Loxjie A30 Amplifier Review

[Mr.PePe]

Wiim mini +
Loxije A30 vs
Fosi Audio BT20A PRO vs
Aiyima D03

+ Bookshelf speakers

Wchich one and why?

​

 

[antcollinet]

The hissing might be difficult to notice in the bedroom, as I've got a radiator between the speakers and it hisses

That might be the problem : (Seriously - it might)

In any case audible noise from the speakers while playing something quiet (inaudibly low volume, but not with source off as some dacs mute the output when they are not playing anything. Put your ear to the speaker if necessary - but only if you are certain it can't unexpectedly play something loud.

My completely amateur guess would be that the low quality DACs process the signal ... 'less fully' and maybe the highs are not as full, so harsh, ear piercing?

No, that is not how it works. Lower quality DACS may have more noise, and more distortion - but almost certainly inaudble.

If you are hearing "ear piercing" that is almost certainly frequency responce and probably room/speaker interaction.

But then FR regardless whether Amp, or room, is unlikely to be different betwen different inputs.

 

[djrodrigues]

Sorry, but just saying that every DAC or amplifier is audibly the same (aka all sound the same) is a pretty ignorant statement...

 

[CauliflowerEars]

That might be the problem

Turns out the hissing is from something else either in one of the walls or in a different apartment. Either way, I don’t have a headache sitting in the room, so it’s not the reason.

playing something quiet

That’s where John Cage’s 4'33 comes in handy I heard a subtle ‘space’ sound, but nothing more.

No, that is not how it works. Lower quality DACS may have more noise, and more distortion - but almost certainly inaudble.

I have to strongly disagree.
1) From Loxjie, only the Optical input is bearable for me (and those particular speakers/room). The rest gives me fatigue, including USB. BT is terrible (but maybe because I’m using Apple, which is better optimised to their own BT codecs).

2) I’ve tested a range of Topping DACs on my other system with DBR62 and there certainly are big differences.

For me (the particular speakers and room), Loxjie didn’t work. The sound was also not as full as with the other amp. Luckily, a different choice is working really well.

Either way, thank you very much for your super kind help!

 

[antcollinet]

Turns out the hissing is from something else either in one of the walls or in a different apartment. Either way, I don’t have a headache sitting in the room, so it’s not the reason.

That’s where John Cage’s 4'33 comes in handy I heard a subtle ‘space’ sound, but nothing more.

I have to strongly disagree.
1) From Loxjie, only the Optical input is bearable for me (and those particular speakers/room). The rest gives me fatigue, including USB. BT is terrible (but maybe because I’m using Apple, which is better optimised to their own BT codecs).

2) I’ve tested a range of Topping DACs on my other system with DBR62 and there certainly are big differences.

For me (the particular speakers and room), Loxjie didn’t work. The sound was also not as full as with the other amp. Luckily, a different choice is working really well.

Either way, thank you very much for your super kind help!

Have any of your dac comparisons been scientifically valid - or have they all been sighted. Cognitive bias can and regularly does create significant percieved audio differences where non exist. I don't know this for certain, but I'd expect it can also cause listening fatigue from those percieved differences - placebo effect can after all mitigate real medical symptoms.

Turns out the hissing is from something else either in one of the walls or in a different apartment. Either way, I don’t have a headache sitting in the room, so it’s not the reason.

I still wouldn't rule it out - it might be that listening to music "past" the noise is what causes the fatigue.
(again speculation on my part)

 

[antcollinet]

Sorry, but just saying that every DAC or amplifier is audibly the same (aka all sound the same) is a pretty ignorant statement...

No-one says that.

What is said, is that Amps/Dacs whose defects measure below the level of audibilty, (and for amps when used within their operating envelope - ie not clipping) will sound the same or sufficently so for the differences to be meaningless.

And it does not come from a position of ignorance, but the exact opposite: from one of scientfic and egnineering knowhow. Exactly what this site is about.

 

[CauliflowerEars]

Cognitive bias can and regularly does create significant percieved audio differences where non exist.

The differences I heard were big enough to describe. Some sounds just didn’t exist with a lower quality DAC. I’ve described them here:
Post in thread 'Topping E30 II DAC Review'
https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/topping-e30-ii-dac-review.36028/post-1547311

it might be that listening to music "past" the noise is what causes the fatigue.

Well, on Loxjie’s optical input and with the other amp, I didn’t have any discomfort, so this variable can be ruled out.
(the hissing sounds like running water, most probably to a radiator, it’s quite muffled, so probably not high pitch enough).

A year ago my listening was up to 18kHz.
Maybe this also makes a difference.

 

[antcollinet]

The differences I heard were big enough to describe. Some sounds just didn’t exist with a lower quality DAC. I’ve described them here:
Post in thread 'Topping E30 II DAC Review'
https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/topping-e30-ii-dac-review.36028/post-1547311

We know that our hearing is subject to cognitive bias (call it placebo effect, or expectation bias if you like). What we hear is impacted by what we know, what we believe, how we feel, our life experiences, what we see etc etc. No-one is immune to this if they are human - it is how we are built. In fact we would be unable to function if our senses were not filtered by our subconscious brain. Everyone is subject to this, it happens at the subconscious level, and it is not possible to avoid it - even when we are aware it is happening.

All those differences you describe can come from cognitive bias. The only way to know if they are there for real is to test level matched and blind with at least 10 repeats.

 

[CauliflowerEars]

We know that our hearing is subject to cognitive bias

Sure, the overall positive feelings can be biased, but:

With the Loxjie, I really wanted to buy it, so my bias was towards it, but it physically gave me headaches.

With the DACs, I didn’t just make up the additional sounds that appeared with the E50, especially Daft Punk’s modulation.

