload it and then you go download it. Let me see what I can do, time permitting..
 

techsamurai

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I don't know what kind of server you use, such as cloud? May be I can upload it and then you go download it. Let me see what I can do, time permitting..
No need to go through the trouble. I can use the screenshot! :)
 

techsamurai

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The SR8002 has the CS4382A, it has DR 114 dB, SINAD 100 dB, compared that to the current Marant AVRs that has the PCM5102A, DR 112 dB, SINAD 93 dB. So I would say it is good.

It is not as good as the AK4458 that D+M used before the AKM factory fire.

Thanks, I have a feeling I'm not going to be pleasantly surprised when I upgrade after 15 years of using my 8002s ;-) Since I don't have height channels, the only thing that I can get an improvement from are Dirac or Spatial DSP for movies. Powerwise, not much touches the 8002 under $5,000.
 

LTig

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I don't know what kind of server you use, such as cloud? May be I can upload it and then you go download it. Let me see what I can do, time permitting..
You can use wetransfer.com to send files to an email address which gets a download link valid for 7 days. You can also publish the download link here or via PM.
 

MacCali

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Very true - how did they manage to run the old AVRs without fans?
5-7 channels wasn't that bad, I think as soon as Dolby atmos came about and everyone wanting sound from every direction the AVRs started going up in channels which is probably way too much power draw. Guessing the new denon[15 ch] and marantz separates for certain went with class D

I bought an Onkyo from 2008-10 i believe was the life, recently as I am new to home audio, from goodwill for 50 dollars. Only reason I bought it is because it had HDMI inputs and outputs. The thing works amazing, and whoever had it didn't even put a single scratch or dent on it. I cant really say much about the history, it could of been used a couple times a week or a couple times a year in regard to its longevity. But it was great and honestly would of brought the unit back to life with that new REI processor or whatever it is. The one Amir reviewed, but now I put my marantz[2019] in the living room and my processor in the "theater" room. It is 7 channels and it never got hot like my Marantz, possibly why it's still here and functional
 

techsamurai

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5-7 channels wasn't that bad, I think as soon as Dolby atmos came about and everyone wanting sound from every direction the AVRs started going up in channels which is probably way too much power draw. Guessing the new denon[15 ch] and marantz separates for certain went with class D

I bought an Onkyo from 2008-10 i believe was the life, recently as I am new to home audio, from goodwill for 50 dollars. Only reason I bought it is because it had HDMI inputs and outputs. The thing works amazing, and whoever had it didn't even put a single scratch or dent on it. I cant really say much about the history, it could of been used a couple times a week or a couple times a year in regard to its longevity. But it was great and honestly would of brought the unit back to life with that new REI processor or whatever it is. The one Amir reviewed, but now I put my marantz[2019] in the living room and my processor in the "theater" room. It is 7 channels and it never got hot like my Marantz, possibly why it's still here and functional

What model is the Onkyo and your new Marantz?
 

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