Kii THREE Review

[Teo]

I can for phase exact but not minimum latency (unless you want quasi-anechoic which will be useless below a few hundred hertz)

If you can do it for at least phase exact mode it would be cool too.
But contrary to most people over here, it is the group delay above 700 hz/800 hz that interested me the most. I work a lot in mixing studios and mastering, and over the years i have found that i am really sensitive to group delay change between 800hz-5khz, and that it shoud be the flattest possible in that zone.
Thanks.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

A 2034 on the Kii 3's. And there was much rejoicing throughout the land!

 

[HiFidFan]

Now come on competition, develop something like this at a much lower pricepoint!

How long before Edifier releases a clone for < $4,000/pair?

 

[hardisj]

If you can do it for at least phase exact mode it would be cool too.
But contrary to most people over here, it is the group delay above 700 hz/800 hz that interested me the most. I work a lot in mixing studios and mastering, and over the years i have found that i am really sensitive to group delay change between 800hz-5khz, and that it shoud be the flattest possible in that zone.
Thanks.

Yea, I can do that. I’ve been trying to make a point of providing GD in my reviews but sometimes just plain forget.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

Erin, what happens with the limiter if you pair the Kii's with the BXT modules? Does it shut down? Move to a higher volume level? Or just stay at the same setting? And what about an external sub?

 

[hardisj]

Erin, what happens with the limiter if you pair the Kii's with the BXT modules. Does it shut down? Move to a higher volume level? Or just stay at the same setting?

I’m not sure. I can try to find out.

The ball is rolling on me getting the BXT setup in the (quasi-near) future to test. So if that pans out, I’ll be able to answer that with data.

 

[Soniclife]

And you really think someone who can afford the Kali wouldn’t afford to do that?

Eitherway i’m unconvinced that is is a good purchase for a rich person.

I'm not following, what have Kali got to do with this?

How are you defining rich? By my definition these are cheap toys.

 

[MdeVelde]

Kii Three:
Preference Score is 7.7 and would be 8.3 with a perfect subwoofer.
Preference Score is 8.1 with an EQ and would be 8.7 with a perfect subwoofer and the same EQ.
Bass extension (LFX): 20Hz at -6dB

Dutch, Dutch 8C:
Preference Score is 7.4 and would be 8.0 with a perfect subwoofer.
Preference Score is 7.8 with an EQ and would be 8.5 with a perfect subwoofer and the same EQ.
Bass extension (LFX): 20Hz at -6dB

Hmm that's not what I expected. Given the flatter/deeper bass of the 8c and slightly better treble.
Though I think perhaps the way they are scored is not a good match for these types of speakers. It's likely the more sudden omni bass to cardioid mid that's hurting the 8c score a bit.
Though this is done on purpose, the 8c is designed to be at its best when placed close to the front wall. So there is no discontinuity from omni bass to cardioid mid. And its DSP corrects for this.
So the radiation pattern in the bass when placed as most people would in practice is quite a bit different from its free standing measurements. And would score quite a bit higher if this is taken into account it seems to me. (it flattens out the power response in the bass to low mids)

 

[Absolute]

And you really think someone who can afford the Kali wouldn’t afford to do that?

Eitherway i’m unconvinced that is is a good purchase for a rich person.

I think you're looking at it from the wrong perspective. Let me share my thought process that lead me to the Kiis back in 2016.

Problems to solve;

- Living room in an apartment with limited possibilities for acoustic treatment (and spl).
- One speaker near a corner, both speakers pushed up against the wall.
- Visually non-intrusive for WAF
- Ease of use for the intended purpose as a tv-centered entertainment set-up.
- As close to full-range as possible.
- Good and even dispersion so that placement in the couch don't matter so much.
- As good sound quality as possible within those constraints.

At that time I had just learned about Toole and his findings, the benefits of active speakers with built-in dsp etc and stumbled across Kii by accident. After reading about them and watching a few reviews and measurements, I decided to trust the science and ordered them blind.
They were a lot cheaper back then and didn't really cost all that much more than what they replaced, a pair of Monitor Audio Platinum 200 and Devialet 120 (both bought used).

It was never a question for me about how can I theoretically get the best audio quality possible for this amount of money?
Rather it was given the constraints I have placed upon myself, how can I get as good sound quality as possible?

This is a huge difference in perspective.

