If "Tube Sound" Is a Myth, Why Tubes?

[jsrtheta]

Can't they make vacuum tubes with internals that look like a classic sailing ship? You know, a 'ship in a bottle' look. If someone did that, it would justify the high price of some of these amps haha! People could debate the relative sonic merits of a brigantine, frigate, galleon, schooner, caravel, etc. What fun!

Sure they could. But you'd have to stand the amp on its side to get the full effect.

 

[solderdude]

just pop it in this one

 

[cjfrbw]

Can't they make vacuum tubes with internals that look like a classic sailing ship? You know, a 'ship in a bottle' look. If someone did that, it would justify the high price of some of these amps haha! People could debate the relative sonic merits of a brigantine, frigate, galleon, schooner, caravel, etc. What fun!

You really only want an amp that works properly at high tide?

 

[scott wurcer]

Here we go! Something to wean the tube lovers so they don't have nostalgia panic:

https://positive-feedback.com/revie...oduction-vivace-gantube-monoblock-amplifiers/

Is it even evacuated, is the getter fake? GaN class D amps are not news BTW, there is also the fact that putting a normal circuit inside an evacuated chamber is a horrible thermal situation.

 

[watchnerd]

Is it even evacuated, is the getter fake? GaN class D amps are not news BTW, there is also the fact that putting a normal circuit inside an evacuated chamber is a horrible thermal situation.

As useful as tits on a boar.

 

[ahofer]

Just recently, Alan Shaw of Harbeth took apart the measurements of a primaluna amp. @March Audio makes an appearance down-thread to do a similar job on an AR.

https://www.harbeth.co.uk/usergroup...th-shl5-minimum-power.77411/page-7#post-80254

In particular I like the hand-written notations on the subjective terms to describe the colorations of the Primaluna:
https://www.harbeth.co.uk/usergroup/attachments/less-morre-jpg.79673/

 

[orangejello]

Is it even evacuated, is the getter fake? GaN class D amps are not news BTW, there is also the fact that putting a normal circuit inside an evacuated chamber is a horrible thermal situation.

I talked to those guys at the Rocky Mountain Audio Fest a few weeks ago (and listened to their amp). Apparently they have some kind of filament that glows when the "tube" is plugged in. After a discussion with one of the reps, which was really confusing because the company is Italian and I don't speak Italian, I think he copped to the silly reason that they put the circuit in a tube. It seems that it was done because it was cool and evocative of the notion of a tube amp and all that that connotes. That was the only cogent reason he gave. You can actually remove the tube (circuit) from the tube socket - go figure. I very much doubt that the tube is evacuated. There is no reason for it to be. But the "filament" glows.

So simply put - Italian "styling" seems to be the main, if not the only motivation.

As for the sound of the amp - what can I say? It was an Audio Fest and therefore the amp was being played uncomfortably loudly.

 

[scott wurcer]

As for the sound of the amp - what can I say? It was an Audio Fest and therefore the amp was being played uncomfortably loudly.

The usual.

 

[watchnerd]

By the way, I'm in the midst of building a collection of 10 different pairs of 6DJ8 to be used in phono stage tube rolling shoot-out. My thought was to make rips and post on ASR, let people vote via polling.

Since 10 is too many to compare at once, I'd probably have to run it as a bracketed competition, a la World Cup.

 

[scott wurcer]

By the way, I'm in the midst of building a collection of 10 different pairs of 6DJ8 to be used in phono stage tube rolling shoot-out. My thought was to make rips and post on ASR, let people vote via polling.

Keep us informed. I still do LP and have no shame.

 

[Blumlein 88]

By the way, I'm in the midst of building a collection of 10 different pairs of 6DJ8 to be used in phono stage tube rolling shoot-out. My thought was to make rips and post on ASR, let people vote via polling.

Since 10 is too many to compare at once, I'd probably have to run it as a bracketed competition, a la World Cup.

Maybe you should have a loser's bracket like pro volley ball. That way an early looser could come back for the win in the finals.

When you get the files loaded, we can also run them through deltawave. Holding the results until you finish your polling.

 

[JP]

The op-amps in the front end are a little marginal, possibly JR and SY can put me in the loop for a look at it.

Sure @SIY can send to you when he’s done with it.

 

[watchnerd]

Maybe you should have a loser's bracket like pro volley ball. That way an early looser could come back for the win in the finals.

When you get the files loaded, we can also run them through deltawave. Holding the results until you finish your polling.

Just to make the bracket math work, I know we'll have to have a "wild card", at a minimum.

Round 1: 10 tubes = 5 1:1 matches = 5 winners

Round 2: 5 winners + 1 wild card = 2 groups of 3 (take top 2) = 4 finalists

I'll leave the deltawave analysis to the community; I'm going to have my hands full just making all the rips and attempting level matching.

Might it be interesting to analyze the dead air before the needle drop to see if background tube noise is picked up?

 

[Blumlein 88]

Just to make the bracket math work, I know we'll have to have a "wild card", at a minimum.

Round 1: 10 tubes = 5 1:1 matches = 5 winners

Round 2: 5 winners + 1 wild card = 2 groups of 3 (take top 2) = 4 finalists

I'll leave the deltawave analysis to the community; I'm going to have my hands full just making all the rips and attempting level matching.

Might it be interesting to analyze the dead air before the needle drop to see if background tube noise is picked up?

Yes definitely leave some dead air for a few seconds.

 

[Robin L]

I've owned, listened to enough tube gear to know it sounds different. However, I would suggest it's more about transformers than anything else. OTL tube amps sound a lot closer to solid state.

 

[Robin L]

It is perfectly fine to do to accommodate your personal preference, but as to individual differences in human ears, there is no such compensation when you hear a live concert, a human voice or a dog barking - wouldn't you want the reproduction of the recorded version to sound the same as the original one?

How the hell could you tell? Were you in the room where the producer was sitting in front of the monitors? NO? Than you can't know anyway.

 

[watchnerd]

I've owned, listened to enough tube gear to know it sounds different. However, I would suggest it's more about transformers than anything else. OTL tube amps sound a lot closer to solid state.

My phono stage has a power supply transformer, a triode gain stage, a passive RIAA EQ stage, and another triode gain stage.

[I think...It definitely has only 2 x 6DJ8 tubes, and I'm pretty darn sure the RIAA lies between the two in the circuit.]

There are no rectifier tubes, and I believe it is mostly feedbackless. There is also no way to adjust the bias.

Predictions about how that might sound vs SS?

 

[thejck]

i was in search of a tube preamp when I came across this forum and have enjoyed the reading on here. Glad I found this thread and also some of the DAC reviews.
With a high quality dac that doubles as a preamp, does it even need to have a seperate preamp to feed a seperate power amp? Can the dac do both just perfect and eliminate another potential for a different electronic signature of another component.
In my case all my music is stored in lossless flac format as well as tidal etc..and I do not have any other sources.

 

[SIY]

Sure @SIY can send to you when he’s done with it.

Be happy to. It's a very slick little box.

 

[DonH56]

How the hell could you tell? Were you in the room where the producer was sitting in front of the monitors? NO? Than you can't know anyway.

Of course not. But, we can choose to have a playback system that faithfully reproduces the recording, presumably matching the final mix the mastering engineer decided upon, or we can throw it all out and say nothing matters except to shape the sound the way we prefer it irregardless of the recording (or the original performance). Both are a preference.