Is this as good as it gets?

[Ghostofmerlin]

My current setup is as follows (2.2)
Speakers x2- KEF R11 Meta
Subs x2- KEF KF92
Amps x2- Benchmark AHB2
Minidsp Flex Htx with Dirac room correction
Sonos Port
I also have a Benchmark LA4 and a RME ADI-2 DAC, which I had been using for my laptop prior to getting the Minidsp, and I think they are superfluous at this point.

So I have worked with the Dirac and the room correction really makes a big difference in the sound. I still don't know if I've got it dialed in correctly, but I'm learning. And I think with my room I will have to have room correction. It is not a dedicated listening room, is probably 25 x 30 feet in size, and has five doors. There is also a wall of glass windows/doors leading to the outside. So I think room correction is the only chance I have to make it sound right. Room treatment is not an option, really.

According to what I have read here at ASR, all of my electronics measure very well and will perform at a level that my golden ears will not be able to tell a difference from any other piece of equipment. The KEF R11s are really nice. I bought them based on the measurements, which seemed reasonable. I just can't imagine having speakers that "sound better", although I would listen to suggestions. I could certainly improve on the appearance of them, although the walnut finish does look pretty good in the room.

So am I done? Endgame set up? Sell everything and get the new Dutch and Dutch (would improve my cabling, haha)?

Thanks!

 

[kemmler3D]

My current setup is as follows (2.2)
Speakers x2- KEF R11 Meta
Subs x2- KEF KF92
Amps x2- Benchmark AHB2
Minidsp Flex Htx with Dirac room correction
Sonos Port
I also have a Benchmark LA4 and a RME ADI-2 DAC, which I had been using for my laptop prior to getting the Minidsp, and I think they are superfluous at this point.

So I have worked with the Dirac and the room correction really makes a big difference in the sound. I still don't know if I've got it dialed in correctly, but I'm learning. And I think with my room I will have to have room correction. It is not a dedicated listening room, is probably 25 x 30 feet in size, and has five doors. There is also a wall of glass windows/doors leading to the outside. So I think room correction is the only chance I have to make it sound right. Room treatment is not an option, really.

According to what I have read here at ASR, all of my electronics measure very well and will perform at a level that my golden ears will not be able to tell a difference from any other piece of equipment. The KEF R11s are really nice. I bought them based on the measurements, which seemed reasonable. I just can't imagine having speakers that "sound better", although I would listen to suggestions. I could certainly improve on the appearance of them, although the walnut finish does look pretty good in the room.

So am I done? Endgame set up? Sell everything and get the new Dutch and Dutch (would improve my cabling, haha)?

Thanks!

For speakers - the D&D might sound better because of the cardioid bass, which generally really helps take the room out of the equation. Most comments about the 8C I've seen seem to indicate they're just about the best speakers you can get.

As far as electronics go, you're at the ceiling unless you are hearing a deficit in SPL somehow.

Room correction mostly only helps with bass or broad tonal problems, so if you have a lack of clarity due to long reverberation or too much comb filtering or whatever, unfortunately room correction can't do much for that.

But yeah, if acoustic treatment is not an option, overall your setup is quite good. There are not a lot of speakers that will measure massively "better" within a reasonable price range.

There are speakers that will sound "different". Dipoles, electrostatics, large horns - all are considered to have a different sound than box speakers. However, whether it's better or just different is mostly a matter of opinion.

 

[Timcognito]

Music and relax. Think about a new car or a trip to far off place if money is burning hole in your pocket. Buyers remorse is ugly thing, use what you got for a while.

 

[staticV3]

I think that directivity is one thing you could still explore.

That includes cardioid bass, ribbon tweeters like the BMR Tower, ELX Tower, or Sierra Tower V2, or at the extreme end, stuff like CBT speakers or Magnepan speakers.

There's no right or wrong regarding beam width from what I can tell, so it's something everyone has to find out for themselves.

Edit: for reference, here's the R11 Meta:

top=hor, bottom=ver

It should be easy to see how something like the ELX Tower could give you a different experience:

 

[Timcognito]

The glass wall thing is a tough one see this post.

How effective would heavy ceiling treatment work here?

