Marantz SR7015 8K AVR Review

[gaussianmist]

Some things like the DAC filter, yes.

You have a lot of clout. If you urge them (Sound United) will they fix it?

Also, do you think a room noise floor of 50dBC will mask a SINAD (7015) of 75?

 

[gaussianmist]

@amirm
Since I'm the new kid on the forum here, I wonder if I could ask why we are testing the DAC/pre-amp section at 2 volts which seems to be unrealistically high. Unrealistic because doing the math reveals that at 2 volts delivered to the power amp it is pushing ca. 347 watts at 8 ohms. Since the Marantz is rated at 125 watts at 8 ohms, why would we be testing at so high a level which would so overdrive the power amp if delivered? Real world, at 1.2 volts (the power amp's input sensitivity), SINAD is (as I recall) -90dB and is 0.003% THD+noise when expressed as a percentage. Not too shabby.

 

[Klint]

@amirm
Since I'm the new kid on the forum here, I wonder if I could ask why we are testing the DAC/pre-amp section at 2 volts which seems to be unrealistically high. Unrealistic because doing the math reveals that at 2 volts delivered to the power amp it is pushing ca. 347 watts at 8 ohms. Since the Marantz is rated at 125 watts at 8 ohms, why would we be testing at so high a level which would so overdrive the power amp if delivered? Real world, at 1.2 volts (the power amp's input sensitivity), SINAD is (as I recall) -90dB and is 0.003% THD+noise when expressed as a percentage. Not too shabby.

God point, if 0,7V fills my room with the levels I need, is this amp then not so bad. Would love to have this commented so that I may understand. Same with the FFT, how does it degrade, what is the result of a bad filtering.

 

[peng]

@amirm
Since I'm the new kid on the forum here, I wonder if I could ask why we are testing the DAC/pre-amp section at 2 volts which seems to be unrealistically high. Unrealistic because doing the math reveals that at 2 volts delivered to the power amp it is pushing ca. 347 watts at 8 ohms. Since the Marantz is rated at 125 watts at 8 ohms, why would we be testing at so high a level which would so overdrive the power amp if delivered? Real world, at 1.2 volts (the power amp's input sensitivity), SINAD is (as I recall) -90dB and is 0.003% THD+noise when expressed as a percentage. Not too shabby.

2 V is very reasonable for a number of reasons including but not limited to the following:

• A lot of people use their AVRs to drive external power amps rated >200 W into 8 Ohms
• Power amps gain could be lower than the AVR amp's 29 dB, it is not unreasonable to want the ability to drive amp's with 26 dB gain such as Purifi based ones, e.g. the buckeye amps.
• Your example of 347 watts into 8 Ohms is based on gain = 28.41 dB, if it is 26 dB, such as some Rotel amps, and the Purifi amps, you will get just about 200 watts into 8 Ohms.
• Some music has very high dynamic, even >20 dB, so for people with low sensitivity large tower speakers in a large room using 300 W or more powerful power amps would want their preamps to be capable of at least 2 V output without much degradation in SINAD.

1.2 V is fine for those who don't use external amps, but for those who do, then it may or may not be good enough for reasons mentioned above. For me, I don't listen anywhere need reference level, all my tower speakers have sensitivities >87 dB/2.83V/1m and I never sit further than 13 ft so even 1 V would be fine for me as all my power amps have 28 to 28 dB gain but there are others who have much higher requirements.

So 2 V output will give more people more flexibility in choosing their prefer power amplifiers.

Amir is not the only reviewers who test preamps up to 2 V unbalanced, 4 V balanced. Others, such as hometheaterhifi.com, Audioholics.com have been doing the same well before Amir started testing AVRs and AVPs.

Take a look of the linked review:
Denon AVR-X3300W A/V Receiver Measurements and Analysis | Audioholics

In which Gene commented:

"One thing I really love about Denon receivers is they NEVER skimp on their preamp out circuits. Like past models, the AVR-X3300W had an ample amount of drive. I measured a whopping 4.5Vrms unclipped output, which is more than double the voltage needed to make virtually any amplifier reach full rated power. Yamaha please pay attention and step your game up particularly with your AV receivers in this price range that clip above 1.6Vrms. A preamp output of less than 2Vrms is unacceptable in my book."

