Large vs small speakers

[Goodman]

Are speakers measurements the all be all? Can you choose a speaker by the great measurement done by Amir. Most speakers reviewed and measured on this sight are either 2 way desktop or stand mount and the occasional skinny towers. How relevant would the number be if you measured and compared these to lets say speakers with 4 12inch woofers 2mids and 12 tweeters? What measurements are going to show the impact of the air moved by 8 woofer?

 

[kongwee]

Very likely very irregular compare to 8361A. But the SPL toward you is, WOW.

 

[TheBatsEar]

Are speakers measurements the all be all? Can you choose a speaker by the great measurement done by Amir.

Of course there are also optics, price and so on. But if they don't have good distortion and directivity, i move on.
Frequency response isn't that important to me, i use DSP to fix it. Sadly you cant fix distortion or directivity with DSP.

Most speakers reviewed and measured on this sight are either 2 way desktop or stand mount and the occasional skinny towers.

Large speakers are harder to ship and handle.

How relevant would the number be if you measured and compared these to lets say speakers with 4 12inch woofers 2mids and 12 tweeters? What measurements are going to show the impact of the air moved by 8 woofer?

In general? Sensitivity would go up, distortion would go down a little, max SPL would go up. Directivity would probably get worse.
Price would go up as well

Do you have a specific large speaker on your radar?

 

[Goodman]

Of course there are also optics, price and so on. But if they don't have good distortion and directivity, i move on.
Frequency response isn't that important to me, i use DSP to fix it. Sadly you cant fix distortion or directivity with DSP.


Large speakers are harder to ship and handle.


In general? Sensitivity would go up, distortion would go down a little, max SPL would go up. Directivity would probably get worse.
Price would go up as well

Do you have a specific large speaker on your radar?

Tekton Encore new speakers or Infinity Large vintage.

 

[TheBatsEar]

That is serious hardware.

Did you find any meaningful measurements to compare them? Directivity and distortion would be my top interest.
Not sure how old those Inifitys are, but consider aging of network parts, woofer sourrounds and ferro fluids.

Honestly, even if i had the money, i would rather get two smaller pairs. A pair of fat ATCs to look at and brag about in the living room and a pair of Genelecs to have the best of the best in terms of distortion, directivity and FR in the office.

 

[Beershaun]

I would steer away from vintage speakers if you are looking for speakers that follow current audio science and research (Amir's criteria). Also vintage stuff will have degraded materials that would need to be replaced and repaired. Surrounds, crossover components, etc..

 

[Doodski]

I would steer away from vintage speakers if you are looking for speakers that follow current audio science and research (Amir's criteria). Also vintage stuff will have degraded materials that would need to be replaced and repaired. Surrounds, crossover components, etc..

I can't count the times I've seen "vintage" "high end" "reference speakers" being sold in the audio sales websites for high prices as if they where 5 years old. It's not good.

 

[Beershaun]

Yep.my mother recently wanted to hook back up a set of JBL floor standing speakers she bought new in the late 80's, when she looked at them they were shot. Surrounds completely rotted away and corrosion on the binding posts. She ended up getting a new pair of elac dbr62's and she couldn't be happier with their performance.

 

[DanielT]

 

[DanielT]

What measurements are going to show the impact of the air moved by 8 woofer?

Stroke length (x-max) plus surface driving diaphragm provides air pump capability. Then it is mostly a mathematical exercise. Does not matter many smaller drivers or a large element. That if we are talking about subwoofer frequencies (quantity)

Here you can count:

48 pcs:

Dayton Audio - ND91-8 3-1/2" Aluminum Cone Full-Range Driver 8 Ohm

ND91-8 3-1/2" Aluminum Cone Full-Range Driver 8 Ohm

www.daytonaudio.com

vs

2 pcs:

Dayton Audio - UM18-22 18" Ultimax DVC Subwoofer 2 ohm Per Coil

UM18-22 18" Ultimax DVC Subwoofer 2 ohm Per Coil

www.daytonaudio.com

What gives the most bass, SPL, around 100 Hz? You can add, quality criterion. Before it starts to distort too much and becomes a nuisance to the ears.

Incidentally, ND91-8 3-1/2 is used here:

Murphy's Corner Line Array project

After having read many forum threads here and elsewhere I have decided to move forward with a Murphy's Corner Line Array project in my living room I thought that I would share my progress here in this thread as regularly as possible The design idea: The original MCLA design has a 45 degree...

audiosciencereview.com

For sound quality: FR, distortion and power on elements / drivers must then be weighed in.

