Integrated stereo amplifier with bass-management?

[posvibes]

This might go close?

ELAC EA Series Integrated Amplifier, Silver (EA101EQ-G) : Amazon.com.au: Electronics

ELAC EA Series Integrated Amplifier, Silver (EA101EQ-G) : Amazon.com.au: Electronics

www.amazon.com.au

 

[sarumbear]

First off I haven't read the whole thread so sorry if this has already been mentioned:

It doesn't quite tick all the boxes but I think it's worth mentioning as it makes a pretty good go of it for a very low price and that's the SMSL A300. It has everything apart from the 'adjustable subwoofer crossover frequency' however it does have a high pass filter. There seems to be quite a lot of devices that fit the spec apart from the (adjustable) crossover, it does seem odd to have all these amps with sub outs but no way to cut the low frequencies from the main speakers.

First of all thank you!

Having a HP at 50Hz is a pretty silly. It is a useless choice for a type of speaker that you would pair with this amplifier. Otherwise, as you said it ticks all the boxes bar the adjustable subwoofer crossover frequency.

Why would they LP at 100Hz but HP at 50Hz? Haven't they heard the meaning of the word cross-over?

 

[sarumbear]

This might go close?

ELAC EA Series Integrated Amplifier, Silver (EA101EQ-G) : Amazon.com.au: Electronics

ELAC EA Series Integrated Amplifier, Silver (EA101EQ-G) : Amazon.com.au: Electronics

www.amazon.com.au

Too expensive.

 

[TK750]

First of all thank you!

Having a HP at 50Hz is a pretty silly. It is a useless choice for a type of speaker that you would pair with this amplifier. Otherwise, as you said it ticks all the boxes bar the adjustable subwoofer crossover frequency.

Why would they LP at 100Hz but HP at 50Hz? Haven't they heard the meaning of the word cross-over?

No problem =], yes I did notice that which is pretty baffling. I don't understand why they would go to the trouble to include the feature but then not bother to implement it properly!

 

[posvibes]

Too expensive.

They are Australian dollars!

 

[brandonhall]

The BlueSound PowerNode checks all the boxes except maybe the volume control (although holding down buttons sends it up and down) and you get HDMI eARC (audio only) as well.

 

[sarumbear]

They are Australian dollars!

Thank you for the correction. I apologise for my carelessness.

 

[djtetei]

Having a HP at 50Hz is a pretty silly. It is a useless choice for a type of speaker that you would pair with this amplifier.

In this setup, the 50 Hz high-pass filter is not silly, because it is ment to be used with the main speakers filtering out the big power hungry wavelengths from the low end, making it easier, both for the main speakers and the amplifier, while still maintaining a tonal balance. If you have a competent subwoofer, able the accurately play one octave lower, down to 25, you won't regret having the posibility to play it louder, if need be.

 

[sarumbear]

In this setup, the 50 Hz high-pass filter is not silly, because it is ment to be used with the main speakers filtering out the big power hungry wavelengths from the low end, making it easier, both for the main speakers and the amplifier, while still maintaining a tonal balance. If you have a competent subwoofer, able the accurately play one octave lower, down to 25, you won't regret having the posibility to play it louder.

May I remind you the concept of a cross-over. The word cross is used to explain that LP and HP frequencies cross over each other like the letter X. This makes the sum of the signal reaching to both speakers flat. In your suggestion that is not the case. You are basically suggesting a round-about method of equalisation, not a cross-over.

Allow me to explain why I say 50Hz is a silly choice. A 2.1. system that this amplifier offers is mainly for small speakers that has little bass response where the addition of a subwoofer is required for a satisfying bass response. Such speakers often do not go as low as 50Hz. Therefore there is no point to cut them at 50Hz, they are cut-off inherently before that. In fact if a speaker has f3 at 50Hz, the chances are you will not need a subwoofer in most cases. If you will offer a fixed frequency HP offer it at 80Hz. That way not only you offer something useful that matches most small speakers but have the added bonus of saying: "as per the THX standard".

 

[djtetei]

Consider the product design and target market. Of course there are speakers able to play down to 50 Hz and if someone has such speakers it will take advantage of their full frequency response and use the subwoofer only to fill for the mains, not to dominate them.
On the other hand, If you have a pair of main speakers which are not able to reach down to 50 Hz, you keep the amplifier in question to full mode (high-pass filter off) and feed it the needed frequency range for your speakers from a dedicated external crossover, connected in front of the amplifier, and the rest of the low end frequency range will be sent to passive or active subwoofer or subwoofers of your choice..