Gene said about the same when he measured the SR6004, but then that one does not appear to have the HDAMs.

 

[oupee]

God point, if 0,7V fills my room with the levels I need, is this amp then not so bad. Would love to have this commented so that I may understand. Same with the FFT, how does it degrade, what is the result of a bad filtering.

Then there are users who have a cinema connected to a stereo amplifier and stereo speakers via HT bypass. For example me. My stereo amplifier has an input sensitivity of 1.2V.

 

[peng]

God point, if 0,7V fills my room with the levels I need, is this amp then not so bad. Would love to have this commented so that I may understand. Same with the FFT, how does it degrade, what is the result of a bad filtering.

Absolutely, if 0.7V fills your room you are in very decent shape.

The FFT shows you the harmonic contents that made up the THD+N, with SINAD at about 75 dB at 2 V, you can see a lot of 2nd and 3 rd harmonics and quite a bit of high order harmonics too.

As to the "bad filtering", that depends, Marantz apparently select that slow roll off filter intentionally. From what I understand, the effects, even if you consider it "bad" is only pronounce if 44.1 kHz or even 48 kHz sampling rate is used. At higher sampling rate I doubt you can hear any difference, at least not in terms of frequency response.

For analog inputs, the filter thing has no effects at all.

 

[gaussianmist]

2 V is very reasonable for a number of reasons including but not limited to the following:

• A lot of people use their AVRs to drive external power amps rated >200 W into 8 Ohms
• Power amps gain could be lower than the AVR amp's 29 dB, it is not unreasonable to want the ability to drive amp's with 26 dB gain such as Purifi based ones, e.g. the buckeye amps.
• Your example of 347 watts into 8 Ohms is based on gain = 28.41 dB, if it is 26 dB, such as some Rotel amps, and the Purifi amps, you will get just about 200 watts into 8 Ohms.
• Some music has very high dynamic, even >20 dB, so for people with low sensitivity large tower speakers in a large room using 300 W or more powerful power amps would want their preamps to be capable of at least 2 V output without much degradation in SINAD.

1.2 V is fine for those who don't use external amps, but for those who do, then it may or may not be good enough for reasons mentioned above. For me, I don't listen anywhere need reference level, all my tower speakers have sensitivities >87 dB/2.83V/1m and I never sit further than 13 ft so even 1 V would be fine for me as all my power amps have 28 to 28 dB gain but there are others who have much higher requirements.

So 2 V output will give more people more flexibility in choosing their prefer power amplifiers.

Amir is not the only reviewers who test preamps up to 2 V unbalanced, 4 V balanced. Others, such as hometheaterhifi.com, Audioholics.com have been doing the same well before Amir started testing AVRs and AVPs.

Take a look of the linked review:
Denon AVR-X3300W A/V Receiver Measurements and Analysis | Audioholics

In which Gene commented:

"One thing I really love about Denon receivers is they NEVER skimp on their preamp out circuits. Like past models, the AVR-X3300W had an ample amount of drive. I measured a whopping 4.5Vrms unclipped output, which is more than double the voltage needed to make virtually any amplifier reach full rated power. Yamaha please pay attention and step your game up particularly with your AV receivers in this price range that clip above 1.6Vrms. A preamp output of less than 2Vrms is unacceptable in my book."

Gene said about the same when he measured the SR6004, but then that one does not appear to have the HDAMs.

Thank you for your response. But, of course as you may have guessed, I disagree for the following:

"A lot of people use their AVRs to drive external power amps rated >200 W into 8 Ohms.
Power amps gain could be lower than the AVR amp's 29 dB, it is not unreasonable to want the ability to drive amps with 26 dB gain such as Purifi based ones, e.g. the buckeye amps."

