I2S via HDMI pinout wiring.

[gallantus]

Update.

I confirmed that native DSD over HDMI I2S works on my DAC. So this implies that the issue I am having is with the HDMI audio extractor. I ordered another one, this model supports DoP, but I am still adamant about getting the DSD over HDMI I2S to work.

Will report back.

 

[gallantus]

Update:

Got the new DoP version of this HDMI audio extractor/de-embedder.

The following are tested for stereo only, as I do not have 5.1 channel setup in my house.

1) PCM over Coaxial - Passed
2) PCM over Optical - Passed
3) PCM over HDMI I2S - Passed
4) PCM over 6-PIM I2S - NOT tested
5) DoP over Coaxial - Passed
6) DoP over Optical - Passed
7) Native DSD over HDMI I2S - Passed, however, I need to set the PLL to the highest setting to eliminate any chopping in and out and static.
8) DSD over 6-PIM I2S - NOT tested



So summary or this experiment/project:

1) I shouldn't have questioned the built quality and quality control of my LKS MH-DA004 DAC, it's a solid and reliable DAC. If you are having issues with your I2S over HDMI, please do not assume that the issue is with your DAC, it can easily be an issue with the source; which is the case with me, the first HDMI audio extractor I got was defective. Further, if your DAC has the ability to control the PLL setting, bring it to a higher setting to see if that will eliminate the static.

2) Because there are no I2S over HDMI standards, you will have to ask the DAC manufacturer and the source manufacturer for their pin out assignments and create your own HDMI cable to make the pin out assignments of both source and DAC compatible (as described in the first post of this thread). Please note, that supposedly, only one ground is needed to be connect from source and DAC. Alternatively, you can use a DAC that has the ability to switch between various different pin out assignments like the Topping or the Denafrips.

3) I recommend getting this HDMI audio extractor from a vendor on eBay with a lot of positive rating, because if you get a defective unit, it's easier to get your money back. And I recommend getting the DoP version, it costs about double as much as the non-DoP version. I was able to get a full refund and didn't have to send the defective unit back. This is the vendor I got my replacement audio extractor from, this is the DoP version.


4) You will need a 5v power supply using a 5.5mmx2.1mm DC barrel for this HDMI audio extractor. I recommend getting one that is a liner power supply which will cost you more money but it generates less noise.

5) There is a 3 position switch on this HDMI audio extractor: TV/AMP/DOU. TV would send the audio through the HDMI to your TV and will not extract the audio out. AMP, will extract stereo. DOU will extract 5.1 channel. See screenshot below.

 

[gvl]

Did you achieve a definitely better sound quality after all this hassle? Otherwise it was a waste of time, money, and bandwidth, well, and disk storage space too.

 

[gallantus]

Did you achieve a definitely better sound quality after all this hassle? Otherwise it was a waste of time, money, and bandwidth.

This is what I achieved:

1) The ability to play SACD through a good DAC without spending a lot of money. I was actually considering spending $700 on a Z-stock Arcam CDS-50, which doesn't even output DSD signals.
2) Actually test the damn I2S HDMI input on my DAC, which is something I never tested before after owning my DAC for over a year.
3) Can now confidently create my own I2S HDMI cable with whatever pin out assignment I have for any new use cases that arises.
4) Have provided valuable information to others who are (1) trying to overcome the lack of industry standards for HDMI pin out assignment (2) who also wants to use this HDMI audio extractor to play SACD.

I already rip my SACDs to DSD files, but unlike others, I don't sell my SACDs, I collect them. But having SACDs and not have the ability to play it back with a decent DAC, doesn't sit well with me.

So do you think it was well worth my money, time and effort? Probably not, but I am not doing this for you.

 

[gallantus]

Did you achieve a definitely better sound quality after all this hassle? Otherwise it was a waste of time, money, and bandwidth, well, and disk storage space too.

And yes, it does sound better than the analog signal coming out of the DAC in the cheap Sony Blu-ray player.

 

[mrmeng430]

Update:

Got the new DoP version of this HDMI audio extractor/de-embedder.

The following are tested for stereo only, as I do not have 5.1 channel setup in my house.