I realize it's not possible to give a concrete answer, but I'm hoping to gather opinions deeper than "it's better than nothing" before spending so much. GIK sales have recommended 12x 244s (https://www.gikacoustics.com/product/gik-acoustics-244-bass-trap-flexrange-technology/) but I'm willing...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[DVDdoug]

That's probably as good as it gets. Of course you can EQ or adjust tone controls (if you have them) by ear if you feel like it helps, especially with certain recordings.

You might want to boost the bass when you're not listening at "realistic levels". (The equal-loudness characteristics of our hearing make it sound like we've also turned-down the bass when we've just turned-down the volume.)

I use the "hall" or "theater" soundfield settings on my AVR to get some rear-channel reverb and the "feel" of a bigger space, but that's sort-of "high fidelity heresy" because I'm not listening to stereo recordings "as intended".

 

[Ghostofmerlin]

So what you guys are telling me is that I have to get into vinyl now.

Okay. I'm done. Probably will move on the RME and LSA4 I guess, or repurpose them for an upstairs or office setting. Appreciate all that ASR does.

 

[waynel]

My current setup is as follows (2.2)
Speakers x2- KEF R11 Meta
Subs x2- KEF KF92
Amps x2- Benchmark AHB2
Minidsp Flex Htx with Dirac room correction
Sonos Port
I also have a Benchmark LA4 and a RME ADI-2 DAC, which I had been using for my laptop prior to getting the Minidsp, and I think they are superfluous at this point.

So I have worked with the Dirac and the room correction really makes a big difference in the sound. I still don't know if I've got it dialed in correctly, but I'm learning. And I think with my room I will have to have room correction. It is not a dedicated listening room, is probably 25 x 30 feet in size, and has five doors. There is also a wall of glass windows/doors leading to the outside. So I think room correction is the only chance I have to make it sound right. Room treatment is not an option, really.

According to what I have read here at ASR, all of my electronics measure very well and will perform at a level that my golden ears will not be able to tell a difference from any other piece of equipment. The KEF R11s are really nice. I bought them based on the measurements, which seemed reasonable. I just can't imagine having speakers that "sound better", although I would listen to suggestions. I could certainly improve on the appearance of them, although the walnut finish does look pretty good in the room.

So am I done? Endgame set up? Sell everything and get the new Dutch and Dutch (would improve my cabling, haha)?

Thanks!

Your subs fall well short of the rest of your system. can you fit some bigger subs?

 

[kemmler3D]

Your subs fall well short of the rest of your system. can you fit some bigger subs?

I think this depends on whether OP listens at high SPL or not, the neighbors, etc. The R11s are OK on their own to 35hz or so. The KF92 can do a bit over 85dB at 2m at 20hz... with 2 you're at 88dB and in-room you're going to be in the 90s, maybe getting close to 100dB, which is basically as loud as most people will ever want their peaks.

OTOH if OP likes their bass movie-theater loud, you may have a point.


However - given that OP mentioned acoustic treatment is not an option, my guess is aesthetics are going to be a limiting factor on sub size / placement, so maybe this is another fixed value in the equation.

 

[Ze Frog]

My current setup is as follows (2.2)
Speakers x2- KEF R11 Meta
Subs x2- KEF KF92
Amps x2- Benchmark AHB2
Minidsp Flex Htx with Dirac room correction
Sonos Port
I also have a Benchmark LA4 and a RME ADI-2 DAC, which I had been using for my laptop prior to getting the Minidsp, and I think they are superfluous at this point.

So I have worked with the Dirac and the room correction really makes a big difference in the sound. I still don't know if I've got it dialed in correctly, but I'm learning. And I think with my room I will have to have room correction. It is not a dedicated listening room, is probably 25 x 30 feet in size, and has five doors. There is also a wall of glass windows/doors leading to the outside. So I think room correction is the only chance I have to make it sound right. Room treatment is not an option, really.

According to what I have read here at ASR, all of my electronics measure very well and will perform at a level that my golden ears will not be able to tell a difference from any other piece of equipment. The KEF R11s are really nice. I bought them based on the measurements, which seemed reasonable. I just can't imagine having speakers that "sound better", although I would listen to suggestions. I could certainly improve on the appearance of them, although the walnut finish does look pretty good in the room.

So am I done? Endgame set up? Sell everything and get the new Dutch and Dutch (would improve my cabling, haha)?

Thanks!