 

[sarumbear]

Consider the product design and target market. Of course there are speakers able to play down to 50 Hz and if someone has such speakers it will take advantage of their full frequency response and use the subwoofer only to fill for the mains, not to dominate them.
On the other hand, If you have a pair of main speakers which are not able to reach down to 50 Hz, you keep the amplifier in question to full mode (high-pass filter off) and feed it the needed frequency range for your speakers from a dedicated external crossover, connected in front of the amplifier, and the rest of the low end frequency range will be sent to passive or active subwoofer or subwoofers of your choice..

You are missing the point of a crossover. As I said earlier a crossover is not an EQ. A 2.1. system is a bass managed stereo system. The method is defined, it is stereo active crossover with the LP out summed to mono out. There is no point arguing if the concept is not adhered to as it will be wrong, hence my choice of word "silly".

 

[djtetei]

If you will offer a fixed frequency HP offer it at 80Hz. That way not only you offer something useful that matches most small speakers but have the added bonus of saying: "as per the THX standard"

Having that filter fixed to 80 Hz puts me into a difficulty if I already have main speakers capable of playing down to 50 Hz and like how they sound like that. I may want a subwoofer only for filling the sub low end. The THX standard doesn't appeal to me, because I'm not hard into movies, and that value of 80 Hz was chosen precisely because many satellite speakers don't have the capability to play lower than 80 Hz, making it easy to fit them weaker amplifiers.
Regarding the 2.1 configuration, personally I never use it, because it's a poor man's way of adding some more low end to a weak system. Given the fact that I listen to a lot of music, including compositions with stereo bass, I always use minimum two subwoofers, connected in stereo mode and crossed over as low as my main speakers capability allow it.

 

[sarumbear]

Having that filter fixed to 80 Hz puts me into a difficulty if I already have main speakers capable of playing down to 50 Hz and like how they sound like that. I may want a subwoofer only for filling the sub low end. The THX standard doesn't appeal to me, because I'm not hard into movies, and that value of 80 Hz was chosen precisely because many satellite speakers don't have the capability to play lower than 80 Hz, making it easy to fit them weaker amplifiers.

That means this amplifier is not suitable for you anyway.

You are correct that THX choose 80Hz for the reason you state but that has no relation to the argument that this amplifier (SMSL) is not fit for the purpose. I only mentioned THX because at least they could have a marketing reason if they had set both filters at 80Hz.

If this amplifier had an adjustable crossover frequency that correctly matches the LP and HP f3 points you could have set yours at 50Hz and done with it. However, as this amplifier's designers were in coocoo land when they were setting the filter frequencies, nobody can use this amplifier in a 2.1 setup.

 

[MCH]

In parallel sabaj released the A20a 2022 that has variable low pass but not high pass (?!).
If feels that more sooner than later we are are going to have one of these small cheap amps/dacs with both variable low and high pass. Looking forward to it

 

[sarumbear]

In parallel sabaj released the A20a 2022 that has variable low pass but not high pass (?!).
If feels that more sooner than later we are are going to have one of these small cheap amps/dacs with both variable low and high pass. Looking forward to it

Variable HP should be enough as all subwoofers have a variable LP to complement the HP. Can you please link to the amplifier you mention.

 

[MCH]

Agree, hence the "?!"
There you go,

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[TK750]

Variable HP should be enough as all subwoofers have a variable LP to complement the HP. Can you please link to the amplifier you mention.

I believe this is the one: http://www.sabaj.com.cn/en/productshow.asp?id=92

 

[sarumbear]

I believe this is the one: http://www.sabaj.com.cn/en/productshow.asp?id=92

It says it has an adjustable LP filter, not a HP filter. That is not useful as there is no crossover and what is the point? Almost all subwoofers have an adjustable LP filter.

 

[TK750]

It says it has an adjustable LP filter, not a HP filter. That is not useful as there is no crossover and what is the point? Almost all subwoofers have an adjustable LP filter.

I totally agree, it makes no sense to me =S

 

[sarumbear]

I totally agree, it makes no sense to me =S

Also, the use of a single XLR, wired as stereo unbalanced is a very odd choice.