Is there a simple multichannel solution for 5.1/5.2 audio with DSP that is NOT an AVR?

[HooStat]

I have been trying to sort this out. I have an Apple TV and would like to listen to stereo music and multichannel TV programming (and multichannel music when available) in a living room type space. I was trying to avoid spending $1500 on an AVR -- I would like to use 5 active speakers like Genelec or Neumann (or similar) and 2 subs. (If it had to be 1 sub it would be ok.).

It seems that what I want is very old technology -- 5.1 audio has been around for a long time now. From what I can tell, the issue is getting multichannel PCM to the DAC and (or speakers if they have the DAC built in). I think the Apple TV will allow this, but only via HDMI. That seems to be the primary hurdle to address.

Ignoring the HDMI issue, there are a number of DSP solutions out there, many from MiniDSP and Dirac, which would be fine. Genelec and Neumann have their own DSP solutions too.

It seems that a computer like a Mac Mini might work -- USB output into a DAC. But from what I gather, there is no elegant, remote-control based UI like there is on the Apple TV for navigating the various options (Netflix, Hulu, Apple Music, etc). But perhaps I am wrong about this.

Has anyone come up with an elegant solution that isn't an AVR? I can certainly get a Denon (or whatever the ASR consensus is) and use preamp outputs. Perhaps that is the optimal solution and I am trying to hard to look for a different solution.

Thanks for all suggestions.

 

[NiagaraPete]

This may be a place to start.

DM7 8CH USB DAC-TOPPING

 

[AdamG]

Not certain that this fits your requirements but I thought I would post a link:

BasX MC1 13.2 Channel Dolby Atmos® & DTS:X™ Cinema Processor

The BasX MC1 is a high performance cinema surround sound processor that supports 4k UHD video, including HDR and Dolby Vision, enhanced ARC (eARC), and the latest Dolby Atmos and DTS:X immersive surround sound formats.

emotiva.com

 

[dshreter]

Not certain that this fits your requirements but I thought I would post a link:

BasX MC1 13.2 Channel Dolby Atmos® & DTS:X™ Cinema Processor

The BasX MC1 is a high performance cinema surround sound processor that supports 4k UHD video, including HDR and Dolby Vision, enhanced ARC (eARC), and the latest Dolby Atmos and DTS:X immersive surround sound formats.

emotiva.com

Had no idea this existed. Any idea of the quality of their room correction?

 

[DVDdoug]

I paid about $300 USD for my AVR. (It doesn't have preamp outputs.)

A computer will work if you get a 5.1 or 7.1 channel soundcard. (As long as the computer works with all of your sources.) I don't know how you get remote control.

Most stand-alone DACs can't decode the DVD/Blu-Ray surround formats. With a computer that can be done in software. (But when my computer is plugged-into my home theater system I'm using HDMI into the AVR which is handling the decoding. Otherwise, I might just be watching a movie on the computer with headphones.)

 

[tifune]

I paid about $300 USD for my AVR. (It doesn't have preamp outputs.)

A computer will work if you get a 5.1 or 7.1 channel soundcard. (As long as the computer works with all of your sources.) I don't know how you get remote control.

Most stand-alone DACs can't decode the DVD/Blu-Ray surround formats. With a computer that can be done in software. (But when my computer is plugged-into my home theater system I'm using HDMI into the AVR which is handling the decoding. Otherwise, I might just be watching a movie on the computer with headphones.)

I'm not happy about it myself, but more often than not this is the best option unless OP has the time & inclination for DIY. Between the codecs, the cost of multichannel DAC, room correction software, amps if passive speakers, etc youre lucky to break even when compared to a used/refurb Denon.

As of yet there is no TrueHD support on Windows; I hear Mac has options but I've never tried. Whether TrueHD matters to OP, especially in context of 5.1, is another story but if you can get it "for free" with AVR, why not. Cavern can do DD+ on Windows, which helps a little with cost

 

[mdsimon2]

It can be done but you won't save any money compared to an AVR. If you want to avoid an AVR probably best to start with a computer.

If you want to use an AppleTV and are OK with only DD 5.1: HDMI extractor to DD 5.1 optical -> Dolby DP-562 Decoder -> Okto dac8 pro -> RPi/PC/Mac running DSP -> Okto dac8 pro. All in all this is probably around $1500 but you are starting from compressed Dolby 5.1.

