Klipsch Heresy IV Speaker Review

[Lorenzo74]

A particular YouTube review who has tens of thousands of views per video (I won't mention his name or link him here because I don't want to give him the business) literally said this about the Heresy IV:

a compilation of reviewers that loves them...

great Steve G. he got it. "the bass is not for Bass heads..." go to14:00

Zero F. praised them... i believe in good faith but not supporting with any measurements.

and here...

even "Top Laudspeaker 2020" and right after in the comments you have the "get them here https://amzn.toXXXXXXXX

--> to High Fidelity or NOT to high Fidelity? this is the Question...

 

[richard12511]

Many reviewers havwe commented on this. If your initial experience of a product was negative, why would they want to waste their time on a complete review?

To help people watching your channel make a more informed purchasing decision? Isn’t that kinda the point of reviews? Negative reviews are far more valuable than positive ones, imo. If I was in the market and seriously looking at purchasing this speaker, a negative review like this would be greatly appreciated. Would save me $3,000 that I could then use to purchase a much better speaker.

A reviewer that only posts positive reviews is a bit suspect. Makes me think they’re more in it for the money, and they care less about actually helping their viewers.

Reviews should be more about helping the consumer than they are about helping the manufacturer, at least that's my opinion.

 

[hardisj]

I checked the Klipsch-Forum and was there some some s*hit there? I thought they conversation was pretty civil.

Some stuff said to me here that should have gotten people banned. Even according to the regulars.

https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/klipsch-heresy-iv-objective-speaker-review.1028801/

 

[richard12511]

Are you talking about 845 tube amps here, or tube amps like in every single picture on the Klipsch Heresy IV website that shows an amp?

If so, Genelec speakers are not going to work properly in this application. Genelec speakers are powered active speakers, so they have amps in them. They don't work with external amps.

If so, KEF speakers, checked a couple, 87 dB, 88dB, yeah, no thanks.

If so, Revel, good luck with those, M106 isn't sensitive, F328Be, M105, and F208 all have dips in impedance that are easily outperformed by the Heresy's design, obviously considering the tube amp application.

I had some of the same incorrect thoughts about sensitivity being key, which is part of why I tried Focal Aria 948s. They are rated 92.5 dB, probably pretty accurately by Focal. Unfortunately, with broad 2.5 ohm impedance dip around 80-100 Hz, they hardly work at all with my amp that is rated 21W per channel. I don't think I can get 2 watts with the Focals before the amp starts falling apart because the speakers are not designed for a tube amp. With Heresys, I can crank the volume and probably am getting more than 10X the power, due to the difference in impedance, maybe 100X the sound pressure and 4X the apparent volume. I've actually tried all of this too, and not just looked at some charts.

No one is disputing you can get flatter frequency response and more transparency for a fraction of the price. I'm sure iLoud MTM will crush Heresy if that's what you want. iLoud MTM can't however, work with a radio transmission vacuum tube to amplify and reproduce sound, if that is your objective.

Most of the people buying these know what they are getting and will probably be happy with them. If that's not your thing, don't buy them. I wouldn't pair any of the Heritage speakers with anything but pre-1975 vintage gear or tubes. If you buy an AHB2 and a TOTL Topping DAC, and wire up some Heresys for the most realistic sound reproduction possible, yes, that's silly, and you could have done astronomically better at meeting that objective for $800.

My solution for now has been to plug a solid state amp into the Focal speakers, and things are going nicely. I might Hook the Heresys back up to the 845 amp because that was actually working and I could just have that as an additional option...

What about the passive JBL XR835 speakers that @cistercian uses? Not only are they much better party and tube amp speakers(8ohm, 95dB efficiency, with 22dB more max output than the Heresy IV), but they also measure much better, and are $400 cheaper to boot . Only downside would be the looks, though I personally think they look better(can't stand the vintage wood look, I'm weird, I know ).

