Is there a simple multichannel solution for 5.1/5.2 audio with DSP that is NOT an AVR?

[Sal1950]

That Emotiva unit looks interesting - kind of an update on the UMC-200 I still have (in storage), and likely no better performing.

As others have mentioned I'd stay away from Emotiva, too many possible issues.

As to the rest of the HTPC, if that's your idea of fun, have at it.
I was into it some years back but tired of spending more time tweaking than listening to music.

 

[Chrise36]

It seems that Nvidia Shield can handle Atmos and supports stereo usb out. The question is if it can do multichannel lpcm out to a Minidsp Flex 8 for example. I read also tha KODI and VLC can do it in Android boxes. Netflix does only DD+ not TrueHD. If someone has any experience about this please comment.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

IDK what you mean by elegant, but I run a 5.1 Setup consisting of the following: Mele Quieter 3 Windows PC, running Windows11, a variety of streaming apps (Netflix, Tubi, Qobuz, etc), JRiver Media Center 30 with Dirac Live, an Octo Research Dac 8 Pro (the Topping 8 channel USB Dac would work just as well), Purifi Eval 1, LS 50 Metas, Kef HTC 3001 SE powered by Aiyima A7, Kef OG LS 50's for SL and SR, powered by a Behringer A500 Amp, two SVS SB 2000's & an LG C1 55 with HDR video rendered via HDMI from the Quieter 3. The set up will work for all ripped digital files and all streaming Video and Audio apps. With no AV receiver in sight. I control the Mele with a Logitech remote keyboard, and an Apple remote controls the Octo while the C1 runs with its out of box remote.

 

[HooStat]

IDK what you mean by elegant, but I run a 5.1 Setup consisting of the following: Mele Quieter 3 Windows PC, running Windows11, a variety of streaming apps (Netflix, Tubi, Qobuz, etc), JRiver Media Center 30 with Dirac Live, an Octo Research Dac 8 Pro (the Topping 8 channel USB Dac would work just as well), Purifi Eval 1, LS 50 Metas, Kef HTC 3001 SE powered by Aiyima A7, Kef OG LS 50's for SL and SR, powered by a Behringer A500 Amp, two SVS SB 2000's & an LG C1 55 with HDR video rendered via HDMI from the Quieter 3. The set up will work for all ripped digital files and all streaming Video and Audio apps. With no AV receiver in sight. I control the Mele with a Logitech remote keyboard, and an Apple remote controls the Octo while the C1 runs with its out of box remote.

That is pretty impressive to get all of that dialed in and controlled by a remote.

In terms of "elegant" I was thinking of something more along the lines of Apple TV -> ??? -> speakers where "???" is a 1-box (or 2-box) solution. And that everything could be run off the Apple remote. But I am certainly open to other ideas of similar simplicity.

 

[HooStat]

That is a good point. Genelec is not inexpensive. But it definitely seems to work.

Interestingly, one can route multichannel analog signals through the sub without the 9301 (as far as I can tell). In that case, one could run the Apple TV HDMI output through one of the other options with analog outputs and run those through the sub. That would save a good bit of money.

It looks like Genelec subs are the main weakness because they are primarily analog devices from a connections perspective, and they require a $1000 box to replace the built-in 7-channel analog input functionality with similar digital input functionality. It would be nice if Genelec subs would have the same functionality they use in their monitors and allow an analog OR digital input. Seems like a big, expensive oversight. It is a shame because their subs are expensive already.

Maybe the optimal solution is actually an analog solution with Genelec (or something else active). With something like the Evolve II and some RCA to XLR connectors, one can use an Apple TVE + a single $350 device to run analog signals straight to the sub(s) and monitors. (Someone else also mentioned the same idea with a used Oppo 103 too.) That saves almost $2,000 compared to trying to do it all digital.

I know some people get upset at AD/DA conversions, but I personally don't see the issue. But that issue has already been discussed ad nauseum on these forums. The point is that for the price of an AD/DA conversion, a cheap box can permit many more options.

 

[chelgrian]

It looks like Genelec subs are the main weakness because they are primarily analog devices from a connections perspective, and they require a $1000 box to replace the built-in 7-channel analog input functionality with similar digital input functionality. It would be nice if Genelec subs would have the same functionality they use in their monitors and allow an analog OR digital input. Seems like a big, expensive oversight. It is a shame because their subs are expensive already.

Maybe the optimal solution is actually an analog solution with Genelec (or something else active). With something like the Evolve II and some RCA to XLR connectors, one can use an Apple TVE + a single $350 device to run analog signals straight to the sub(s) and monitors. (Someone else also mentioned the same idea with a used Oppo 103 too.) That saves almost $2,000 compared to trying to do it all digital.