Edit:
The higher up in frequency the less radiant, omni. Then, for a good speaker design, other parameters are required to have a well-sounding speaker (with several elements that take care of different frequencies)

Wikiwand - Loudspeaker measurement

Loudspeaker measurement is the practice of determining the behaviour of loudspeakers by measuring various aspects of performance. This measurement is especially important because loudspeakers, being transducers, have a higher level of distortion than other audio system components used in...

www.wikiwand.com

By the way, I like big speakers (with good HiFi sound / quality). How big? That is, in my case, governed by how thick the wallet is, the size of the combined listening room / living room. I think despite everything that it is nice to have space so I can have some some furniture was in that room. Plus what neighbors think of bass from hell.

Sprinkling in lots of black large subwoofer cubes that are ugly as beatings is perhaps not the most appealing, purely aesthetic either. Sound-wise certainly superb but .... as usual trade-offs.

 

[Goodman]

I will forward this video to Wilson Audio.

 

[Goodman]

That is serious hardware.

Did you find any meaningful measurements to compare them? Directivity and distortion would be my top interest.
Not sure how old those Inifitys are, but consider aging of network parts, woofer sourrounds and ferro fluids.

Honestly, even if i had the money, i would rather get two smaller pairs. A pair of fat ATCs to look at and brag about in the living room and a pair of Genelecs to have the best of the best in terms of distortion, directivity and FR in the office.

Fat ATC's would be great except for the price. Genelecs are really mid-field headphones.

 

[DanielT]

I will forward this video to Wilson Audio.

He he.

Then you need an amp. The question is, how much power?

Edit:
Speaking of how much power:

How much power does an amplifier need with this type of range of dynamic music

Feel free to use this calculator. Add sensitivity to the speaker and then tell which effect you have chosen and why. Weigh in that you want some headroom. http://www.mh-audio.nl/Calculators/REAP.html You can select music from this list. Or something else, but in that case tell us how you...

audiosciencereview.com

 

[raistlin65]

Are speakers measurements the all be all? Can you choose a speaker by the great measurement done by Amir. Most speakers reviewed and measured on this sight are either 2 way desktop or stand mount and the occasional skinny towers. How relevant would the number be if you measured and compared these to lets say speakers with 4 12inch woofers 2mids and 12 tweeters? What measurements are going to show the impact of the air moved by 8 woofer?

No matter what tower you buy, it's bass output is not going to be a substitute for a good subwoofer or two.

If you are looking for speakers that can put out a lot of volume, Power Sound Audio makes large driver speakers with high sensitivity. But they are meant to be used with ta good sub to handle the bass

Loudspeakers

Discover the best Home Audio Subwoofers and Speaker Systems from Power Sound Audio. Designed and assembled in Ohio.

www.powersoundaudio.com

 

[Prana Ferox]

What measurements are going to show the impact of the air moved by 8 woofer?

Sound pressure levels. All things considered, more driver surface area is going to get you more volume, especially more volume per watt.

More driver area also introduces a variety of directivity problems, beaming, comb filtering, etc. That can be used to a sort of advantage - like in the line arrays in @DanielT 's post above - but it requires sophistication for a fairly limited application, well beyond 'just wire all the drivers together'. In PA applications, where you need to push SPL to large open areas, this sophistication goes to both the location of the arrays and the DSP for combining and power shading them, otherwise standing in the wrong place sounds like hot garbage.

There are valid reasons monkey coffins, 5-way speakers with drivers splayed all over the baffle, and other similar visual complexities have gone the way of the dodo. (And not just that they don't fit in with modern decor, which is also a common problem.) There are also reasons why stuff like the Tektons haven't been done widely or long before, and it's not that there's some new secret sauce that's just recently discovered.

 

[DanielT]

I'm thinking of building some fun "rock and roll" speakers with high sensitivity. The purpose is not directly "high end" but more like a fun project. This thread addresses some exciting high-sensitivity drivers. More in the PA direction so they may not dig deeper into frequency (may need quite large boxes, plus possibly supplemented with a subwoofer) but it's always fun to think about.

A little about different measurement standards in the thread, you can skip it if you are not interested in that.

Speaker element power, interpret data. AES 2-1984 vs IEC standard 60268

Benefit from AES 2-1984 vs IEC standard 60268 plus information on Maximum Power Handling? This is how AES 2-1984 is defined: The existing standard AES 2-1984 defines the peak displacement Xmax in 4.3.2 Large-Signal Parameters: "(2) Voice-coil peak displacement at which the" linearity "of the...

audiosciencereview.com

Edit:
All these threads about bass, always an interesting topic (even for me):

What's a realistic expectation for bass performance?

