If "Tube Sound" Is a Myth, Why Tubes?

[MattHooper]

^This^.

Yes, certainly could be.

Though....expectation bias remains an uncontrolled variable until it is identified as THE significant variable and source of the perceived differences.
In other words: could be sighted bias, could be real sonic differences perceived, but before doing blind tests, you can't tell which.

Out of curiosity, do you think that for sure the explanation for why I hear a difference between my tube amps and solid state amps is sighted bias, and if so why?

 

[MattHooper]

Tube emulation plugin

Barely appropos of this, but it was fun checking out a blind test online between 3 guitar amp sounds - real tube amp, tube emulator software, and a solid state amp. Before knowing which was which, and going over the sounds several times before the reveal, one sounded just right to me, another oddly crunchy and off-putting, the other not as good as the first. Turns out I had preferred the tube amp sound. The off-putting amp was using the tube emulation software.

 

[SIY]

Out of curiosity, do you think that for sure the explanation for why I hear a difference between my tube amps and solid state amps is sighted bias, and if so why?

In a cosmic sense, no. As a practical matter, it is far and away the most likely. There's no magic in electronics, there's just basic physics. Things like frequency response are demonstrably hearable.

And as a personal experience matter, I've designed, built, and listened to a lot of tube amps. A lot of tube amps. And when I've done blind comparisons with frequency responses matched, the differences disappeared. Likewise, other folks have done the same thing with the same result.

Get frequency response correct, have distortion somewhere under "gross," and run things within their power limits, and amplifier differences disappear under ears-only testing, irrespective of any of the things audiophiles rhapsodize about (active devices, capacitor types, wires, CFA versus VFA topologies...). So until the #1 cause of perceived differences is eliminated (sighted bias), it makes no sense to speculate over other possible causes unknown to engineers.

 

[MattHooper]

Good stuff, thanks SIY. Maybe some day I'll get around to bind testing my tube amps vs solid state. For now I can't quite be arsed

(BTW, I personally wasn't speculating about causes unknown to engineers, I was looking at what I've read from engineers. Agreed, no woo-woo or magic involved).

 

[RayDunzl]

"An all analog design"

?

Looks like there might be a byte or two floating around in there someplace...

 

[BDWoody]

?

View attachment 32269

Looks like there might be a byte or two floating around in there someplace...

They used a sliderule and pencil for the design...?

 

[GGroch]

You've inspired me to have a silly dream, Keith! (Actually, my idea would be fun to do at a "high-end" audio show.)

I could buy a nice chassis, some hole punches, potted transformer cans, tube sockets, a filament transformer, used tubes with working filaments, and build a phony amp with tubes that glow - and a nice Hypex amp module and SMPS hidden in the chassis...

James Johnston executed a very similar (and hilarious) experiment when he was in college. He set up a very visible (but not functional) tube amp, a solid state amp, and a switch between them that actually did nothing. He talks about it here (view for a couple of minutes for the story). You can guess which amp the audiophiles preferred, and which the engineers preferred.

It illustrates an important point. In listening as in life we never isolate our biases from our experiences. Not necessarily a bad thing. For me, it explains completely why I enjoy tube amps. Whether there is an actual sonic improvement is beside the point.

 

[watchnerd]

?

View attachment 32269

Looks like there might be a byte or two floating around in there someplace...

I'll let them skate by assuming they meant 'all analog audio path'......

After all, it also comes with a remote control.

 

[cjfrbw]

Here we go! Something to wean the tube lovers so they don't have nostalgia panic:

AGD Production Vivace GaNTube Monoblock Amplifiers

https://positive-feedback.com/revie...oduction-vivace-gantube-monoblock-amplifiers/

 

[watchnerd]

Here we go! Something to wean the tube lovers so they don't have nostalgia panic:

AGD Production Vivace GaNTube Monoblock AmplifiersView attachment 32297

https://positive-feedback.com/revie...oduction-vivace-gantube-monoblock-amplifiers/

What the....

It seems to use a PCB stuffed in a bottle:

The GaNTube doesn't seem to have emitters.

It's like a fancy version of the Schiit LISST.

 

[Hugo9000]

Can't they make vacuum tubes with internals that look like a classic sailing ship? You know, a 'ship in a bottle' look. If someone did that, it would justify the high price of some of these amps haha! People could debate the relative sonic merits of a brigantine, frigate, galleon, schooner, caravel, etc. What fun!

 

[Wombat]

Can't they make vacuum tubes with internals that look like a classic sailing ship? You know, a 'ship in a bottle' look. If someone did that, it would justify the high price of some of these amps haha! People could debate the relative sonic merits of a brigantine, frigate, galleon, schooner, caravel, etc. What fun!

......… Clipper, Lugger, Smack, Windjammer or Junk? Barque for guitar amps.

 

[Pluto]

One issue I'm still stuck on is correlating the explanations for "tube sound" with my subjective impressions

See this post

 

[LuckyLuke575]

This one?

Yes, exactly

 

[cjfrbw]

Heh, Heh! The AGD GaNTube isn't a tube at all. It contains the ultra fast gallium nitride MOSFETs for a Class D amplifier.

New 'tubes' could be manufactured with updated components. The tube look is strictly decorative and a talisman of 'tube conquest at last' by a class D amplifier (in theory, at least).

 

[cjfrbw]

See this post

Yes, the concept of tubes generally being gorgeous compressors seems to hold well. Studio engineers would feel crippled without their limiters and compressors.

 

[watchnerd]

Heh, Heh! The AGD GaNTube isn't a tube at all. It contains the ultra fast gallium nitride MOSFETs for a Class D amplifier.

New 'tubes' could be manufactured with updated components. The tube look is strictly decorative and a talisman of 'tube conquest at last' by a class D amplifier (in theory, at least).

Yes, it's just transistors (very nice ones) in a bottle.

Makes me wonder how maintenance works.

Do you have to break the bottle?

 

[Julf]

Are you sure it isn't a prop from the set of "Metrolopolis"?

 

[pkane]

"Tube sound" measured

 

[watchnerd]

"Tube sound" measured

I've used one of these before with mics and bass pickups:

Turn the bottom knob to the right to get more tube.

It comes with JJ ECC83, but you can tube roll it to other 12AX7 types.