In a near field setup: KH80+KH750 or KH120+KH750?

[starfly]

Coming from a JBL LSR305 that I've had for 10 years, I last week picked up the Kali IN8-V2 monitors. They sound great, a significant upgrade from the JBLs. However, due to my room setup, I want to add a sub to both even out the low-end response (a bit more flexibility with placement), and to also have deeper extension, as the Kalis roll off below 40hz significantly (measured in-room response with a UMIK-1).

I was considering adding the Kali WS6.2 sub, which measures well for what it is. But it doesn't really extend below 30hz, and ideally I want a sub that can reach down to 20hz. It also doesn't have ideal group-delay and such. The Kali WS12 sub also doesn't appear to extend much below 30hz.

Then I started doing some research into studio focused subs (most home theater subs don't have balanced inputs/outputs). And then I landed at Neumann.... obviously a very different price range, but at the same time I'd never be wanting anything else as it's perfection.

So now I'm playing around with the idea of getting 2x KH80s or 2x KH120 II + the KH750 sub + MA1 mic. The KH120 setup would cost me around $3700 (incl sub and mic), the KH80 closer to $3000.

For near-field listening, will the KH120 still be better overall than the KH80? This will only be used in my office.

(also open to other sub-only suggestions that would go with the Kali IN8-V2).

 

[starfly]

I for now decided to just get a different sub altogether: Dynaudio 9S. Could'nt find any measurements, so the jury is out on how well it actually performs, but on paper it should reach down to 20hz +/-3dB.

The Neumann setup is just a huge chunk of change. But if I'm still not satisfied with the Kali monitors + Dynaudio sub setup, I'll probably just splurge for the Neumann setup with KH120 monitors.

 

[bachatero]

There is actually another hidden option, and it's a DIY sub. You can easily make a sealed monster for just a few hundred dollars as long as you have an amp!

 

[starfly]

There is actually another hidden option, and it's a DIY sub. You can easily make a sealed monster for just a few hundred dollars as long as you have an amp!

Hmmm, maybe. If this Dynaudio route doesn’t work out I might consider it. But it’d need a plate amp, as this is all for my office setup which uses active monitors and an audio interface to drive it all.

 

[teashea]

Coming from a JBL LSR305 that I've had for 10 years, I last week picked up the Kali IN8-V2 monitors. They sound great, a significant upgrade from the JBLs. However, due to my room setup, I want to add a sub to both even out the low-end response (a bit more flexibility with placement), and to also have deeper extension, as the Kalis roll off below 40hz significantly (measured in-room response with a UMIK-1).

I was considering adding the Kali WS6.2 sub, which measures well for what it is. But it doesn't really extend below 30hz, and ideally I want a sub that can reach down to 20hz. It also doesn't have ideal group-delay and such. The Kali WS12 sub also doesn't appear to extend much below 30hz.

Then I started doing some research into studio focused subs (most home theater subs don't have balanced inputs/outputs). And then I landed at Neumann.... obviously a very different price range, but at the same time I'd never be wanting anything else as it's perfection.

So now I'm playing around with the idea of getting 2x KH80s or 2x KH120 II + the KH750 sub + MA1 mic. The KH120 setup would cost me around $3700 (incl sub and mic), the KH80 closer to $3000.

For near-field listening, will the KH120 still be better overall than the KH80? This will only be used in my office.

(also open to other sub-only suggestions that would go with the Kali IN8-V2).

The KH80's are remarkable for their size .... but the KH120 II's are in a different league. The percent price difference of the system is not very much. I would strongly recommend the combination with KH120 II's.

 

[rcstevensonaz]

Do you prefer an all-in-one approach for room EQ or a system of components that you combine and optimize? And what are the capabilities of your upstream system for managing the EQ / delay for mains & subs? Those factors will help dictate your best overall solution.

I currently have the KH 120A with LH-65 stands on my desk, no subwoofer, and an RME ADI-2 PRO FS-R in a 10'x10'x10' room. I sit ~3' from the speakers; and they are about 4" from the wall. It is a fantastic setup for my situation, and I would not be as happy with either the KH80 or the KH150s given the distances and configuration... even if adding subwoofer, I still would not start with a KH80 for me personally.

At some point, I will add a subwoofer. But the cost of the expensive KH750 far exceeds the improved benefit in the listening value that it would bring for me personally.

So my next jump would be lower cost subwoofers with balanced inputs and a jump up to an RME device that provides both PEQ and Delay (Room Correction)... something I hope will be added to a future RME ADI-2 Pro 2/4 SE version ... or some other system that can provide economical room correction with separate outputs to dual subs vs. Front / Left mains.

On the other hand, a KH750 + MA-1 brings an automated system with integrated room correction solution. And there is a huge benefit in the simplicity that brings!!! (so I may still go down that route)

Bottom line: think through your entire audio chain, your listening environment, your listening positions, the value benefit different improvements will bring, and how much time you are willing to spend time on manual tuning vs. using automated systems. And if using automated systems, which system is the one you want to use.

 

[Pearljam5000]

Do you prefer an all-in-one approach for room EQ or a system of components that you combine and optimize? And what are the capabilities of your upstream system for managing the EQ / delay for mains & subs? Those factors will help dictate your best overall solution.

I currently have the KH 120A with LH-65 stands on my desk, no subwoofer, and an RME ADI-2 PRO FS-R in a 10'x10'x10' room. I sit ~3' from the speakers; and they are about 4" from the wall. It is a fantastic setup for my situation, and I would not be as happy with either the KH80 or the KH150s given the distances and configuration... even if adding subwoofer, I still would not start with a KH80 for me personally.

At some point, I will add a subwoofer. But the cost of the expensive KH750 far exceeds the improved benefit in the listening value that it would bring for me personally.