If you want to use an AppleTV and want to start with 5.1 PCM: HDMI to SPDIF/AES extractor (Meridian HD621 or Audiopraise VanityPro) -> Okto dac8 pro -> RPi/PC/Mac running DSP -> Okto dac8 pro. This will definitely be more than $1500 but if you go the Meridian route you can probably get it done for under $2000.

There are other options beside the Okto dac8 pro but they will be less convenient and more expensive. For example a miniDSP U-DIO8 can route SPDIF/AES to a computer for DSP and back out to SPDIF/AES but you still need separate DACs. Although maybe your monitors have digital inputs in which case this would be a great alternative.

Michael

 

[juliangst]

I'm not sure about Windows (even though I'm a Windows user) but on MacOS you can play native surround/ Dolby Atmos content from AppleTV and Apple Music through any multichannel DAC/Interface.
If you don't have multichannel DACs you can get Loopback (which is 100 bucks) and combine any USB DACs into a single multichannel device and controol everything viathe system volume control.

I guess the most elegant solution is getting an OktoDAC or Topping DM7, correct everything using Dirac and buy movies on AppleTV (iTunes).
Downloaded .mkv movies and similar formats with surround should work on either MacOS and Windows but getting surround sound from Netflix is probably a bit more difficult.

I would be happy to pay 1000-2000€ for an simple HDMI to XLR/TRS surround processor with topping DM7 specs but there just is no market for processors like this.

 

[AdamG]

Had no idea this existed. Any idea of the quality of their room correction?

I have no first hand experience or knowledge about it. Here is the User Manual for your perusal:

Current_Manuals

Shared with Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

 

[mkt]

Great question!

I have an AVR-free setup of Mac -> multi-channel DAC -> active speakers (Geneelc + GLM). It does Apple Music and Apple TV (the app) in atmos or 5.1 depending how many speakers you have. And I play multichannel music files (I am ripping a SACD as I type) with Roon (or JRiver) and 5.1 video files with VLC. I have not had success in getting any of the major streaming video services to play nice. (https://www.digitalconcerthall.com/ does stream 4K video and Dolby Atmos). So not a living room friendly setup.

I have not seen a better living room/elegant solution than AVR w/ pre-outs, or a A/V processor (sometimes pricey) to get through the HDMI -> active speaker barrier.
And there is this (no price!)

7.1 HDMI-2A

HDMI-2A

www.arvus.com

And

Audiopraise VanityPro Review (HDMI Audio Extractor)

This is a review and measurements of the Audiopraise VanityPro HDMI audio extractor. It was kindly sent to me by their distributor, JVB Digital and costs US $1,599. The VanityPro is a compact device, not much bigger than typical desktop audio products. Its main functionality is to extract...

www.audiosciencereview.com

or a cheap one

https://www.amazon.com/Optical-Converter-Analog-Surround-Decoder/dp/B07J49P1H2

 

[HooStat]

It can be done but you won't save any money compared to an AVR. If you want to avoid an AVR probably best to start with a computer.

If you want to use an AppleTV and are OK with only DD 5.1: HDMI extractor to DD 5.1 optical -> Dolby DP-562 Decoder -> Okto dac8 pro -> RPi/PC/Mac running DSP -> Okto dac8 pro. All in all this is probably around $1500 but you are starting from compressed Dolby 5.1.

If you want to use an AppleTV and want to start with 5.1 PCM: HDMI to SPDIF/AES extractor (Meridian HD621 or Audiopraise VanityPro) -> Okto dac8 pro -> RPi/PC/Mac running DSP -> Okto dac8 pro. This will definitely be more than $1500 but if you go the Meridian route you can probably get it done for under $2000.

There are other options beside the Okto dac8 pro but they will be less convenient and more expensive. For example a miniDSP U-DIO8 can route SPDIF/AES to a computer for DSP and back out to SPDIF/AES but you still need separate DACs. Although maybe your monitors have digital inputs in which case this would be a great alternative.

Michael

So the VanityPro will take the PCM output of an Apple TV and allow me to run a digital signal straight into speakers with a digital input (e.g., Genelec)? For basically the same price as a solid DVR? Wow. That is a very interesting solution. Or a used Meridian 621 (need to look into that a bit more but they are < $300 on ebay).

 

[HooStat]

Great question!

