Just for the fun of it how good are these? I'm always on my PC so i'd love to give them a try i guess its probably just a EQ? Is their a way to make everything sound like that with a on and off switch?
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If "Tube Sound" Is a Myth, Why Tubes?
- Thread starter watchnerd
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Just for the fun of it how good are these? I'm always on my PC so i'd love to give them a try i guess its probably just a EQ? Is their a way to make everything sound like that with a on and off switch?
They seem OK but I haven't got a wide experience of different effects.
They are mainly to emulate different old bits of recording gear.
If the transfer function of the device they are emulating is accurately measured then the plug-in will give exactly the same sound as that device when played through transparent electronics.
I have a hard time understanding tube DSPs. If a Hi-Fi tube amp (not a guitar amp) is working well it is difficult if not impossible to ABX against a SS amp that is working well.... the exception being some low impedance speaker loads interact will interact with the high output impedance of a tube amp but that is speaker specific and something DSP would not lend it's self to. It is easier to just add a high watt 1 ohm resistor in line with the speakers if you are after that effect.
To me the fun of tube amps is similar to that of vinyl. It is amazing that such old and obsolete technologies can sound as good and transparent as they do. In addition it is an adventure every time you turn a tube amp on.... watching it come to life as the tubes light up and hoping as it warms up something doesn't fail and send terrible sounds through the speakers. Once up and running it is almost impossible to not have psycho-acoustic expectation bias kick in and be amazed by the "warm" and "smooth" sound.... this is especially true if you are trying to impress your friends and neighbors. You will not get the same effect with a tube DSP.
If you want to experiment with tubes I would recommend getting a "real" tube amp (not a hybrid tube SS/ amp) with a rectifier tube (preferably vintage so you know it is well made, repairable, and easy to sell) and be amazed it works and see for your self what "real tube" sound is. I think you will find there is a very strong expectations bias and the tube amp will sound different but if you actually tried a legit ABX test you may also be amazed you can't tell it apart from a SS amp.
To me the fun of tube amps is similar to that of vinyl. It is amazing that such old and obsolete technologies can sound as good and transparent as they do. In addition it is an adventure every time you turn a tube amp on.... watching it come to life as the tubes light up and hoping as it warms up something doesn't fail and send terrible sounds through the speakers. Once up and running it is almost impossible to not have psycho-acoustic expectation bias kick in and be amazed by the "warm" and "smooth" sound.... this is especially true if you are trying to impress your friends and neighbors. You will not get the same effect with a tube DSP.
If you want to experiment with tubes I would recommend getting a "real" tube amp (not a hybrid tube SS/ amp) with a rectifier tube (preferably vintage so you know it is well made, repairable, and easy to sell) and be amazed it works and see for your self what "real tube" sound is. I think you will find there is a very strong expectations bias and the tube amp will sound different but if you actually tried a legit ABX test you may also be amazed you can't tell it apart from a SS amp.
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Robin L
Master Contributor
My sense is that the older all-tube designs are the center of the target for "tube sound". I've owned a Marantz 8b, also the Dynaco 70. Those have the "sound". The Scott 299 b I owned had less of that "sound". But all the tube amps I've owned glossed over detail to a greater or lesser degree. Same with tube microphones, preamps.
Of course, tube emulators are very useful with guitars.
I've used older tube guitar amp modeling gear, from 10+ years ago, and the issue then wasn't sound, they nailed the responses of different amps and the style of distortion quite well, it was the "feel" of the different amps that wasn't there. You didn't have the reactive touch sensitivity from picking the strings softly or heavily. You didn't have the same sort of feedback that old tube amps had when you moved around them. I'm sure by now they've improved on those abilities, but I haven't looked at new amps since then. So I'm sure if they could get the sound of dozens of different tube guitar amps, which vary much more than music amplifiers, right that long ago, digital modeling of the sound of home stereo amps must be pretty damn good. More than good enough for occasional fiddling about with them.
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Robin L
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mhardy6647
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oneRSampaglow
solderdude
Grand Contributor
yes, but most with a specific sound signature have to 'measure' poorly because they alter the sound.
They don't technically improve it but some folks find the 'distortion' pleasing and say it sounds better because of it.
As @chris0202 already mentioned... even with a flat FR you can still have a specific sound signature if the harmonics are high enough in amplitude and have a certain harmonic profile.
Not everyone likes that some do. Amplifiers with triodes without overall feedback are good examples of this.
They measure bad (distortion wise) but don't sound bad (to most people)
You can reach similar effects (but not exactly the same) with FET's as can be seen in this design I made (the channel imbalance is not by design
)
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John1959
Member
I listened for more than 20 years to my 300B SET amp monoblocks (8W/16 ohm) and a 100 dB/watt wide range single driver (no cross over) back loaded horn speaker (response somewhat corrected in software). Recently, I went into class D (Hypex NC502MP). Totally different concept. Still, there are more similarities in sound than differences, so what is tube sound? Of course the Hypex sounds more powerful and controlled in the bass (and also upper bass) but that's also the main difference I can tell you. Quit as expected too (500W instead of 8W). Other differences are much more subtle and I can still, after a few weeks listening, not decide which one I like most. It depends on my mood and the type of music also. They are both enjoyable amps. Maybe solo piano and voices sound a little more natural and powerful/dramatic if not played too loud with the SET but I am not sure. I can listen to music for hours with both amps without listening fatigue.
I am in the building proces of an active 3-way system so the SET is not feasible anymore. But it's nice to see how you can get good results which such different technologies from different ages.
John.
I am in the building proces of an active 3-way system so the SET is not feasible anymore. But it's nice to see how you can get good results which such different technologies from different ages.
John.
I've done similar things several times, once all I changed was the front LED from blue to yellow - most listeners (sighted and uncontrolled) said it sounded warmer...
Same thing as silver plated cables make the sound brighter than pure copper cables. Of course. Silver looks brighter. But look at how common is the perception that silver sounds brighter in the audiophilitic world.
I did not claim silver is useless. My point is that I never heard anybody say that a given silver or silver plated cable was "warmer" ;-)
Of course! I am just saying that curiously I only hear the “bright” version of the story.
Ag and Cu have different resistance but the difference is so small that Ag wires need to be only minimally thinner to offer the same resistance. I wonder how speakers and headphones may behave differently if one matches cable resistance.
I am aware of all this. These cable however also have different physical structured.
What I meant is: to get the same resistance you just need to change the cross section minimally. You just need a bit more insulation to get the same thickness around the wire, THEN you can make a cable with exactly the same geometry. So capacitance and inductance would be also nearly identical if not identical.
Would one be really able to tell the silver cable from the copper version?
Of course with different geometries and conductor distances you get sometimes even wildly different measurable values, which can also impact the sound.
for instance, I like cables with a “kimber” geometry.
solderdude
Grand Contributor
Exactly the same. Silver, contrary to popular belief, doesn't work as an equalizer favoring higher frequency (frequencies between 5kHz and 20kHz or higher). Silver cannot possibly sound 'brighter/sharper' even if it really wanted to.
short braided silver cable vs original 3m coiled Beyerdynamic cable with DT1770.
As the DT1770 is 250 Ohm cable resistance is not of any (audible) influence.
For those looking for the purple trace... it is hiding behind the teal trace so that's why you don't see it.
We are looking at acoustical measurements here b.t.w.
Oh.... harmonic distortion and CSD also did not change.
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