So I've got all the ingredients, two neutral mains, two subs, dsp for them all, a decent selection of porous absorbers up to 6 inches thick, two 4' tall triangle shaped corner traps. It's all in a 15-16'x20+ ft room (the back wall isn't really there, it goes into other rooms. I am super happy...

audiosciencereview.com

 

[TheBatsEar]

Genelecs are really mid-field headphones.

 

[Goodman]

Sound pressure levels. All things considered, more driver surface area is going to get you more volume, especially more volume per watt.

More driver area also introduces a variety of directivity problems, beaming, comb filtering, etc. That can be used to a sort of advantage - like in the line arrays in @DanielT 's post above - but it requires sophistication for a fairly limited application, well beyond 'just wire all the drivers together'. In PA applications, where you need to push SPL to large open areas, this sophistication goes to both the location of the arrays and the DSP for combining and power shading them, otherwise standing in the wrong place sounds like hot garbage.

There are valid reasons monkey coffins, 5-way speakers with drivers splayed all over the baffle, and other similar visual complexities have gone the way of the dodo. (And not just that they don't fit in with modern decor, which is also a common problem.) There are also reasons why stuff like the Tektons haven't been done widely or long before, and it's not that there's some new secret sauce that's just recently discovered.

Of course, you're right about the directivity and comb filtering problems.
There are some excellent monkey coffins with multiple drivers.
Modern decor is the biggest problem, that is why you have skinny columns with complex bass solutions where as a 12 inch or 15 inch driver would do a better job at less cost. There is no new secret sauce but tons of recipes with old and new chefs.

 

[DanielT]

Sound pressure levels. All things considered, more driver surface area is going to get you more volume, especially more volume per watt.

More driver area also introduces a variety of directivity problems, beaming, comb filtering, etc. That can be used to a sort of advantage - like in the line arrays in @DanielT 's post above - but it requires sophistication for a fairly limited application, well beyond 'just wire all the drivers together'. In PA applications, where you need to push SPL to large open areas, this sophistication goes to both the location of the arrays and the DSP for combining and power shading them, otherwise standing in the wrong place sounds like hot garbage.

There are valid reasons monkey coffins, 5-way speakers with drivers splayed all over the baffle, and other similar visual complexities have gone the way of the dodo. (And not just that they don't fit in with modern decor, which is also a common problem.) There are also reasons why stuff like the Tektons haven't been done widely or long before, and it's not that there's some new secret sauce that's just recently discovered.

Of course, you're right about the directivity and comb filtering problems.
There are some excellent monkey coffins with multiple drivers.
Modern decor is the biggest problem, that is why you have skinny columns with complex bass solutions where as a 12 inch or 15 inch driver would do a better job at less cost. There is no new secret sauce but tons of recipes with old and new chefs.

New times, new ideals. Wide baffles provide natural baffle support. Narrow baffle lower efficiency, and it must be well designed to work with/go togheter with a sensible FR. Disadvantage lower dB is sacrificed on that altar. Maybe with today's increasingly low distorting elements so, if they have enough power, it's resolved. It is possible to turn on power and pure amp power has become cheaper over the years.

Advantage regardning floor-to-ceiling line speakers. It alleviates the problems with floor and ceiling reflexes.Disadvantage, or the challenge, a lot of EQ is needed, see page 5 and onwards in the thread. Much about EQ.Attached image, a shading solution but who can have a pair of such speakers placed in a combined living room / listening room. That would look totally weird.

Murphy's Corner Line Array project

What listening distance will you have? It will dip in higher frequencies, do you think of EQa? With a straight line source of limited length, problems are obtained because the frequency response becomes distance dependent and also when the receiver position is above the top point of the source...

audiosciencereview.com

Speaking of the aesthetic. Here is a smart solution constructed by a knowledgeable, professional person. One who calls himself a Technical Consultant in acoustics and audio technology. A complete solution. All drawings of the construction, with dimensions, are in the thread. I attach pictures of this under the sofa subwoofer. Also how Mr. DIY (not my subwoofer) reinforced the sofa after he got enough of ass /scrotum
massage of the subwoofer.

faktiskt.io • Visa tråd - Soffsub

Edit:
For a DIY speaker, so much easier with a sufficiently wide baffle with really rounded corners, partly for this with baffle step compensation plus round corners for diffraction, in the style of Heco's design, see attached picture (preferably even rounder corners). If I were to DIY speakers, I would start with something similar. KISS.

With sensible waveguide for the tweeters. Braces and belts, just in case.

Please note, I'm a beginner at DIY speakers. That was a bit basic I picked up. Then getting everything together so it really gets good is another ball game. But there are many knowledgeable and experienced people here you can ask.

For those who are interested in working with baffles:

Home of the Edge

 

[Katji]

View attachment 195694

LOL ...we should have a list of these, for quick use, quick links. LOL