 

[TK750]

Yeah I would normally competely agree with you, but the price of these speakers is in the 6 figures

I haven't read the whole thread so sorry if I've missed something but was this a typo? I think the RRP is $14,000. I'm guessing it must have been as $100,000+ to renovate a kitchen or bathroom is quite a lot!

 

[abdo123]

I haven't read the whole thread so sorry if I've missed something but was this a typo? I think the RRP is $14,000. I'm guessing it must have been as $100,000+ to renovate a kitchen or bathroom is quite a lot!

Yes it was a typo thank you for bringing it to my attention.

 

[abdo123]

Hmm that's not what I expected. Given the flatter/deeper bass of the 8c and slightly better treble.
Though I think perhaps the way they are scored is not a good match for these types of speakers. It's likely the more sudden omni bass to cardioid mid that's hurting the 8c score a bit.
Though this is done on purpose, the 8c is designed to be at its best when placed close to the front wall. So there is no discontinuity from omni bass to cardioid mid. And its DSP corrects for this.
So the radiation pattern in the bass when placed as most people would in practice is quite a bit different from its free standing measurements. And would score quite a bit higher if this is taken into account it seems to me. (it flattens out the power response in the bass to low mids)

Placement close to the wall would not change the sound power at all in a significant way. It will only change the on-axis response.

 

[buz]

People With that sort of money can build a room so big that the precedence effect doesn’t even happen. Let that sink in.

These are substantially less than ONE square meter of floor space where I live.

Still don't feel like I would get them but if that is a consideration, deal of the century really.

 

[stevenswall]

I always thought the 8C was a little better tbh. The reviews seem to confirm that the 8C has better bass output(lower distortion below 100hz). Though there's no compression graph for the 8C? Kind of unfortunate. Kii got the BXT out pretty quick and I'm guessing there was a reason for it.

Not that either of these speakers are bad or even mediocre in any sense of the words lol. Just slightly different flavors of fantastic.

Fantastic... But room for improvement as can be seen with their vertical lobeing which problem they chose not to solve.

I'd like to compare the Dutch & Dutch 8C with two subwoofers, the Kii Three with BXT stands, and Genelec 8351B+W371 stands... I think the would all sound excellent in the sweet spot, but D&D and Kii speakers would sound busted in some listening areas.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

You clearly live somewhere very different from me, a large listening room would require moving, and the larger property would probably end up costing well over a quarter of a million. The economics are staggeringly in favour of the speakers.

Right. Around here, the quarter million might get you only the one room and not a big one.

 

[Soniclife]

Right. Around here, the quarter million might get you only the one room and not a big one.

I don't think my post was clear, it was a quarter of a million over my existing property value I meant, on it's own I'm not sure if would get anything around where I live, same as around your way, and lots of other places.

There are a lot of people who could afford these easily, cash rich and space poor, how many of them want good sound quality is the question.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

I'm guessing it must have been as $100,000+ to renovate a kitchen or bathroom is quite a lot!

Again. Unfortunately, not in my neighborhood.

 

[CtheArgie]

@abdo123 , do you know if the shop in Ixelles sells the D&D or the Kii? I walked by it last week and saw it has some "expensive" brands but did not go in.

 

[abdo123]

@abdo123 , do you know if the shop in Ixelles sells the D&D or the Kii? I walked by it last week and saw it has some "expensive" brands but did not go in.

Was it called ‘New Music’ by any chance?

 

[tktran303]

This is a nice speaker if you want to put in close to walls, for sure. If you want to put it out into the room, yes it works too.

But the speaker designer in me wonders what could have been done with a cabinet twice or 4 times as large.

That’s what the BXT will reveal.

What happens when you aren’t constrained to spousal acceptance factor, or have enough space for a large cabinet.

My SWAG (scientific wild arse guess) is that the Kii 3 BXT will still extend to 20Hz but will have MUCH lower distortion, at least in the order of 10 dB or more (perhaps closer 20dB), below the volume displacement limited frequencies (300-400Hz in this design)

Helpfully Erin will get a chance play and listen to it soon. Then he’ll tell us how low distortion mids and low distortion bass affects things.

My SWAG is that he’ll say it plays cleaner and louder and a bit more effortlessly. Maybe he doesn’t realize it’s loud until he looks at the SPL reading. Or maybe he'll say that it sounds closer to the real thing.

As for reducing the rearward sound. There is another solution called soft-fit; speakers installed into a false cavity; where the baffle becomes part of the new wall.

Bigger studios have been installing customized versions of their speakers, suitable for soft-fit mounting, for decades.

You don’t have to build a new room or home or studio.