Marantz SR6014 AVR Review

[Everett T]

Since X-series Denons are getting the inferior PCM1502 DAC (those manufactured after May 2021), it’ll be interesting how these compare to the SR6015s since Marantz gets to keep the AKM4458 in all of their AVRs. I called Marantz yesterday. They told me of this new policy.

It's all in the implementation. Unless one measures poorly or poorly implemented, I'd bet most wouldn't hear a difference
YMMV

 

[peng]

I've asked around this past week but no one seems to care about the quality of the Denon post-May 2021 PCM1502 DAC units. Either internet "influencers" have all been told to keep it quiet or just maybe nobody cares. I found a guy who tears down AVRs. Maybe he'll reply with an update. I'm returning the Denon I bought last week and getting a Marantz equivalent because I either get the better Denon (pre-May) with the AKM4458 but with a broken HDMI 2.1 port with a dongle solution. Or I get a newer Denon with a working HDMI 2.1 port but with the downgraded PCM1502. If the DACs are really equivalent in specs, Sound United would've equally spread out the AKMs between the Denons and Marantz (and installed PCM1502 DACs in the Marantz units as well). Instead, they're keeping the AKM4458 just for Marantz units. This new policy is what has me concerned.

Who did you call in Denon? I didn't know they would even answer phone calls. If you don't mind, and are allowed to share the info, I would like to talk to the person too. As it is now I do not believe any of this.

By the way, as a matter of facts:

- There is no such thing as PCM1502 DAC that I know of, based on internet search
- If it is the two channel PCM5102 that was also reported a while back by someone, then we know the specs are not equivalent to that of the AK4458, big difference in SINAD
- They did not keep the AK4490 in their $4,999 flag ship AV8805A, someone did a tear down and confirmed its now the ES9010K2M (also a downgrade based on SINAD).

Given the fact that Marantz did replace the AK4490, why would they keep the AK4458 for the AVRs? Is it possible that they are no putting different chips for the X4700H and higher models now?
Also, someone just posted that he got a response from Denon, that the X4700H has the AK4458, who should we believe?

There seem to be too many questions and answers. I think unless someone contact Denon and Marantz in Japan to get the official words, we really don't know what the facts are. Or as mentioned, someone need to open the case, remove a few boards and take some photos.

 

[peng]

It's all in the implementation. Unless one measures poorly or poorly implemented, I'd bet most wouldn't hear a difference
YMMV

Agreed implementation can make a difference, but in this case, it would look like an excuse. I have not seen the schematics of models newer than the SR6014, but if you compare the X4400H, SR7012, you will see their DAC implementation are exactly the same. Also, even if it is implemented differently this time, why would they use a lower spec DAC other than cost?

If it is the reported PCM5102A (I still believe that's fake news confirmed by hearsay but of course I could be wrong), then Denon's claim of "same quality" would be far from being true.., the PCM5102A's THD+N is 13 dB higher.

 

[Everett T]

Agreed implementation can make a difference, but in this case, it would look like an excuse. I have not seen the schematics of models newer than the SR6014, but if you compare the X4400H, SR7012, you will see their DAC implementation are exactly the same. Also, even if it is implemented differently this time, why would they use a lower spec DAC other than cost?

If it is the reported PCM5102A (I still believe that's fake news confirmed by hearsay but of course I could be wrong), then Denon's claim of "same quality" would be far from being true.., the PCM5102A's THD+N is 13 dB higher.

I agree that it's an excuse. Not sure if it is cost, or if it's availability to meet projections. I'll just wait and see which is used, as the usage information seems to be all over the place. I'm considering something like the Lexicon RV6 short term until market returns.

 

[peng]

I agree that it's an excuse. Not sure if it is cost, or if it's availability to meet projections. I'll just wait and see which is used, as the usage information seems to be all over the place. I'm considering something like the Lexicon RV6 short term until market returns.

Again, agreed.. It would be "cost" only if they actually substituted the AKM chip with a cheaper one. At this point no one know for sure which chip is being used on the newer units.

 

[Oski1997]

Who did you call in Denon? I didn't know they would even answer phone calls. If you don't mind, and are allowed to share the info, I would like to talk to the person too. As it is now I do not believe any of this.

