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Is this as good as it gets?

alex-z

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There are ways to improve, but not cost effectively.

The KEF Blade Meta would perform slightly better but those are $28-35K per pair.

You could rip out the passive crossovers and do a full active setup, but that is another $2-3K just in amplifier modules for tiny improvements to the distortion levels.

You could build more capable subs using Purifi 10" woofers + Hypex NC502MP modules, but that would be $3K per sub for a small SPL increase you probably don't need.
 

waynel

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There are ways to improve, but not cost effectively.

The KEF Blade Meta would perform slightly better but those are $28-35K per pair.

You could rip out the passive crossovers and do a full active setup, but that is another $2-3K just in amplifier modules for tiny improvements to the distortion levels.

You could build more capable subs using Purifi 10" woofers + Hypex NC502MP modules, but that would be $3K per sub for a small SPL increase you probably don't need.
A bigger pair Rythmik, PSA, or Arendal subs would be a minimal investment considering the resale of the current subs and the overall cost of the system.
 

alex-z

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A bigger pair Rythmik, PSA, or Arendal subs would be a minimal investment considering the resale of the current subs and the overall cost of the system.

True, I was talking about building subs the same physical size as the KEF KF92, just more capable. If you are willing to have bigger cabinets then you can get an awful lot of SPL for cheap.
 
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Ghostofmerlin

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But the KEFs are compact for what they do. If size (and looks) matter, that has a price.
@Ghostofmerlin How does the end result measure?

Honestly, now that I am thinking about it, the room eq knocks the subs down a few db, so I think they're doing okay. I'll try to get a measurement here at some point with the room correction applied.
 
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Ghostofmerlin

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Quick frequency response averaged from about 5 locations in the room.
Screenshot 2024-03-11 at 5.21.34 PM.png
 
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Ghostofmerlin

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I’m not overly confident. It’s possible that I’m precise but not accurate. It does seem awfully bass heavy to me though.
 

617

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Audio equipment is almost never the impediment to musical enjoyment, as any teenager with a walkman/discman/ipod/phone will tell you.
 
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Ghostofmerlin

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I’m enjoying it. I also enjoy the puttering. I’d like to see if I can get a nice flatter response.
 

srrxr71

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I’m enjoying it. I also enjoy the puttering. I’d like to see if I can get a nice flatter response.
The only place imho worth measuring is your listening position. That graph is unusual. Almost like you measured only the corners.
 

-Matt-

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In the OP you mention having a miniDSP Flex with Dirac. For the response you showed above, have you run Dirac yet?

Hopefully not, and if that is the case it would be good if you could post before and after responses at the mlp.

The large bass shelf can probably be helped either by reducing the subwoofer level, or by pullying the R11s further out from the wall (and/or using the port bungs).

It will help Dirac if you can get the response a bit nearer to your intended target by moving speakers etc before you start.
 

srrxr71

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My current setup is as follows (2.2)
Speakers x2- KEF R11 Meta
Subs x2- KEF KF92
Amps x2- Benchmark AHB2
Minidsp Flex Htx with Dirac room correction
Sonos Port
I also have a Benchmark LA4 and a RME ADI-2 DAC, which I had been using for my laptop prior to getting the Minidsp, and I think they are superfluous at this point.

So I have worked with the Dirac and the room correction really makes a big difference in the sound. I still don't know if I've got it dialed in correctly, but I'm learning. And I think with my room I will have to have room correction. It is not a dedicated listening room, is probably 25 x 30 feet in size, and has five doors. There is also a wall of glass windows/doors leading to the outside. So I think room correction is the only chance I have to make it sound right. Room treatment is not an option, really.

According to what I have read here at ASR, all of my electronics measure very well and will perform at a level that my golden ears will not be able to tell a difference from any other piece of equipment. The KEF R11s are really nice. I bought them based on the measurements, which seemed reasonable. I just can't imagine having speakers that "sound better", although I would listen to suggestions. I could certainly improve on the appearance of them, although the walnut finish does look pretty good in the room.

So am I done? Endgame set up? Sell everything and get the new Dutch and Dutch (would improve my cabling, haha)?

Thanks!
I would not say just selling everything and going Dutch and Dutch would be a panacea.

It really depends on the location of your listening wall to the glass wall.

