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Kali Audio IN-8v2 (Second Wave) 3-Way Studio Monitor Review

stevenswall

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Someone tell me why I shouldn't buy this instead of a horizontal center speaker. The latter would probably need an amp which makes it a less appealing option.

You should buy this instead of a horizontal center speaker. Most MTM and similar center channel "bar" type speakers are terrible.

I just started using an IN-8 v2 as a center channel speaker with my Genelec speakers for the left and right and it works well. At some point I'd like an 8361 for a center but we'll see.

For now considering the dispersion, SPL, placement correction, and having a built in amp, I'd go for the Kali over any other center besides one of the Genelec The Ones models.
 

Chromatischism

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You should buy this instead of a horizontal center speaker. Most MTM and similar center channel "bar" type speakers are terrible.

I just started using an IN-8 v2 as a center channel speaker with my Genelec speakers for the left and right and it works well. At some point I'd like an 8361 for a center but we'll see.

For now considering the dispersion, SPL, placement correction, and having a built in amp, I'd go for the Kali over any other center besides one of the Genelec The Ones models.
Nice. I might play with one when the room is ready for it. My only concern is the dispersion isn't quite as wide as I'd like.
 

voodooless

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How well can we compare @hardisj'es measurements with @amirm's?

Looking at the 96 dB distortion of these babies between 100 and 300 Hz is between 1 and 3%. That sounds like a lot compared to say Genelec 8030c, which is at or below .5% above 150Hz. Luckily it's mostly 2nd order on the Kali. Above 400Hz it's all rather comparable though. And the good news is that below 150 Hz, the Kali seems to be way better.

Still curious that apparently, the 5.25" woofer of the Genelec is so much better than the 8" Kali in that frequency range. The price difference must come from somewhere I guess...
 

AnalogSteph

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Still curious that apparently, the 5.25" woofer of the Genelec is so much better than the 8" Kali in that frequency range. The price difference must come from somewhere I guess...
Definitely. I am rarely too concerned about H2, but almost 3% around 150 Hz at 96 dB does seem a tad high. Interestingly, the LP-8 v2 woofer fares somewhat better, though response linearity (compression) looks very similar, so perhaps that is down to sample variation. The compression graphs are illustrating the advantage of a 3-way very nicely, however - the LP woofer is not happy in the midrange at all.
 

voodooless

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Definitely. I am rarely too concerned about H2, but almost 3% around 150 Hz at 96 dB does seem a tad high. Interestingly, the LP-8 v2 woofer fares somewhat better, though response linearity (compression) looks very similar, so perhaps that is down to sample variation. The compression graphs are illustrating the advantage of a 3-way very nicely, however - the LP woofer is not happy in the midrange at all.
Well, at least it's in good company, the Kii and D&D are not much better in this particular regard ;)
 

stevenswall

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Nice. I might play with one when the room is ready for it. My only concern is the dispersion isn't quite as wide as I'd like.

MTM center channels have narrow dispersion to the point of being busted (unless they have a coaxial coincident driver.)

The IN-8 will absolutely wreck any MTM center channel dispersion wise.

Here is an aptly named video from Erin's Audio Corner:


Dispersion wise: Measure the angle of the seating positions you care about, wide dispersion after that doesn't seem useful: if the director wants something to sound larger it will be mixed to spread it out to the L and R channels so that it's not anchored to the center channel as much, and you'll get the reflections you want from a wide dispersion left and right speaker. The center also has to travel much further if you're looking for wide dispersion to reflect and increase the perceived size of the soundstage.
 

Chromatischism

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MTM center channels have narrow dispersion to the point of being busted (unless they have a coaxial coincident driver.)
Right. I've been beating that drum since long before Erin made a video about it, and I'm glad he did. That's why this speaker (along with the price) is attractive.
 

andymarks

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So I just got the Kali IN-8's V2.