By the way, as a matter of facts:

- There is no such thing as PCM1502 DAC that I know of, based on internet search
- If it is the two channel PCM5102 that was also reported a while back by someone, then we know the specs are not equivalent to that of the AK4458, big difference in SINAD
- They did not keep the AK4490 in their $4,999 flag ship AV8805A, someone did a tear down and confirmed its now the ES9010K2M (also a downgrade based on SINAD).

Given the fact that Marantz did replace the AK4490, why would they keep the AK4458 for the AVRs? Is it possible that they are no putting different chips for the X4700H and higher models now?
Also, someone just posted that he got a response from Denon, that the X4700H has the AK4458, who should we believe?

There seem to be too many questions and answers. I think unless someone contact Denon and Marantz in Japan to get the official words, we really don't know what the facts are. Or as mentioned, someone need to open the case, remove a few boards and take some photos.

I know how you feel. This whole issue is convoluted. I'm just 2 weeks new to this whole AVR world. I literally just purchased my first set of speakers and AVR last week. As you can imagine, I've never done more research on a product in my life. I even had to go to Japanese websites using my VPN to read translated responses from Denon to Japanese customers informing them that the post-May 2021 x-series Denons had different DACs (and another different component which I didn't bother to read about). I have spent over 40 hours this past week researching Denons practices, supply chains, CEO speeches/comments. Again, I'm only 2 weeks new to this world. I've had to learn a whole new language. But, for someone new to this world, it is clear that Denon has not been transparent about the changes they have made their x-series ARVs. Usually when companies change manufacturers (like Apple using LG and Samsung Oled screens but not telling us which serial numbers have which manufacturer) it's not a big deal because it doesn't significantly change the experience of the product. But Denon changing a DAC to a lower quality DAC is as significant as Apple changing their A-series processors to a Qualcomm Snapdragon processor and not telling its customers about the changes in efficiency, power, etc. Since I am new to all of this I am not going to get involved (sorry to say). I have already posted my information in a handful of forums and youtube channels with industry "leaders" but no one seems to care enough to do anything with this information. If those individuals who have spent decades keeping AVR companies like Denon informed about customer issues don't care enough to do anything about it, I'm going to assume that this industry is somehow flawed at its core.

I literally just bought an AVR and speakers to have a nice home theater experience watching movies with my friends and family. I never imagined I would have to do this kind of research on supply chain issues (the AKM fire last October),etc to ensure I am getting the value I expect after spending thousands of dollars on an AVR. I am done my friend. I've done my part as a neophyte to this world. I've informed the people I have followed online. It is now up to them to do what they want with this information.

 

[DeepCuttaBeats]

Back in 2018, I purchased several 7.2 channel Atmos receivers from Amazon including the Marantz SR5013, Yamaha Aventage RX-A780 and Denon AVR-X3400H. I needed the receiver to handle both music and movies, with music being the priority. I ended up keeping the Marantz due its performance with 2 channel music. It easily sounded better with music when A/B testing against the other receivers. In 2022, I bought a Denon receiver to try out for movies, and I enjoyed it more than my Marantz. After hearing the Denon, the Marantz sounded slightly boring, less interesting, when watching movies.

My takeaway from these experiences was that Marantz receivers sounds better for music, and Denon sounds better for movies. I've noticed a similar sentiment online when comparing models from these brands against one another.

 

[Emalio]

Does the poor SINAD measurements matter when not using an external amplifer via the preouts? I'm using hdmi input or wifi and using the inbuilt amplifier to run my speakers.

I assumed even the internal amplifier makes use of the preamp and dac so sinad is probably about the same when used digitally without external amplifer?

What would the SINAD be when the internal amplifer is fed a digital signal?

Thanks

 

[peng]

Does the poor SINAD measurements matter when not using an external amplifer via the preouts? I'm using hdmi input or wifi and using the inbuilt amplifier to run my speakers.

I assumed even the internal amplifier makes use of the preamp and dac so sinad is probably about the same when used digitally without external amplifer?

What would the SINAD be when the internal amplifer is fed a digital signal?

Thanks

You can see that if you use it as an AVR, the SINAD is as good as just about any AVP paired with ext amps such as Marantz MM8077, Outlaw's, Monolith's etc., so you are right, in my cases it doesn't matter.