 

[richard12511]

Here is my untreated room measurement with the SVS sub crossover at 60hz. The mic was about 4meters away from the speakers. Both speakers measured at the same time. ( I had no idea what I was doing, but this was the outcome ) View attachment 96652

In room measurements unfortunately don't really tell us much of anything about the speaker. That's why Erin goes through so much trouble to get the anechoic measurements.

 

[terasankka]

Luckily I don't have to listen to these in anechoic chamber.

 

[Ericglo]

Some stuff said to me here that should have gotten people banned. Even according to the regulars.

https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/klipsch-heresy-iv-objective-speaker-review.1028801/

I didn't think it was to bad until later in the thread. There were only a couple of malcontents.

Interesting you started a thread about discussing a review with a manufacturer. Most of the guys bashing you said this speaker needs a tube amp. Does Klipsch say it needs a tube amp? If not, then I find it humorous that one has to "search the internet" to understand how to use them.

 

[Steve Dallas]

Some stuff said to me here that should have gotten people banned. Even according to the regulars.

https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/klipsch-heresy-iv-objective-speaker-review.1028801/

Don't sweat it Erin. You are doing yeoman's work--even as some people hate you for challenging their stigmata. (It must be terrible to realize you are stuck with objectively lousy speakers, because you believe you like objectively lousy amplifiers, and need high sensitivity transducers to make that sort of work.)

I have not posted much about myself, but I once owned 2 musical equipment companies that specialized in high-end, hand-wired tube amps. I personally built >600 tube guitar amplifers plus tube preamps and pedals, before I opened a shop and hired a staff. I licensed custom amplifier designs (19 at last count) to other small to midsized companies. Many of them are still sold today. I also licensed Hi-Fi tube amp and preamp designs to DIY companies.

Most of my marketing was internet-based, which put me in the forums and on social media daily. I quickly learned to have Kevlar skin, and most of important of all, do not engage. You cannot win against random anons on the internet, who organize into tribes and have no need for honesty nor manners. It was the only way to survive. I sold both companies after 11 years, because I eventually started to dislike my customers, who turned my passion into a low-ish paying job. I don't need a low paying job without passion. I can sell my soul in software development instead. (Indeed, DSP has more or less taken over the musical instrument device industry since I left.)

The point is, do your thing, which is a great thing, and let the rest roll off. There is no need to engage. Answer direct, worthwhile questions, and ignore the rest of the noise. Turn your filter up to the max. Hang in there.

 

[richard12511]

Luckily I don't have to listen to these in anechoic chamber.

You may not listen in an anechoic chamber, but anechoic measurements predict which speakers will be preferred most in actual rooms. As Floyd Toole says, we "hear through the room", and the speakers that exhibit the best anechoic measurements are the speakers that are preferred most in any and all rooms by the vast majority of people. That's why they're so useful. Unfortunately, the same isn't true for in room measurements, even though that's where we listen.

 

[SKBubba]

Never understood the appeal, or really the point, of these speakers.

And my daily listeners right now are ~30 year old refurb'd Quartets. Like the "live" sound. They can slam some bass, too. They get cringworthy at 85db spl, but I'm too old for that anyway.

Anyway, I'd like to see measurements of the Forte III v. L100 for us old rockers, in case I get the urge to upgrade.

On the other hand, maybe I should go for a more, uh, refined option in my twilight years.

 

[hardisj]

I didn't think it was to bad until later in the thread. There were only a couple of malcontents.

Interesting you started a thread about discussing a review with a manufacturer. Most of the guys bashing you said this speaker needs a tube amp. Does Klipsch say it needs a tube amp? If not, then I find it humorous that one has to "search the internet" to understand how to use them.

That was my exact point. I even emailed Klipsch recently to ask them. Phrased the question as a consumer would ("hey, do I need to budget for a tube amp or will an AVR do the job?"). Will be interesting to see what they say (if they even reply; they never did to my first email asking how the H-IV should be aimed).

 

[Steve Dallas]

I didn't think it was to bad until later in the thread. There were only a couple of malcontents.

Interesting you started a thread about discussing a review with a manufacturer. Most of the guys bashing you said this speaker needs a tube amp. Does Klipsch say it needs a tube amp? If not, then I find it humorous that one has to "search the internet" to understand how to use them.