These comments are interrelated. There are power amps rated >200 watts whose input sensitivity is 1.2 volts (e.g. QSC GX3, GX5 and GX7). There are also power amps for which 2.0 volts are insufficient to drive to full power (e.g. Rotel RB-1590). But these applications to the Marantz are quite narrow, limited and circumscribed. This Marantz is a receiver and the widespread usage of this product will be as a receiver, not as a pre-amp; so why should the norm or touchstone or standard be 2.0 volts just because 1% of the population of Marantz AVR owners choose to indulge? I'm not quarreling with also testing at 2.0 volts (which in itself is arbitrary), but it shouldn't be the centerpiece since most amps have an input sensitivity of 1.2 volts and this should be the norm.

"Your example of 347 watts into 8 Ohms is based on gain = 28.41 dB..." Thank you for verifying my math. The gain of 28.41 volts was calculated from Marantz's input sensitivity and power output @8 ohms.

"Some music has very high dynamic, even >20 dB, so for people with low sensitivity large tower
speakers in a large room using 300 W or more powerful power amps would want their preamps to be
capable of at least 2 V output without much degradation in SINAD." We're talking about 2 volts rms here.

And a quote from Gene!! "A preamp output of less than 2Vrms is unacceptable in my book." Oh no, a value judgment. What is a value judgment doing in this scientifically rigorous discussion? Audio enthusiasts don't indulge in value judgments, do they? Lol.

 

[bigguyca]

@amirm
Since I'm the new kid on the forum here, I wonder if I could ask why we are testing the DAC/pre-amp section at 2 volts which seems to be unrealistically high. Unrealistic because doing the math reveals that at 2 volts delivered to the power amp it is pushing ca. 347 watts at 8 ohms. Since the Marantz is rated at 125 watts at 8 ohms, why would we be testing at so high a level which would so overdrive the power amp if delivered? Real world, at 1.2 volts (the power amp's input sensitivity), SINAD is (as I recall) -90dB and is 0.003% THD+noise when expressed as a percentage. Not too shabby.

Why buy Marantz when the equivalent Denon AVR has better measurements, uses the same components and boards except the HDAM's, has the essentially the same firmware, has the same warranty, is made by the same manufacturer in the same factories, and costs significantly less? Why is this even a question? Why do people come here and to other forums and push Marantz?

 

[gaussianmist]

Why buy Marantz when the equivalent Denon AVR has better measurements, uses the same components and boards except the HDAM's, has the essentially the same firmware, has the same warranty, is made by the same manufacturer in the same factories, and costs significantly less? Why is this even a question? Why do people come here and to other forums and push Marantz?

My comments did not advocate buying Marantz, but instead addressed the 2-volt standard for measure.

P.S. I'm the proud owner of three Denons

 

[peng]

This Marantz is a receiver and the widespread usage of this product will be as a receiver, not as a pre-amp; so why should the norm or touchstone or standard be 2.0 volts just because 1% of the population of Marantz AVR owners choose to indulge? I'm not quarreling with also testing at 2.0 volts (which in itself is arbitrary), but it shouldn't be the centerpiece since most amps have an input sensitivity of 1.2 volts and this should be the norm.
View attachment 123649

If you, and others who use the AVR's internal amps without any external power amps, then why worry about the pre out measurements anyway, you won't be using them anyway. Just ignore that test!

For those who do use pre outs, all we are saying is, try to get one that would measure well up to at least 2 V, so you will have a larger selection of power amps to choose from, that's just logic, not value judgment at all.

 

[gaussianmist]

If you, and others who use the AVR's internal amps without any external power amps, then why worry about the pre out measurements anyway, you won't be using them anyway. Just ignore that test!

For those who do use pre outs, all we are saying is, try to get one that would measure well up to at least 2 V, so you will have a larger selection of power amps to choose from, that's just logic, not value judgment at all.

O.K.

P.S. The value judgment crack was a joke.

 

[Macfox]

Why buy Marantz when the equivalent Denon AVR has better measurements, uses the same components and boards except the HDAM's, has the essentially the same firmware, has the same warranty, is made by the same manufacturer in the same factories, and costs significantly less? Why is this even a question? Why do people come here and to other forums and push Marantz?