I hung up 4 layers of (maybe overkill) sound proofing felt lined curtains. It’s nice to be able to open them when needed and close them when listening.

I bet your room correction takes the FR very well. However how’s the RT60? With a room your size it doesn’t have to be too low but probably something keeping it under 350ms would be nice to have.

Cardioid bass is nice however it’s a different paradigm. I was playing with it recently. I also read the condo system thread.

In the condo system thread people were talking about how you have to pressurize the whole room and how you need to size your subwoofers to be able to do that.

Sure that’s true. However even your neighbors will get pressurized. So will your corners and resonances of walls etc.

So cardioid will help with those bass problems. But I didn’t notice much effect on my decay times. Just correcting the FR in the bass is 90% of the battle. There are other practical reasons for it. Such as reducing that wall resonance and keeping the peace with that neighbors.

It’s isn’t a panacea imho. It’s a strange feeling. The bass subjectively sounds so tight. It also sounds so connected to the instrument that is producing it whether that be a kick drum or bass guitar. It’s a very nice effect.

The flip-side is that it sounds so different from how we experience bass in every other scenario. Go to an indoor concert or any other venue the bass does generally pressurize the entire room. It’s what we are used to.

I think that’s changing these days with the insane tech we have.

I’ve been watching Michael Curtis videos on YouTube where he talks about cardioid deployed in live music settings. Also a lot about live music sound reinforcement.

If anything it probably is closer to hearing actual unamplified instruments in real space.

It’s an adjustment process I guess.
 
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Ghostofmerlin

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In the OP you mention having a miniDSP Flex with Dirac. For the response you showed above, have you run Dirac yet?

Hopefully not, and if that is the case it would be good if you could post before and after responses at the mlp.

The large bass shelf can probably be helped either by reducing the subwoofer level, or by pullying the R11s further out from the wall (and/or using the port bungs).

It will help Dirac if you can get the response a bit nearer to your intended target by moving speakers etc before you start.
I had run Dirac. I haven’t had time available to work on it lately, but I think I had something wrong with the flow of the signals through the Minidsp system and was effectively doubling the bass signal. I made a couple of changes and it sounds better, but haven’t had time to sit down and measure it.
 

amper42

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Quick frequency response averaged from about 5 locations in the room.
View attachment 355769

If this is really your REW curve, then this system is setup poorly. This curve would sound like a huge bass boom with little definition. :p
I would turn off Dirac and measure again to reveal the natural curve. Personally, with these speakers I would go back to the RME ADI-2 FS DAC and dump the Flex if you have a decent room.
 

Geertidow

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Regarding your original post: you have endgame material, you can always go better but there is so much more to be done with equalizing.
So my advice would be to spend time and not money.

Just for my understanding:
1. Did you time allign your subwoofers properly? There's an easy way with DIRAC (see @abdo123 's tutorial).
2. That bass in your measurements is waaayyy too much. Have you tried EQ'ing that a bit before DIRAC (naturally, after step 1).

I think with what you have with some tweaking you could get a lot out of this system, so enjoy the ride :)
 

amper42

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Regarding your original post: you have endgame material, you can always go better but there is so much more to be done with equalizing.
So my advice would be to spend time and not money.

Just for my understanding:
1. Did you time allign your subwoofers properly? There's an easy way with DIRAC (see @abdo123 's tutorial).
2. That bass in your measurements is waaayyy too much. Have you tried EQ'ing that a bit before DIRAC (naturally, after step 1).

I think with what you have with some tweaking you could get a lot out of this system, so enjoy the ride :)

No EQ is better than overdone EQ or incorrect EQ settings. I wouldn't apply EQ until I had lived with no EQ for a while and identified whether changes are needed using REW and my ears.
 
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Ghostofmerlin

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Personally, with these speakers I would go back to the RME ADI-2 FS DAC and dump the Flex if you have a decent room.
I'll try to do that this weekend if I get some time. That seems like a very reasonable next step. The problem is that I have it sounding reasonable and my motivation to dive in and fiddle is low compared to my overall life craziness. The other issue I have is that I have four dogs and three kids, so getting anything anywhere close to quiet enough for measurement purposes requires an act of congress....:D
 
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Ghostofmerlin

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No Dirac- Orange
Dirac- Blue

This is after I have figured out the routing of the MiniDsp a little better.


Screenshot 2024-03-22 at 4.28.05 PM.png
 
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