I know some people get upset at AD/DA conversions, but I personally don't see the issue. But that issue has already been discussed ad nauseum on these forums. The point is that for the price of an AD/DA conversion, a cheap box can permit many more options.

I did suggest on the gearspace thread when the latest Genelec AES box was announced that having a multichannel audio input on it USB, audio only HDMI, etc on it would be useful but got shot down, how dare I suggest that having fewer boxes thus the full system being hundreds to thousands of dollars cheaper might be a good thing :/

 

[phoenixdogfan]

That is pretty impressive to get all of that dialed in and controlled by a remote.

In terms of "elegant" I was thinking of something more along the lines of Apple TV -> ??? -> speakers where "???" is a 1-box (or 2-box) solution. And that everything could be run off the Apple remote. But I am certainly open to other ideas of similar simplicity.

Thing about using an ATV is you can't use any DSP for the sound. Plus I have an NVIDIA shield which feeds my Smyth A16 Realizer, which is a headphone processsor. The NVIDIA, which is very similar to the ATV sends a bitstream to the processsor via HDMI. It then needs to be decoded into LPCM which usually requires either an AV Receiver or AV Control Center which bundles a processor with the DACS for the channels decoded. A PC OTOH can decode filess and streaming services like Netflix, render HDR 4k video (at least the newer ones can), and send LPCM sound streams to a mulltichannel DAC after it's been decoded and DSP'd. So while a PC is not as elegant, it is more powerful in terms of its functionality. The Mele Quieter 3 is fanlesss, costs $260 on Amazon, and can do Netflix 5.1 while running JRiver, and do HDR 4K video at 24 fps, which is native rate for 99 percent of Netflix. No lipsync issues and a gorgeous picture.

 

[Chrise36]

Thing about using an ATV is you can't use any DSP for the sound. Plus I have an NVIDIA shield which feeds my Smyth A16 Realizer, which is a headphone processsor. The NVIDIA, which is very similar to the ATV sends a bitstream to the processsor via HDMI. It then needs to be decoded into LPCM which usually requires either an AV Receiver or AV Control Center which bundles a processor with the DACS for the channels decoded. A PC OTOH can decode filess and streaming services like Netflix, render HDR 4k video (at least the newer ones can), and send LPCM sound streams to a mulltichannel DAC after it's been decoded and DSP'd. So while a PC is not as elegant, it is more powerful in terms of its functionality. The Mele Quieter 3 is fanlesss, costs $260 on Amazon, and can do Netflix 5.1 while running JRiver, and do HDR 4K video at 24 fps, which is native rate for 99 percent of Netflix. No lipsync issues and a gorgeous picture.

Do you have the shield pro? Rumor has it it can output 5.1 pcm in Plex or Kodi from usb

 

[HooStat]

Thing about using an ATV is you can't use any DSP for the sound.

The Genelecs have DSP built in, as do the Neumann. But it is a pretty short list of other DSP options available beyond those two (as far as I know).

 

[phoenixdogfan]

Do you have the shield pro? Rumor has it it can output 5.1 pcm in Plex or Kodi from usb

Have the regular shield. I can run and do run Kodi as a desk top app on my Mele.

 

[chelgrian]

The Genelecs have DSP built in, as do the Neumann. But it is a pretty short list of other DSP options available beyond those two (as far as I know).

The latest Adam monitors in combination with Sonarworks I think, however dunno if they work with the multichannel or just stereo.

At the low end of the cost bracket relatively speaking iLoud MTM.

That's about it, I suspect we'll see more manufacturers who don't have the expertise in house put a DSP board compatible with Sonarworks in and either bundle Sonarworks or require the user to buy it to make use of the DSP.

 

[SoundsGood64]

I recently found that Kodi (LibreELEC install on Intel i5 laptop) could playback both .flac (->PCM) and .dsf (->DSD->PCM) files in gapless fashion over the local network, including 2.0ch, 5.0ch, and 5.1ch files. It was surprising enough, at least to me, so I posted:

Multi-channel DSD playback

Hi guys, in my collection I have a few multi-channel DSD albums, when I play from Audirvana looks like it’s been down sampled to 2 channels. My question is how to play multi-channel DSD in bit-perfect way (I have 5.1 setup)? Most DACs seem to only support 2 channels. Maybe an AV receiver is...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Just noting here given that it seems to be a relatively simple solution for streaming 5.1ch audio gaplessly, although in my use case there's an AVR where DSP is made easy.