So my next jump would be lower cost subwoofers with balanced inputs and a jump up to an RME device that provides both PEQ and Delay (Room Correction)... something I hope will be added to a future RME ADI-2 Pro 2/4 SE version ... or some other system that can provide economical room correction with separate outputs to dual subs vs. Front / Left mains.

On the other hand, a KH750 + MA-1 brings an automated system with integrated room correction solution. And there is a huge benefit in the simplicity that brings!!! (so I may still go down that route)

Bottom line: think through your entire audio chain, your listening environment, your listening positions, the value benefit different improvements will bring, and how much time you are willing to spend time on manual tuning vs. using automated systems. And if using automated systems, which system is the one you want to use.

Why don't you upgrade to KH120 II?

 

[unpluggged]

Why don't you upgrade to KH120 II?

The addition of the KH 750 DSP (especially with the MA 1 calibration) will bring much more substantial improvement than replacing speakers that are already very good with similar speakers.

 

[propaganda1]

The KH80's are remarkable for their size .... but the KH120 II's are in a different league. The percent price difference of the system is not very much. I would strongly recommend the combination with KH120 II's.

Could you expand a little on this if possible? I am trying to pick between the two and cant make up my mind. If both are used with a sub + DSP, what would make the KH120 II better?

Thanks

 

[teashea]

Could you expand a little on this if possible? I am trying to pick between the two and cant make up my mind. If both are used with a sub + DSP, what would make the KH120 II better?

Thanks

Yes.... glad to. I would recommend comparing the measurements. The KH 120 II's are a generation more advanced, have flatter frequency response, lower distortion, better amps, a larger woofer, better DSP, work with the MA1, louder and have lower frequency response ...

Of course if you do decide to get the KH750, the 80's will work with the MA1. However, DSP does more than allow use of the MA1.

One thing for your consideration.... How much need do you have for bass below 44 Hz? Consider what you listen to and whether that music has any significant content in the lowest octave. Very little music does. Best wishes.

I would be glad to answer any other questions.

 

[propaganda1]

Yes.... glad to. I would recommend comparing the measurements. The KH 120 II's are a generation more advanced, have flatter frequency response, lower distortion, better amps, a larger woofer, better DSP, work with the MA1, louder and have lower frequency response ...

Of course if you do decide to get the KH750, the 80's will work with the MA1. However, DSP does more than allow use of the MA1.

One thing for your consideration.... How much need do you have for bass below 44 Hz? Consider what you listen to and whether that music has any significant content in the lowest octave. Very little music does. Best wishes.

I would be glad to answer any other questions.

Thank you for the reply, I listen to a lot of EDM so the lower the bass the better. But I will be using a subwoofer, so now I'm just wondering if once DSP is applied and both speakers are EQ'd flat, would there be an audible difference between KH80's and KH120 II's? I have been told that once EQ'd, the KH80's sound identical to the KH120 ii @ near-field listening, but I always like to verify with ASR

As in the UK, there are loads of used KH80's on the market, so I could get a pair of KH80's for cheaper than I could get one KH120 II. Of course, if there is an audible difference in sound, I will just save up and get the KH120 ii, as I am looking for the flattest sound possible.

Thank you for any help

 

[teashea]

Thank you for the reply, I listen to a lot of EDM so the lower the bass the better. But I will be using a subwoofer, so now I'm just wondering if once DSP is applied and both speakers are EQ'd flat, would there be an audible difference between KH80's and KH120 II's? I have been told that once EQ'd, the KH80's sound identical to the KH120 ii @ near-field listening, but I always like to verify with ASR

As in the UK, there are loads of used KH80's on the market, so I could get a pair of KH80's for cheaper than I could get one KH120 II. Of course, if there is an audible difference in sound, I will just save up and get the KH120 ii, as I am looking for the flattest sound possible.

Thank you for any help

The 80's may not be loud enough

 

[starfly]

I ended up getting the KH150 in the end (along with KH750). No regrets!

 

[teashea]

I ended up getting the KH150 in the end (along with KH750). No regrets!

Excellent choice....... Enjoy

 

[IngMishael]

I ended up getting the KH150 in the end (along with KH750). No regrets!

nice

 

[arescec]

I got KH80 + KH750 recently. Found that KH750 starts tattling above talking volume and this is already a replacement one from Thomman . Even MA1 calibration produces very loud rattle.

 

[starfly]

I got KH80 + KH750 recently. Found that KH750 starts tattling above talking volume and this is already a replacement one from Thomman . Even MA1 calibration produces very loud rattle.

I haven’t experience any such issues with my KH750. Could there be something else rattling in your space?

 

[arescec]

I haven’t experience any such issues with my KH750. Could there be something else rattling in your space?

No, the rattle is directly from the cone of the speaker. Besides, it does not go loud enough to oroduce any vibration of either sekf or anything else in the space.
Thinking of returning and ordering from a different store and hopefully batch. Could be that the whole pallet was dropped at some point or something since it is bit extrene that 2 in a roe have this.

 

[teashea]

I got KH80 + KH750 recently. Found that KH750 starts tattling above talking volume and this is already a replacement one from Thomman . Even MA1 calibration produces very loud rattle.

That sounds quite curious. My KH750 has done that and I have never read of a single report of this. Add on to this that it would mean two defective KH750's. Highly unlikely. I suggest that it is something else in your system.

 

[teashea]

No, the rattle is directly from the cone of the speaker. Besides, it does not go loud enough to oroduce any vibration of either sekf or anything else in the space.
Thinking of returning and ordering from a different store and hopefully batch. Could be that the whole pallet was dropped at some point or something since it is bit extrene that 2 in a roe have this.

The speaker rattle could be from some defective input.