Most of those tube guys believe they are characteristically "warm," which works well with overly bright horns. But they have never seen a FR plot of a tube amp. The tubes themselves are capable of very high bandwidth. The output transformers typically serve as the terminal FR filter for the output stage. Couple that with any RC filters upstream, and you arrive at your final FR. Most designers of Hi-Fi tube amps minimize RC filters (and even DC decoupling stages where possible) and use high bandwidth output transformers with minimal negative feedback. Example. The result is a flat FR from ~30Hz to >20KHz at steady state, constant load operation. So, not warm. At all. High frequency can and does roll off, depending on the reactive load seen by the output stage at any given time, but the roll-off is typically above 15KHz, where adults have diminished hearing. Compare that to the PIR graph, and you will see little impact in terms of "warmth". There are significant problems well below that F.

What they are hearing as "warmth" is progressive harmonic "soft clipping," "even order" distortion and related undertones / overtones.

From a high fidelity point of view, such amplification is flawed and outdated. It is fine to like the tactile feel, heat, pretty glowing glass, nostalgia, physical rituals, etc. of tube amplification (and turntables for that matter), but to believe tubes are the epitome of fidelity is magical thinking. I like tube amps, but I am intellectually honest about why.

Back to the Heresy IV... One of my best friends owns a pair. He has them in a small room positioned 1' from the front wall and 2' from the side walls. His electronics are SOTA: Matrix and Benchmark. (<-- Rut Roh!) I have spent quality time with them. I kind of like that they always have a live music-like presentation thanks to their horny PA speaker-like character and resonances. They are definitely "forward" sounding. They definitely also have a notchy response. I didn't notice them as being terribly bass shy, except in the sub bass frequencies, but he does have them positioned for maximum room mode exploitation. I could have a pair as a second pair of "fun" speakers, but could not live with them as a "reference" pair.

But I don't begrudge anyone else for liking or even loving them. Different strokes for different folks and all that.

 

[hardisj]

I could have a pair as a second pair of "fun" speakers, but could not live with them as a "reference" pair.

I feel this way about the Bose 901 speakers. They're so weird... they're fun.

 

[Helicopter]

Most of those tube guys believe they are characteristically "warm," which works well with overly bright horns. But they have never seen a FR plot of a tube amp. The tubes themselves are capable of very high bandwidth. The output transformers typically serve as the terminal FR filter for the output stage. Couple that with any RC filters upstream, and you arrive at your final FR. Most designers of Hi-Fi tube amps minimize RC filters (and even DC decoupling stages where possible) and use high bandwidth output transformers with minimal negative feedback. Example. The result is a flat FR from ~30Hz to >20KHz at steady state, constant load operation. So, not warm. At all. High frequency can and does roll off, depending on the reactive load seen by the output stage at any given time, but the roll-off is typically above 15KHz, where adults have diminished hearing. Compare that to the PIR graph, and you will see little impact in terms of "warmth". There are significant problems well below that F.

What they are hearing as "warmth" is progressive harmonic "soft clipping," "even order" distortion and related undertones / overtones.

From a high fidelity point of view, such amplification is flawed and outdated. It is fine to like the tactile feel, heat, pretty glowing glass, nostalgia, physical rituals, etc. of tube amplification (and turntables for that matter), but to believe tubes are the epitome of fidelity is magical thinking. I like tube amps, but I am intellectually honest about why.

Back to the Heresy IV... One of my best friends owns a pair. He has them in a small room positioned 1' from the front wall and 2' from the side walls. His electronics are SOTA: Matrix and Benchmark. (<-- Rut Roh!) I have spent quality time with them. I kind of like that they always have a live music-like presentation thanks to their horny PA speaker-like character and resonances. They are definitely "forward" sounding. They definitely also have a notchy response. I didn't notice them as being terribly bass shy, except in the sub bass frequencies, but he does have them positioned for maximum room mode exploitation. I could have a pair as a second pair of "fun" speakers, but could not live with them as a "reference" pair.