 

[antcollinet]

With the Loxjie, I really wanted to buy it, so my bias was towards it, but it physically gave me headaches.

As I said - it is subconcious - it has nothing to do with your concious expectations.

With the DACs, I didn’t just make up the additional sounds that appeared with the E50, especially Daft Punk’s modulation.

It's not about "making them up". The bias process though actully modifies the sound between your ears and the conscious brain.

Here is an example of such a bias.. It is not the same as the biases we experience in audio because it is part of our speech processing. But it is used because it is easy to demonstrate in an unambiguous way, how even though the sound does not change, the sound we perceive is completely changed to a different phoneme - simply based on what we see.

Even when you know how your brain is being fooled - it is still fooled.





 

[djrodrigues]

Regarding both DAC and amplification, please try and tell me that you hear absolutely no difference here:

There is no defined line between what is placebo and what is not. That line we make up for ourselves.

A person who is adement on only looking at a FR graph to distinguish devices will also be biased to disregard certain things.

 

[somebodyelse]

There is no defined line between what is placebo and what is not. That line we make up for ourselves.

If you can't tell the difference in a properly controlled listening test (level matched, blinded etc.) then any difference you hear sighted is in your head not in the equipment.

A person who is adement on only looking at a FR graph to distinguish devices will also be biased to disregard certain things.

Correct in that expectation bias in sighted tests can make you think there is no difference when there really is one that you can hear in a properly controlled listening test.

 

[antcollinet]

Regarding both DAC and amplification, please try and tell me that you hear absolutely no difference here:

Yes I can hear a difference.

And guess what - by placing the kit with the top surface at a differnet height between the speakers, he will have changed the reflections from the speakers.

Worse the recording postion is changed significantly for the two devices. The recording device is significanlty closer for the yamaha recordings . This will have a much (much) greater impact than any differences between amplifcation, as modes and nulls will be different accross the spectrum.

Even the toe in of the speakers changes relative to the recording position (it is possible to see the inner side of the right speaker for the Yamha recordings - not so for the others. Another significant impact for the sound.

God knows what other changes have ocoured between the two sets of recordings, because he describes nothing about the test setup, including any precautions to avoid changes in the environment such as the ones noted above.

If he wanted to check differences between amplifiers it would have been much better to record the electrical signal at the speaker terminals - that then wouldn't be susceptible to all the problems and difficulties with getting consistent recording from speakers.

 

[Mike710]

Hi,

Would the below adapter work to convert the USB to Toslink so I could feed It to the A30 Toslink Input? I would be using the USB from a PC as a audio source.

It does look like the adapter Is already doing It´s own conversion so I am not sure If that´s a good Idea, as once the signal gets to the A30 optical Input It will be converted again?
https://www.amazon.es/dp/B0B2DBGKL3...017IEZOC&psc=1&ref_=list_c_wl_gv_ov_lig_pi_dp

Gifting a A30 to the wife this Christmas and planning ahead. Also, I am not sure If the A30 will work well with the Polk XT15´s from some reports I red hear. Will find out In a week.

Thanks

 

[antcollinet]

Would the below adapter work to convert the USB to Toslink so I could feed It to the A30 Toslink Input? I would be using the USB from a PC as a audio source.

Yes that will work.

It does look like the adapter Is already doing It´s own conversion

Not sure what you mean by that - the adapter doesn't convert anything. It takes the data from USB and packages it into toslink format.

 

[Whodiini]

Wiim mini +
Loxije A30 vs
Fosi Audio BT20A PRO vs
Aiyima D03

+ Bookshelf speakers

Wchich one and why?

​

I have Wiim Pro + Loxjie A30 + triangle Borea Br02, currently on sale lowest price ever $150 per pair! (i think adorama).

I run the Wiim Coax out to Loxjie. Sounds great. Then I tweaked it because location of speakers. Got on sale, a Martin logan Unison for $100 and used it as input to the Wimm Pro and mapped the room response, then used the 4 band parametric equalizer on the WIIM to remove the most offensive room nodes and do a slight correction for the reduced upper treble on the Borea. This is my home office system and sounds great, I have very picky ears and it sounds full, rich, clean, not bloated bass, nor an accentuated treble exciting sound that wears on you. I have 2 other hi end systems at home and this is not embarrassed by them. The only minor issues are the bass is not as deep (I own subwoofers) and it is not as detailed as my other systems. It is fine as I am supposed to be working in the office and dont want a system so good I stop working! For the price, I havent found anything that sounds close to as good and as easy to use (Wiim is great).

 

[Mike710]

Yes that will work.



Not sure what you mean by that - the adapter doesn't convert anything. It takes the data from USB and packages it into toslink format.

Ok thank you @antcollinet

Just wanted to be sure, as some USB converters act like external sound cards, and the description does mention that It supports hi-res audio up to192 kHz/24 bits. My bad then, sorry for the confusion.

Cheers and happy holidays.

 

[Zek]

as some USB converters act like external sound cards

Usually it means DAC if it is a USB converter, that is, a digital to analog converter.
If it's just a USB to toslink (SPDIF) dongle, then the digital USB signal is just translated to an optical digital signal without conversion to an analog output signal.

 

[Mike710]

Usually it means DAC if it is a USB converter, that is, a digital to analog converter.
If it's just a USB to toslink (SPDIF) dongle, then the digital USB signal is just translated to an optical digital signal without conversion to an analog output signal.

Thanks, yes I agree. But I have seen all sorts of weird translations on some of Amazon´s product descriptions, even some that are way off on what the product really Is.

 

[Zek]

But I have seen all sorts of weird translations

We have a saying: "And on the fence it says p...", but that's not it.