• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required as is 20 years of participation in forums (not all true). Come here to have fun, be ready to be teased and not take online life too seriously. We now measure and review equipment for free! Click here for details.

LA Audio Show 2017: Day 3

Cosmik

Major Contributor
Joined
Apr 24, 2016
Messages
3,075
Likes
1,972
Location
UK
#21
Always very interesting to see what counts as good demo tracks in the audiophile world. To me, they wouldn't be good demos...

Most of them, to my mind, are '2D' and have a hard edged over-the-top this-is-audiophile-music 'detail' to them. Or they are jazz, which again I don't think makes for a good demo. I really couldn't tell how good a system was with most of these tracks.

I cite Elton John's Rocket Man as a contrast to these demo tracks. It was put together in a studio, obviously, but it has warmth and room-scale (not artificial cathedral) 'ambience', detail and a sense of real space (no pun intended). Classical, of course, is an even bigger test of a system, and I don't mean polite string quartets or harpsichord solos.

I think we need to hear how a system handles voices and real instruments going from quiet to loud in a natural, organic way. We need to hear an organically-shifting composite of many different types of instruments to reveal system 'formants', and we need complexity to reveal intermodulation distortion. Typical audiophile music goes the opposite way - I wonder why?

My only problem with using the actual Rocket Man track is that the music is so good I wouldn't want to waste it listening to horrible systems at shows:).
 
Last edited:
OP
amirm

amirm

Founder/Admin
Staff Member
CFO (Chief Fun Officer)
Joined
Feb 13, 2016
Messages
25,941
Likes
57,734
Location
Seattle Area
Thread Starter #22
Always very interesting to see what counts as good demo tracks in the audiophile world. To me, they wouldn't be good demos...
To the extent you see me praising the track, it means that it was a very good demo track to me. Please note that the youtube demos are not proper representation. Please play them on your system using Tidal or CD to get a better feel for what they do. To the extent you don't hear your system sounding good on them, and I mention that they are common demo tracks, then something is amiss.
 
OP
amirm

amirm

Founder/Admin
Staff Member
CFO (Chief Fun Officer)
Joined
Feb 13, 2016
Messages
25,941
Likes
57,734
Location
Seattle Area
Thread Starter #23
Some more MBL tracks.

Requiem: Pie Jesu (Pie Jesu) by The Turtle Creek Chorale & The Dallas Women's Chorus. https://shz.am/t66671308

Just the right type of music for the MBL speakers.
 
OP
amirm

amirm

Founder/Admin
Staff Member
CFO (Chief Fun Officer)
Joined
Feb 13, 2016
Messages
25,941
Likes
57,734
Location
Seattle Area
Thread Starter #25
MBL

Take The "A" Train by Duke Ellington. https://shz.am/t10281831

Very nice. More focused image than the typical one I hear from MBLs.
 
OP
amirm

amirm

Founder/Admin
Staff Member
CFO (Chief Fun Officer)
Joined
Feb 13, 2016
Messages
25,941
Likes
57,734
Location
Seattle Area
Thread Starter #27
MBL

Footloose (Live) by Kenny Loggins. https://shz.am/t68672089

Reel to Reel tape. Excellent. Lots of detail. Again, big sound that fits the speakers well.
 
OP
amirm

amirm

Founder/Admin
Staff Member
CFO (Chief Fun Officer)
Joined
Feb 13, 2016
Messages
25,941
Likes
57,734
Location
Seattle Area
Thread Starter #28
Evolution Acoustics Speaker, darTZeel amplifiers, Wave Kinetics, Ampex Reel to Reel tape drive, Durand Tonearm, Wave Kinetics
093A0019.jpg
093A0020.jpg


Now this is a crossover:
093A0021.jpg
093A0022.jpg
093A0023.jpg


These Ampex Reel to Reel tape drivers are so plain. They would give a heart attack to any industrial designer at Apple! :D
093A0025.jpg
 
OP
amirm

amirm

Founder/Admin
Staff Member
CFO (Chief Fun Officer)
Joined
Feb 13, 2016
Messages
25,941
Likes
57,734
Location
Seattle Area
Thread Starter #29
Evolution Acoustics speaker:
It Don't Mean A Thing (If It Ain't Got That Swing;Live) by Ray Brown Trio. https://shz.am/t60946506

Dynamic track. Point source in each speaker though with a shallow image.
 