But I don't begrudge anyone else for liking or even loving them. Different strokes for different folks and all that.

Excellent post. I feel exactly the same way about the gear you mention. I had to measure. I've got my HBR 10" from front wall and 25" from side wall. I would love to try Cornwalls or Heresy IVs, but not right now at MSRP. Completely agree speakers like this are best as a fun second pair. I chuckle that your friend is running them with SOTA electronics, but that's fine too if it is bringing joy.

 

[MZKM]

if they even reply; they never did to my first email asking how the H-IV should be aimed).

I emailed them on 7/6/2020 asking for detail on how they rate/measure sensitivity, they didn’t respond till 8/20/2020.... Most all other brands I emailed responded between 6hrs to 3days.

And even then they didn’t really answer my question:

As an engineering-driven company, Klipsch considers frequency graph measurements proprietary information for our consumer products and does not publish this information.

We utilize custom equipment within our world-class engineering and technology centers that enable us to ensure consistent, precise performance of our horn-loaded loudspeaker systems. With our unique technology delivering controlled directivity, our acoustic engineers have done the work upfront to ensure that Klipsch speakers deliver powerful and smooth sound with a consistent coverage pattern.

Measurements are taken from a distance from the speaker baffle to replicate actual in-home listening and a real-world scenario. In addition, controlled directivity helps to ensure proper flat, smooth frequency response is consistent in-room, and within various room environments, which negates the use of automatic room correction in AV electronics. Our goal is to create the most powerful, best-sounding speaker at an optimal price.

Please note that response measurements taken close to the baffle do not accurately depict a system's total sound delivery into the room, and therefore are not representative of the true-to-life experience.

NHT answered my question without fluff:

We use the average anechoic SPL over a range (~500-2KHz) @ 1M, on-axis with 2.83 VRMS driving voltage.

Sony was also of no help, but at least they were straight to the point:

We would like to inform you that we do not have the information that you seek.

 

[terasankka]

Back to the Heresy IV... One of my best friends owns a pair. He has them in a small room positioned 1' from the front wall and 2' from the side walls. .... They are definitely "forward" sounding. They definitely also have a notchy response. I didn't notice them as being terribly bass shy, except in the sub bass frequencies, but he does have them positioned for maximum room mode exploitation. I could have a pair as a second pair of "fun" speakers, but could not live with them as a "reference" pair.

But I don't begrudge anyone else for liking or even loving them. Different strokes for different folks and all that.

Yes, that is the way to position them - even the manual states to place the about one foot from the back wall. Sub bass is definitely lacking, but adding a Sub fixes that. They are fun speakers and I prefer them to listening to my Genelecs that I use for mixing and mastering. BTW. I am not using a tube amp. I have a Musical Fidelity M6si that has 220watts to 8 ohms and quite high damping factor. Works pretty great with Heresy's.

hardisj's review was really good in my view (even though I did not understand half of it) and I still do not understand if someone gets upset about it. I have not actually seen anyone getting upset about it here nor at the Klipsch forum - were are those upset people that many are referring here?

 

[Purité Audio]

I don’t really understand what is ’fun’ about a really poorly engineered component?
Keith

 

[terasankka]

I don’t really understand what is ’fun’ about a really poorly engineered component?
Keith

Maybe same reasons people like Leica cameras, Harley Davidson motorbikes, RedWing Legacy boots, etc. Heresy was designed 1958, has been selling like cupcakes ever since. Looks good, sounds fun.

Listen to it and you might understand. I prefer it to my Genelecs and I A B listened them to the KEF LS50 and preferred Heresy IV. They just sound good in my ears. I have no idea why I like them for most of my listening. I just do. If I need to mix and master. I use the Genelec... though.

 

[Purité Audio]

I have heard Klipsch speakers on a number of occasions, they are right up there amongst my least favourite, vying with single driver/whizzer cones.
Keith

 

[peanuts]

i had a pair of RF-35 way back. damn that treble, had to be super careful with amps and sources. -which got me into tubes lol