 

[abdo123]

I saw an X4500 Denon AVR being sold for 600 euros. Check your used markets online and in person.

 

[Chrise36]

From further research Tidal and Apple Music multichannel are lossy like the majority of streaming video services. Lossless apparently only on Bluray (or download).

 

[Chrise36]

Have the regular shield. I can run and do run Kodi as a desk top app on my Mele.

Have you tested its usb out?

 

[SpaceMonkey]

I like this unit from Canton:

Smart Connect 5.1

www.canton.de

and slightly older unit exists as well (even cheaper):

Smart Connect 5.1

www.canton.de

Haven't used it though.

 

[chelgrian]

From further research Tidal and Apple Music multichannel are lossy like the majority of streaming video services. Lossless apparently only on Bluray (or download).

Even Apple Music downloads for Atmos are lossy compressed.

The only place that TrueHD lossless is used is for Atmos on Blu-ray/UHD Blu-ray. Even there it's compressing away spatial resolution for the objects with respect to the original ADM master.

 

[tehas]

@FrantzM is right - go for an AVR and use as a pre-amp, there's too many compromises otherwise, all (in my opinion) caused by codec licensing and piracy prevention.

For those that want to stream, PCs will not be allowed to get dynamic HDR content from streaming services - netflix will not do dolby vision. Getting 4k itself working is a major pain - for evidence, simply google "how to get 4k working on netflix windows 10" and see the number of times people have struggled with it. I have experience with this too and still haven't gotten it working. @phoenixdogfan has done well to get his setup working, my experience has not been so good (could also be that I'm using an older pc and older graphics card - gtx 1050)

Dolby vision requires the underlying hardware to be licensed, and I suspect (but don't know for sure) HDR10+, the competing standard, requires this too. So you wont see general purpose PCs having this. only wholly integrated PCs like a lenovo laptop can have this (lenovo laptops have a specific drivers, pqdisplay.sys that enables DV). On the mac side, a mac mini plus an apple pro display will get dolby vision content, and no other combination (eg not with an LG OLED).

PCs can decode DD+ which is lossy dolby, and generate atmos content if that matters - @VoidX has written Cavern which does this. But I don't think TrueHD which is lossless has been decoded on PC, please correct me if I'm mistaken. And the same for its rival DTS-MA. generating spatial sound is also possible in some circumstances.
Edit - just discovered that jriver can indeed decode TrueHD, just cant generate object audio from it: https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Blu-ray#HD_Audio Thats cool !

 

[tehas]

@Sal1950 and @Neddy there seems to be an entire niche of folks building clone oppos out of hongkong, with the same underlying hardware and firmware to enable full bluray decode and playback from ISO. Group buys are coordinated thru this forum: https://foro.avpasion.com/t/reprodu...uevos-chinoppo-clon-oppo-203-y-oppo-205.2431/

Another option for something similar seems to be Zidoo or Dune Players eg https://www.zidoo.tv/ which can effectively replicate the functionality of Oppos - playback of blurays, support for all DV and HDR10+ profiles etc.

I have no personal experience with these, but am leaning towards a Zidoo over persisting with my htpc. (Edit - this will bitstream audio to an AVR of course)

 

[SoundsGood64]

@Sal1950 and @Neddy there seems to be an entire niche of folks building clone oppos out of hongkong, with the same underlying hardware and firmware to enable full bluray decode and playback from ISO. Group buys are coordinated thru this forum: https://foro.avpasion.com/t/reprodu...uevos-chinoppo-clon-oppo-203-y-oppo-205.2431/

Another option for something similar seems to be Zidoo or Dune Players eg https://www.zidoo.tv/ which can effectively replicate the functionality of Oppos - playback of blurays, support for all DV and HDR10+ profiles etc.

I have no personal experience with these, but am leaning towards a Zidoo over persisting with my htpc. (Edit - this will bitstream audio to an AVR of course)

Reading about the Zidoo Neo alpha at the link you provided, I'm intrigued. I wonder if the Zidoo can stream Atmos audio from commercial streaming like Apple, Amazon Prime Video, Tidal etc. It looks much nicer than my old laptop running Kodi (post 52 above)....probably a lot more expensive though. Like my Kodi set up, the Zidoo can reportedly stream 5.1 multichannel audio via HDMI, including that originating from DSD files. Unlike Kodi on the laptop, the Zidoo has a special HDMI for DSD which it can send out. However, the Zidoo website does not indicate whether the multichannel audio it streams from a local network is gapless, which is a key advantage of Kodi. Gapless multichannel audio over the network is not to be assumed.