OP
amirm

amirm

Founder/Admin
Staff Member
CFO (Chief Fun Officer)
Joined
Feb 13, 2016
Messages
25,941
Likes
57,734
Location
Seattle Area
Thread Starter #30
Evolution Acoustics

So What by Miles Davis. https://shz.am/t10445671


Tape. Excellent. Lots of air. Good imaging from side to center.
 

DonH56

Technical Expert
Technical Expert
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 15, 2016
Messages
4,079
Likes
6,153
Location
Monument, CO
#31
Complex crossover, and notice they oriented the components to minimize interaction, good job!
 

LarsS

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 23, 2016
Messages
934
Likes
779
Location
Sweden, Stockholm
#33
Evolution Acoustics Speaker, darTZeel amplifiers, Wave Kinetics, Ampex Reel to Reel tape drive, Durand Tonearm, Wave Kinetics
View attachment 7519 View attachment 7520

Now this is a crossover:
View attachment 7521 View attachment 7522 View attachment 7523

These Ampex Reel to Reel tape drivers are so plain. They would give a heart attack to any industrial designer at Apple! :D View attachment 7518
Make a cut below third driver from top and you've got my second setup speakers, very power hungry. Still need to find right amp for them.

upload_2017-6-15_10-22-0.png
 

DonH56

Technical Expert
Technical Expert
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 15, 2016
Messages
4,079
Likes
6,153
Location
Monument, CO
#34
Is it just a crossover or multiple filters on top of that to shape the response of the drivers/overall response?
Well, of course I don't know, but I tend to treat the entire network as the crossover, probably because to me a crossover is just another name for a filter network that happens to combine LPF, HPF, and sometimes BPF elements. At one time I created a filter using an initial Bessel-Thomson stage to get good time response, followed by a high-order Butterworth (I think, may have been Chebyshev) stage to provide steeper out-of-band rolloff. I needed good in-band pulse response, couldn't tolerate the in-band phase shift of most high-order filters, and had wide enough transition band that I could get away with a hybrid architecture. But, I just called the whole mess a "filter".

Blathering aside, it looks fairly complex, so may indeed provide additional shaping of the transfer function beyond just the usual crossover function.

Besides, in your post you said, and I quote: "Now this is a crossover:" -- so there! :D

I do like Revel's idea of splitting the crossover into separate boards to better isolate frequency components and reduce coupling/interaction among crossover sections.
 
OP
amirm

amirm

Founder/Admin
Staff Member
CFO (Chief Fun Officer)
Joined
Feb 13, 2016
Messages
25,941
Likes
57,734
Location
Seattle Area
Thread Starter #36
Make a cut below third driver from top and you've got my second setup speakers, very power hungry. Still need to find right amp for them.

View attachment 7527
How do you like their sound overall?

As for amp, my choice would be some kind of high power class D.
 
OP
amirm

amirm

Founder/Admin
Staff Member
CFO (Chief Fun Officer)
Joined
Feb 13, 2016
Messages
25,941
Likes
57,734
Location
Seattle Area
Thread Starter #38
VSA/VAC

I Don't Know Why (I Just Do) by Dean Martin. https://shz.am/t10043138

Imaging there but giant in size. Dean Martin was for example 3 to 4 times real life size.
 
OP
amirm

amirm

Founder/Admin
Staff Member
CFO (Chief Fun Officer)
Joined
Feb 13, 2016
Messages
25,941
Likes
57,734
Location
Seattle Area
Thread Starter #39
VSA/VAC
Symphonic Dances: Non Allegro by Minnesota Orchestra. https://shz.am/t56851258

Pretty impressive opening dynamics. Sounds like large speakers with huge scale that these speakers are.
 
OP
amirm

amirm

Founder/Admin
Staff Member
CFO (Chief Fun Officer)
Joined
Feb 13, 2016
Messages
25,941
Likes
57,734
Location
Seattle Area
Thread Starter #40

Similar threads

Top Bottom