- Looks
- Multichannel pre-in (my only SACD player has 5.1 pre-out and no DSD or multichannel PCM via HDMI)
- Brandname/nostalgia

I still bought an X4700H though... Don't like the porthole display, the Denon was a lot more affordable, has a smaller chassis (=more air around it in the cabinet) and measures better.

 

[AdamG]

- Looks
- Multichannel pre-in (my only SACD player has 5.1 pre-out and no DSD or multichannel PCM via HDMI)
- Brandname/nostalgia

I still bought an X4700H though... Don't like the porthole display, the Denon was a lot more affordable, has a smaller chassis (=more air around it in the cabinet) and measures better.

Welcome Aboard @Macfox.

 

[Macfox]

Welcome Aboard @Macfox.

Thanks! Love the fresh more objective look on audio on this site. The highly dogmatic attitude at other audio sites caused me to lose interest there. I can only hope this site keeps growing!

 

[pedrob]

Dan1210 said:
Personally I find the Marantz sounds warmer than the newer Denons I’ve tried at least with the speakers mentioned, where that is added I don’t know, Hdam, opamps?

It is added in marketing. There is no evidence of warm sound anywhere.

I've never been able to understand what is meant by a warm sound. Is it like a television set where whites are replaced by a tint that is less intense and softer? Personally I like my whites to be white, and if the analogy is appropriate, my sound to be clearer. The same terminology has often been used the describe LPs and tube amps.

 

[Ale Dors]

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Marantz SR7015 "8K" 9.2 channel Home Theater Audio/Video Receiver (AVR). It was purchased new and kindly sent to me by a member. The SR7015 costs US $2,300 from Amazon including Prime shipping.

Not much to say about the design of the SR7015 as it looks like Marantz AV products for years back:

View attachment 86246

Sorry for the tape. I try to keep test unit as close to new condition as possible so did not take it off and operated the unit using its remote.

Here is the back connections:

View attachment 86247

I sent the measurements you are about to see to Marantz (part of Sound United) and they were kind enough to confirm that they agree with their testing.

AVR DAC Audio Measurements
As usual, we start with our dashboard testing the internal DAC using pre-out on the AVR. I run this test two ways: with the amplifiers on and off. Leaving the amps on usually causes them to clip and drag down the performance of the pre-out:

View attachment 86248

You can see signs of the amplifier getting unhappy with very high harmonic distortion content. I put the unit in Pre-amp mode (in Amp Assign submenu) and these were the results:

View attachment 86249

While we get a 5 dB improvement in noise and distortion, the SINAD which represents both is still a very disappointing 80 dB. This drops the SR7105 in the bucket of "poor" performance with respect to AVRs and DACs tested:

View attachment 86250

Denons using similar architecture are far better and indeed class leading in my measurements as you see above.

Sweeping the digital samples to see where the optimal output level is for this AVR we get:

View attachment 86251

We see that the optimal output level is around 0.7 volts which is quite low. If you are buying an external amplifier make sure its sensitive is no higher than 0.7 dB or you will suffer from degradation of the internal DAC and buffer stage in SR7015.

Notice how having the amp on and off makes little difference until you approach 2 volts. The degradation is a function of the buffer/gain stage of the unit. I have indicated the volume level where this degradation occurs (73). So if you are at or below that, you would get significantly better performance (approaching CD's 16 bit dynamic range).

Testing the DAC reconstruction filter shows the same disappointing slow response we see in other Marantz AVRs and Processors:


View attachment 86253

The consequence of this is that if we allow wider bandwidth for the test, THD+N/SINAD suffer greatly compared to the dashboard which uses the audible band:
View attachment 86254

Further evidence is in spectrum of a 10 kHz tone:

View attachment 86255

We see the usual harmonic distortions at multiples of 10 kHz but also very tall spikes at the 10±44.1 kHz as indicated. You won't hear these fortunately but technically it is is not nice to have them.