I have an AVR-free setup of Mac -> multi-channel DAC -> active speakers (Geneelc + GLM). It does Apple Music and Apple TV (the app) in atmos or 5.1 depending how many speakers you have. And I play multichannel music files (I am ripping a SACD as I type) with Roon (or JRiver) and 5.1 video files with VLC. I have not had success in getting any of the major streaming video services to play nice. (https://www.digitalconcerthall.com/ does stream 4K video and Dolby Atmos). So not a living room friendly setup.

I have not seen a better living room/elegant solution than AVR w/ pre-outs, or a A/V processor (sometimes pricey) to get through the HDMI -> active speaker barrier.
And there is this (no price!)

7.1 HDMI-2A

HDMI-2A

www.arvus.com

And

Audiopraise VanityPro Review (HDMI Audio Extractor)

This is a review and measurements of the Audiopraise VanityPro HDMI audio extractor. It was kindly sent to me by their distributor, JVB Digital and costs US $1,599. The VanityPro is a compact device, not much bigger than typical desktop audio products. Its main functionality is to extract...

www.audiosciencereview.com

or a cheap one

https://www.amazon.com/Optical-Converter-Analog-Surround-Decoder/dp/B07J49P1H2

Good options here too. Not sure about the Arvus one -- don't know if it is available anywhere but will look into it.

 

[ppataki]

In my opinion the simplest approach is to use a computer and connect a Topping DM7 to it via USB
That will give you a fully balanced 8-channel system that beats any AVR by far in terms of DAC quality
You can use Jriver as the DSP on the computer (top-notch 64-bit DSP engine), it can decode TrueHD and DTS-HD to multichannel PCM and send it to the DM7
(If you play Dolby Atmos and DTS-X content, the 7.1 lossless core will be used)
I have been using a similar setup for more than a decade and will probably never go back to AVRs

Edit: Jriver also has a WDM driver in Windows, meaning that audio coming from any other software source (like Google Chrome, Tidal, etc) can also be routed through Jriver's DSP engine)

 

[Blumlein 88]

Had no idea this existed. Any idea of the quality of their room correction?

This spec might give me pause on the Emotiva.
THD < 0.05% from 20 Hz to 20 kHz

That is only -66 db. This getting into marginal range. I have no idea why it would be this poor in a line level 2 volt output device. They claim -85 db at 1 khz. I've found their products in processors to be marginal.

 

[Sal1950]

Has anyone come up with an elegant solution that isn't an AVR?

There are numerous paths, but most all will be too expensive or limiting in the multich codec you can use or have a very steep, complicated learning curve.
Unless you really enjoy the challenges, a good AVR or Pre/Pro is still the best path. IMO

 

[mkt]

In my opinion the simplest approach is to use a computer and connect a Topping DM7 to it via USB
That will give you a fully balanced 8-channel system that beats any AVR by far in terms of DAC quality
You can use Jriver as the DSP on the computer (top-notch 64-bit DSP engine), it can decode TrueHD and DTS-HD to multichannel PCM and send it to the DM7
(If you play Dolby Atmos and DTS-X content, the 7.1 lossless core will be used)
I have been using a similar setup for more than a decade and will probably never go back to AVRs

Edit: Jriver also has a WDM driver in Windows, meaning that audio coming from any other software source (like Google Chrome, Tidal, etc) can also be routed through Jriver's DSP engine)

Does Netflix work in 5.1 on a computer (Mac)?

 

[muslhead]

This spec might give me pause on the Emotiva.
THD < 0.05% from 20 Hz to 20 kHz

That is only -66 db. This getting into marginal range. I have no idea why it would be this poor in a line level 2 volt output device. They claim -85 db at 1 khz. I've found their products in processors to be marginal.

I would include the fact they are buggy and their support to fix the bugs is horrid. I can attest from first hand experience with my current existing pre/pro of theirs I own

 

[ppataki]

Does Netflix work in 5.1 on a computer (Mac)?

I am using Windows 11 so unfortunately I cannot comment on the Mac

In Windows the WDM driver does support multichannel so if the given app supports multichannel then it will work

 

[mkt]

I am using Windows 11 so unfortunately I cannot comment on the Mac

In Windows the WDM driver does support multichannel so if the given app supports multichannel then it will work

Are you able to get multichannel with any of the streaming services? That is a gap for me.

 

[ppataki]

Are you able to get multichannel with any of the streaming services? That is a gap for me.

Based on this it shall work:

NEW: Netflix Navigation

NEW: Netflix Navigation

yabb.jriver.com

Although I have not tested it since I don't use streaming (only downloads)