Sounds like a killer system. If it does the job you want it to you should keep it as is. Spend the money on music instead, like rare albums and the like, I just dropped £45 on a CD that's only 13 minutes long, lol, but is something I had to have.

I've literally just sold all my gear accept my D.I.Y bookshelves and a Fosi Audio BT30D. Moving later this year at some point, then buying my very last system that won't be changed again ever, that way I can buy more music as that's where the real enjoyment is.

 

[waynel]

I think this depends on whether OP listens at high SPL or not, the neighbors, etc. The R11s are OK on their own to 35hz or so. The KF92 can do a bit over 85dB at 2m at 20hz... with 2 you're at 88dB and in-room you're going to be in the 90s, maybe getting close to 100dB, which is basically as loud as most people will ever want their peaks.

OTOH if OP likes their bass movie-theater loud, you may have a point.


However - given that OP mentioned acoustic treatment is not an option, my guess is aesthetics are going to be a limiting factor on sub size / placement, so maybe this is another fixed value in the equation.

The point is headroom at low frequencies. The bridged AHB2s are capable of producing 117dB at 1 meter peaks with the R11s 90dB sensitivity. The kef subs fall well short of this and I would argue that at low frequencies headroom is even more important. Plus I would recommend crossing over to subs at around 80Hz to avoid SBIR problems with the mains. Rythmik F12s are not to big and would provide 12dB more output at 20Hz.

 

[Ghostofmerlin]

Your subs fall well short of the rest of your system. can you fit some bigger subs?

I probably could, I guess, but I'm not unhappy with the bass they provide. The subs would be at the bottom of my list to upgrade, I think. I should probably add that I don't listen at high volumes, typically, and it's only for music. No movies.

 

[-Matt-]

"Is this as good as it gets?"
Very possibly.

The components are good, but it would be interesting for us to see what the combined end result is. Would you consider posting some REW measurements? At the end of the day, the in-room sound is what you hear, not the sum of review measurements made under controlled conditions.

 

[Mnyb]

The major improvement you realistically can do is move the music system to a better room and start treating that

With such a fantastic system is hard to improve.

If you like kef maybe the large reference or blades instead but thats an ungodly amount of $$$$$

 

[AdrenalinH]

My current setup is as follows (2.2)
Speakers x2- KEF R11 Meta
Subs x2- KEF KF92
Amps x2- Benchmark AHB2
Minidsp Flex Htx with Dirac room correction

Frankly, after time spent on this site, this will be my ultimate goal. May be I would add HiFi Rose streamer purely for looks and Thorens as turntable.

But most importantly, at some point you need just stop and enjoy what you have. May be devote your passion and energy to find good music. Don't let desire to constantly buy new gear consume you

 

[Willem]

If you consider doing something at the subwoofer end, my suggestion would be to keep the ones you have, and add one or two. This will give more headroom, and an even better equalization across a wider listening area. The room is large, so maybe at least one of those additional subs should perhaps be larger than what you have (there is no harm in mixing different subs). On the other hand adding more of the same also extends the headroom and effectively also the extension. Are you high passing the main speakers?

 

[FrantzM]

Hi

This is as good as anything out there. I'd embark on a learning expedition: How to get the best out of MY system. A long road to be honest, give it at least 6 months, it could be more, perhaps an entire year. At the end you will have a stellar no FOMO system in your room...
...
...
...

I would want more powerful subs. For the price of the Kef K92, there are better subs....

Peace

 

[Willem]

But the KEFs are compact for what they do. If size (and looks) matter, that has a price.
@Ghostofmerlin How does the end result measure?

​

 

[Ghostofmerlin]

If you consider doing something at the subwoofer end, my suggestion would be to keep the ones you have, and add one or two. This will give more headroom, and an even better equalization across a wider listening area. The room is large, so maybe at least one of those additional subs should perhaps be larger than what you have (there is no harm in mixing different subs). On the other hand adding more of the same also extends the headroom and effectively also the extension. Are you high passing the main speakers?

Passing at 80.

 

[Ghostofmerlin]

"Is this as good as it gets?"
Very possibly.

The components are good, but it would be interesting for us to see what the combined end result is. Would you consider posting some REW measurements? At the end of the day, the in-room sound is what you hear, not the sum of review measurements made under controlled conditions.

I just got the Dirac figured out. Finally. Now to play with the REW.