Another disappointing area is jitter:
View attachment 86257

We tend to think "bits are bits" but clearly the analog output of the unit is impacted depending on which digital source we use: HDMI and Coax. Each has their own induced jitter components which shows lack of design hygiene in producing a clean clock/reference voltage. Fortunately once again audibility is not a problem as levels are quite low.

Linearity is OK for an AVR (but poor for even a cheap desktop DAC):

View attachment 86262

Exponential rise typically indicates noise intruding in the measurement even though I highly filter the output of the AVR for this test.

Finally, 32-tone signal simulating "music:"

View attachment 86263

AVR Amplifier Measurements
I prefer to use analog input for my amplifier measurements because we can then compare the amplifier performance with that of stand-alone amps. But I need to make sure the analog input is not digitized or subjected to other degradations. Fortunately such is the case here if you don't use any digital processing or use Pure mode. Here is analog input:
View attachment 86267

And Coax:
View attachment 86266

Typical of other Denon and Marantz, overall control of distortion and noise is very good:

View attachment 86274

And well above average compared to 120 or so amplifiers of all kinds tested so far:
View attachment 86275

So the rest of the tests will be with analog input starting with frequency response:

View attachment 86270

And signal to noise ratio:

View attachment 86271

That's decent result.

Here is power into 4 ohm:

View attachment 86272

And with allowance for higher distortion and burst power:

View attachment 86273

And 8 ohm:

View attachment 86277

Testing for frequency sensitivity across full power spectrum we get:

View attachment 86278

For a class AB amp, I like to see tighter clustering of the graphs indicating less sensitivity to frequency. As it is, performance drops fair bit at 5 kHz and higher.

Conclusions
Like clockwork, the performance of Marantz SR7015 tracks other Marantz AVRs we have tested. They take the excellent platform used in Denon sister products, and modify them to produce objectively worse performance by good bit. Distortion is sharply increased and extremely slow DAC filtering causes lots of ultrasonic noise, making any intention of playing "high-res" audio moot. Company feels subjectively the modifications improve the sound of the unit. With no controlled listening test demonstrating that, and measurements showing the opposite, I don't think the changes are wise or merited.

Needless to say, I can't recommend the Marantz SR7015. I highly suggest you stick with the Denon counterparts instead.

------------
As always, questions, comments, recommendations, etc. are welcome.

We thought we enjoy the fruits of our labor by making eggplant parmigiana using the tomato sauces we had canned and peppers we had frozen:

View attachment 86282

Oh man did that come out great! The flavor was so much better than canned tomatoes. Had not two, but three helpings of it!

It was also so quick to make given the fact that the tomato sauce was already reduced during the canning process.

Still recovering from shock of expenses for last year so donations are appreciated using: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/how-to-support-audio-science-review.8150/

I created an account in this forum to respectfully leave my personal opinion because it may, or not, help others:
- I don’t understood all the posted analyses and comments here but they surely sounded really impressive;
- I was inclined to buy a Marantz avr before I did read all these audio/processing technical reviews but I ended buying a Denon X3700H afterwards;
- I had several receivers in my life but I never experienced something so vanilla, so transparent, so nothing;
- I won’t even try to express my frustration in words, impossible. I will just state that I put all my money in something that I wouldn’t accept for free;
- Finally, I decided to proceed with my original plan: I bought a Marantz SR7015 and all the distortion mentioned in this forum sounds like heaven to “my” ears.

Bottom line: always judge what is good or bad for “you” and there is no technical test in the world capable to replace an in loco demo.

Cheers,
Alex

 

[gvl]

I had several receivers in my life but I never experienced something so vanilla, so transparent, so nothing;

Is that supposed to mean a negative?

 

[Ale Dors]

Is that supposed to mean a negative?

For my personal taste, yes.

 

[Ale Dors]

Is that supposed to mean a negative?

I never heard my Sonus Faber speakers so unimpressive.

 

[gvl]

For my personal taste, yes.

Did you experiment with Audyssey on the Denon?