With the volume knob on the back at middle position they have less hiss than my Behringer Truth B2031A's not zero but barely hearable for my old ears, which I must say are not optimal anymore, especially in the highs. With the knob on full they have similar hiss compared to my Behringers, so I chose to push a bit more volume into them instead of max the speaker amps. They go loud enough for me at 1.5 meters distance.

What is very notable about the amps on the back is that they don't get warm. It might be they don't produce heat, or it might be that they vent through the bass port. But the metal backside stays room temperature the whole day. The behringers get very warm and noisier during the day. The Kali's don't.

The soundstage is wider and the depth is deeper to my ears. I hear a lot more detail and variance in depth on these speakers. I A/B switched between the Kalis and the Behringers, in comparison the Behringers sound upfront with no depth at all.

As for the bass. For now I give it +20db at 38hz, but I will tune it with a sinus by ear as soon as possible. I will also check it with room eq wizard asap. I don't know yet, but there is something up with the bass response right now, there is a lot of variance between tracks, Maybe I need a few filters to get it right. Lift the upper bass a bit more as well maybe. The amount of bass with a 20db boost is enough to not need a sub. On the other hand I will experiment with the Behringers as subs as well if I can get equalizer apo to filter my secondary outputs differently. I don't know if that is possible.

By the way if you boost the bass 20db you have to lower your input signal a bit, so you have enough green on the output else you'll run into digital distortion / clipping.

As for the on / off axis thing. I have them at a tiny angle from my backwall, but I think they could go straight inline with my backwall as well.
It seems to lift the highs a tiny bit, when I had them full on axis I boosted 9000hz with 1.5db, now at this angle it seems okay to me without eq.

Above 10khz I roll it off completely, because I hear very little above 10khz and don't want to damage my ears further with stuff I can't hear.
Looking at Erin's frequency response it goes up 5db above 10khz.

Nothing to note about the body of the speakers, no scratches, Both sides look the same, no extra glue, no rattling.

So to me the Kali IN-8 V2 deliver. Let's hope they last.
 

andymarks

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It doesn't sound 100x louder, besides these speakers roll off around 45hz. I am just lifting them up again below that.
I am probably raising distortion at the bass driver a bit as well. But I don't hear that. Or maybe I am used to hearing that :)
However if I don't run into the build in limiter the highs and mids should remain intact is my thinking.
This setup is mainly for techno / dance music and trumps a single sub setup in my room. I have a sub, but it sounds detached to me.
Double subs should however be better on paper, in any case the roll off on the Kali's is too high for dance music in my opinion.
You need to lift it a bit or use a sub (or two) to get that bottom end right in my opinion. But obviously I am a bass head.
 

voodooless

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It doesn't sound 100x louder,
No, it will just sound 4 times as loud ;)
besides these speakers roll off around 45hz. I am just lifting them up again below that.
I am probably raising distortion at the bass driver a bit as well. But I don't hear that. Or maybe I am used to hearing that :)
Not a bit, a whole lot. Especially if you boost below the tuning of the reflex enclosure. This can quickly damage the driver. Luckily there will be a high pas filter to combat as well as a compressor to protect the driver.

If you want lower, get a decent sub.
But obviously I am a bass head.
There should not be a lot of music in your genre that goes below 45 Hz anyway. Better boost higher up for more effect.
 

andymarks

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No, it will just sound 4 times as loud ;)

Not a bit, a whole lot. Especially if you boost below the tuning of the reflex enclosure. This can quickly damage the driver. Luckily there will be a high pas filter to combat as well as a compressor to protect the driver.

If you want lower, get a decent sub.

There should not be a lot of music in your genre that goes below 45 Hz anyway. Better boost higher up for more effect.
I don't hear any distortion, but I trust it is there. I use a peak filter in equalizer apo, so it rolls off after 38hz.
To my ears this makes the monitors full range with no side effects that I can hear.
I don't listen at loud levels usually, so I think the limiter won't kick in.
I am more worried about the bass amp than the bass driver, the driver seems as solid as the Behringers and I used the same drill there and they were fine throughout their lifespan.

