• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Kali Audio IN-8 Studio Monitor Review

Juhazi

Major Contributor
Joined
Sep 15, 2018
Messages
1,726
Likes
2,913
Location
Finland

napilopez

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Oct 17, 2018
Messages
2,148
Likes
8,737
Location
NYC
OP
amirm

amirm

Founder/Admin
Staff Member
CFO (Chief Fun Officer)
Joined
Feb 13, 2016
Messages
44,815
Likes
242,927
Location
Seattle Area
Maybe Amir could be so kind to do also an MMM measurement in his garage (see Charles Sprinkle's video or MMM presentation here).
It would be interesting to compare the MMM response with LW measurement and PIR estimation (and no need to buy another software option;))
??? That technique is to deal with room modes, not anything to do with the speaker itself. The microphone is in a fixture in my measurement gear and cannot be easily take out and moved around. It is also connected with a short cable for nearfield measurements.

Finally, PIR has nothing to do with my garage. It is determined using a statistical survey of a dozen or so rooms measured. It is not trying to simulate every room but approximate what you get on average.
 

Charles Sprinkle

Member
Technical Expert
Audio Company
Joined
Jan 16, 2020
Messages
19
Likes
364
@maty Forgive me for being skeptical about that claim.

@Charles Sprinkle - Driver distortion is certainly an interesting topic, but how relevant is it really for normal usage? What's your take given your experience with all kinds of special drivers and the sound quality relative to distortion from the drivers themselves? I stumbled upon this thread where the higher native distortion from the compression driver surprised me.

https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/mul...vs-compression-drivers-horns.html#post5255123

First of all, I need to frame my response from the perspective of the intended use case. These loudspeakers are studio monitors and I need to prioritize design elements based on the requirements of the professionals that use them to make decisions in content creation. Keep in mind, we aren't just make these speakers pleasant to listen to. Along with good directivity and neutral timbre, low distortion is important for content to translate well. At the same time, where we address and improve distortion is relevant from the standpoint of value optimization. This is why we prioritized the midrange transducer which would produce distortion in the most audible range.

I would submit that where we landed is a good balance to bring the benefits of a three-way coaxial monitor to our customers at a price that makes them very affordable.
 

Charles Sprinkle

Member
Technical Expert
Audio Company
Joined
Jan 16, 2020
Messages
19
Likes
364
@Charles Sprinkle a question I've never seen addressed - how is the IN-8 better than the LP-8? The 8" waveguide-dome format seems to be a pretty good design.

The LP8 is a good design, but it is also a non-coincident two way monitor. This means that lobing at the crossover point will be manifest in the vertical plane directivity. That usually is not that big of a deal if they are oriented vertically and you have some absorption on the ceiling, but you will also get a bounce of the console... This is just a consequence of the physics of the design.

The IN8 has better directivity in the vertical plane, so the console bounce will not have a dip at crossover. This also allows them to be oriented horizontally without worrying about the timbre of the first horizontal reflections. Additionally, since we have a midrange, we can optimize the transducer to get a significant reduction in distortion.
 

Charles Sprinkle

Member
Technical Expert
Audio Company
Joined
Jan 16, 2020
Messages
19
Likes
364

jlo

Active Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2018
Messages
100
Likes
177
??? That technique is to deal with room modes, not anything to do with the speaker itself. The microphone is in a fixture in my measurement gear and cannot be easily take out and moved around.
No the MMM technique can be used on the whole frequency range : in any room and even in you garage, it brings a measurement that is quite near from predicted PIR but its general slope depends on room acoustics and listening distance. Give it a try...but with another mic
 

Xulonn

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jun 27, 2018
Messages
1,828
Likes
6,316
Location
Boquete, Chiriqui, Panama
Kudos to Audio Engineer Charles Sprinkle of Kali and Amir Majidimehr, owner of AudioScienceReview and webmaster of ASR. The ASR review contributed to a quick and through examination of the situation and an immediate resolution of the problem.

Although we can assume that the new sample of the loudspeaker and its excellent measurements represents the vast majority of those that have been sold, technically, the defective speaker that tested poorly was representative of a small fraction - and perhaps a single incident them. And now, the manufacturer has reduced any likelihood of that defect recurring. No harm done to the reputation of Kali - and indeed, for most people, including me, Kali's reputation is enhanced. (I hope that Kali will issue a notice for their customers to check for this defect - and provide a fix if anyone else finds the defect in their units.)

After this incident and its resolution, the world has a nice window into to how manufacturer can best deal with problems - and how cooperation between ethical reviewers and ethical and responsive manufacturers can have benefits for everyone involved. Even though my tastes in loudspeakers does not include monitor-type loudspeakers such as this Kali example, I recognize and respect their sonic excellence, and at the close of this problem-solving episode, I have increased respect for the integrity of the company.