Roll off at 45hz is too high in any genre to my ears. I don't switch eq settings for different genres.

I got a 10 inch tannoy sub, it sounds delayed and detached under my desk and to the side I feel unequal pressure.
Technically two subs makes sense in my case I am just saying this sounds fine to me an upgrade from the Behringers.
 

andymarks

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The B2031A amps are class A/B while Kali uses class D.
Yeah I was however a bit weary of class D, since I tried the Rokit 10-3 G4 3 way midfields which are class D as well.
I liked them, not as detailed as the Kalis, but still sounded like an upgrade from the Behringers.
But the hiss on the Rokits was unbearable. Now I was using them nearfield and they are really midfield. But I had to send them back.
Happy with almost non existent hiss on the kalis at mid volume on the back.
 

andymarks

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Although boosting the Kali IN-8s with 20db at 34hz turns them into full range speakers. Where you don't need a sub.
After low passing at 100hz I found there to be rattle artifacts in the woofer. It showed more prominent at higher but still moderate volumes.
I could not hear it in all songs and only when low pass filtered I could hear it. So it didn't show in normal usage.
I ended up putting my sub back in below the desk. It does ring the room more, but now the bass is distortion free and I tuned the setup using REW.

So it is possible to be a bass head and use these monitors full range, but the rattle put me off in misusing the speakers this way.
Lesson learned.

These are still great speakers, but need a sub for techno / dance music in my recent opinion.
 

andymarks

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You're bottoming out the woofer. Get a sub :cool:
That's what I said... I put my sub back below my desk, I couldn't hear the distortion through the music, until I low passed the Kalis at 100hz.
There was some rattle in some kicks, it seemed to come from the woofer disc, enough to put me off the whole idea of using them as full range speaker.

I now have a bit more bass decay in my room, but somehow it is not lagging that much anymore.
Got the whole response flat in a 10db range now until 35hz, the Kalis are not to be pushed too hard below their bass roll off.

I can really recommend these speakers. They have a nice soundstage, depth and detail. But they need a sub.
 

audio2920

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In my "portable" setup I've now added 3x WS12s to 3x IN8 in LCR, and it's made a world of difference in terms of low reach and SPL / transient capability.

However, I can never get the crossover to be completely invisible. Neither using the internal WS12 xover nor MiniDSP / Dirac can I get rid of the effects of adding yet another "way".

This isn't surprising to me, nor is it likely to be news to anyone here, but it's worth noting the compromise.

On balance it's better with the subs, but at low listening levels, bypassing the subs and instead "flattening" the IN8 a bit lower often gives a better result (depending on the room/placement of course).
 

Chromatischism

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In my "portable" setup I've now added 3x WS12s to 3x IN8 in LCR, and it's made a world of difference in terms of low reach and SPL / transient capability.

However, I can never get the crossover to be completely invisible. Neither using the internal WS12 xover nor MiniDSP / Dirac can I get rid of the effects of adding yet another "way".

This isn't surprising to me, nor is it likely to be news to anyone here, but it's worth noting the compromise.

On balance it's better with the subs, but at low listening levels, bypassing the subs and instead "flattening" the IN8 a bit lower often gives a better result (depending on the room/placement of course).
So what all have you tried? Gone down to 60 Hz? That's where my system's crossover becomes seamless.
 

audio2920

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So what all have you tried? Gone down to 60 Hz? That's where my system's crossover becomes seamless.
Yeah, I mean it's a rig I throw up in temporary working spaces so it never gets much of a chance.

But yes, different frequencies, filters, slopes, time alignment, EQing & aligning separately before or after Dirac or Trinnov, Dirac'ing the sub and main separately and combined, etc. etc.

Maybe if I tried hard enough in a permanent install I'd get there with it. But my gut feeling is, crossovers introduce problems, so I never expect to able to add another crossover to a system without it doing *something* to the sound.

Edit: but obviously as @andymarks pointed out, it's a win in other ways, so I still lug the subs around with me and go with it!
 
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