I like the concept of independent, open and honest consumer product testing. Almost all of the audio products tested and reviewed by @amirm, with the exception of a very few manufacturer-supplied items, have been purchased on the open market by an audio consumer. Occasional defective products are part of that universe - read this 2014 review at Stereophile for a story of a Raven 300B amplifier that went up in smoke when first fired up...
 

Charles Sprinkle

Member
Technical Expert
Audio Company
Joined
Jan 16, 2020
Messages
19
Likes
364
No the MMM technique can be used on the whole frequency range : in any room and even in you garage, it brings a measurement that is quite near from predicted PIR but its general slope depends on room acoustics and listening distance. Give it a try...but with another mic
Based on the way the NFS works, it shouldn't be affected by room modes. This actually has the potential of being better than an anechoic chamber, which isn't anechoic below a certain frequency based on wedge size.
 
OP
amirm

amirm

Founder/Admin
Staff Member
CFO (Chief Fun Officer)
Joined
Feb 13, 2016
Messages
44,815
Likes
242,927
Location
Seattle Area
No the MMM technique can be used on the whole frequency range : in any room and even in you garage, it brings a measurement that is quite near from predicted PIR but its general slope depends on room acoustics and listening distance. Give it a try...but with another mic
That has nothing to do with what I explained. Read my post again.
 

HammerSandwich

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Nov 22, 2018
Messages
1,137
Likes
1,503
If there's a specific narrow listening window you have to deal with before the response goes to shit, the speaker is per my definition shit as well. It means the reflections will have a different sound than the direct sound you're listening to.
What if the shit response happens only in a narrow window?
 

SDX-LV

Active Member
Joined
Jan 11, 2020
Messages
138
Likes
144
Location
Sweden
Reading through my previous reply, I realize I didn't fully address your questions. Sorry.
  • Regarding trusting some automated system, my answer would be not unless the room issues are addressed and the speakers are in the right place. Even then, automated systems sometimes get a bad result. I prefer to measure and correct myself.
  • If you are doing corrective equalization, you would not need to use the boundary compensation, as this would be corrected by measurement and EQ. (The measurement of the loudspeaker in the room includes the boundary.)
  • I have used Mini DSP with the Kali speakers with good results. If you want more dynamic range, it gets more expensive.
Setting up 5 speakers is a bit more tricky. I recommend trying a few different setups to see which one is more uniform and / or requires less EQ. You would have to measure the listening area with each speaker in each configuration.
Thank you very much for your explanation together with the practical tips - it is always most satisfying to aim for the point of diminishing returns, instead of postponing a happy retirement for the sake of the absolute best everything. I'm waiting for HDMI 2.1 equipped processors to trigger an audio upgrade, and it looks that my next setup will be much more about parametric EQ instead of paying for some Dirac stuff.
Any chance IN-8, or some newer speakers will come in other finishes to improve WAF? :)
 

stunta

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 1, 2018
Messages
1,156
Likes
1,407
Location
Boston, MA
The IN8 uses DSP to implement crossover, EQ, boundary compensation, and transducer protective limiting.

Is the same true for LP series models as well? Thanks.
 

Absolute

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 5, 2017
Messages
1,085
Likes
2,132
What if the shit response happens only in a narrow window?
It's all relative, imo. Depends on window size, usage scenario, frequency response in that window, other relative qualites in the speaker, proximity to reflective surfaces etc.

None of this is relevant to the IN-8 which is about as good as it gets for a coaxial speaker at anywhere near this pricepoint as far as I'm aware.
 

carlob

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Aug 4, 2019
Messages
736
Likes
1,027
Location
Roma, Italy
Any chance IN-8, or some newer speakers will come in other finishes to improve WAF?

I don't understand why all in a sudden everyone wants studio monitors at home. These are meant to be placed on a mixing console without wives around...
 

thewas

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 15, 2020
Messages
6,927
Likes
17,030
I don't understand why all in a sudden everyone wants studio monitor at home. These are meant to be placed on a mixing console without wives around...
Simply because in many cases they offer great value for money if you care more about the objective side of audio like measurements and neutral sound, in most classical hifi loudspeakers a very large percentage of the price is paid goes to the beautiful looking wooden casings with high wife acceptance factor.
 

carlob

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Aug 4, 2019
Messages
736
Likes
1,027
Location
Roma, Italy
Simply because in many cases they offer great value for money if you care more about the objective side of audio like measurements and neutral sound, in most classical hifi loudspeakers a very large percentage of the price is paid goes to the beautiful looking wooden casings with high wife acceptance factor.

I don't think so, most of studio monitors are good only nearfield, say listening point at 1 meter (if you want more distance the increase of cost is relevant), they are optimised for console reflections and are not a good fit for a domestic environment with a listening point at a couple of meters.
 
Top Bottom