1) PCM over Coaxial - Passed
2) PCM over Optical - Passed
3) PCM over HDMI I2S - Passed
4) DoP over Coaxial - Passed
5) DoP over Optical - Passed
6) Native DSD over HDMI I2S - Passed, however, I need to set the PLL to the highest setting to eliminate any chopping in and out and static.


So summary or this experiment/project:

1) I shouldn't have questioned the built quality and QC of my LKS MH-DA004 DAC, it's a solid and reliable DAC. If you are having issues with your I2S over HDMI, please do not assume the issue is with your DAC, it can easily be an issue with the source; which is the case with me, the first HDMI audio extractor I got was defective. Further, if your DAC has the ability to control the PLL, bring it to a higher setting to see if that will eliminate the static.

2) Because there are no I2S over HDMI standards, you will have to ask the DAC manufacturer and the source manufacturer for their pin out assignments and create your own HDMI cable to make the pin out assignments of both source and DAC compatible (as described in the first post of this thread). Please note, that supposedly, only one ground is needed to be connect from source and DAC. Alternatively, you can use a DAC that has the ability to switch between various different pin out assignments like the Topping or the Denafrips.

3) I recommend getting this HDMI audio extractor from a vendor on eBay with a lot of positive rating, because if you get a defective unit, it's easier to get your money back. And I recommend getting the DoP version, it costs about double as much as the non-DoP version. I was able to get a full refund and didn't have to send the unit back. This is the vendor I got mine from.


4) You will need a 5v power supply using a 5.5mmx2.1mm DC barrel for this HDMI audio extractor. I recommend getting one that is a liner power supply which will cost you more money.

5) There are 3 switched on this HDMI audio extractor: TV/AMP/DOU. TV would send the audio through the HDMI to your TV and will not extract the audio out. AMP, will extract stereo. DOU will extract 5.1 channel. See diagram below.

View attachment 155948

I bought the DoP version with Coaxial out with DOP64, I connected Extractor HDMI IN from my X800 Sony,, Extractor Coaxial to my Topping DX7, my Topping flashes 48kHz on and off , no sound. Not sure what I'm doing wrong. Any ideas appreciated.

 

[gallantus]

I bought the DoP version with Coaxial out with DOP64, I connected Extractor HDMI IN from my X800 Sony,, Extractor Coaxial to my Topping DX7, my Topping flashes 48kHz on and off , no sound. Not sure what I'm doing wrong. Any ideas appreciated.

Are you using an external 5v power supply? If the answer is no, that is the first troubleshooting step.

Then are you using "AMP" setting on the switch? And does your Topping support DoP over coaxial?

 

[linger63]

I bought the DoP version with Coaxial out with DOP64, I connected Extractor HDMI IN from my X800 Sony,, Extractor Coaxial to my Topping DX7, my Topping flashes 48kHz on and off , no sound. Not sure what I'm doing wrong. Any ideas appreciated.

Check you have the right DSD output settings in your X800.

 

[mrmeng430]

Used a wal wart 4.5v power supply, no more 48khz flasing, but Topping DAC does not detect any audio. Switched to AMP setting. Yes, the DX7 Pro supports DoP over coaxial. I guess the Sony X800 does not pass DSD if the device connected (the Extractor) is not a AVR. I'll have to get a Pioneer or Oppo from this link in order to stream DSD with HDMI. Not sure I want to go to that rabbit hole, but thanks for your input, nevertheless.

 

[mrmeng430]

Check you have the right DSD output settings in your X800.

Yes, I even assign HDMI 2 for audio in the settings, no luck. Looks like it's a Sony thing. Might try an Oppo or Pioneer in the future. I'll probably keep that DoP extractor for future use.

 

[gallantus]

Used a wal wart 4.5v power supply, no more 48khz flasing, but Topping DAC does not detect any audio. Switched to AMP setting. Yes, the DX7 Pro supports DoP over coaxial. I guess the Sony X800 does not pass DSD if the device connected (the Extractor) is not a AVR. I'll have to get a Pioneer or Oppo from this link in order to stream DSD with HDMI. Not sure I want to go to that rabbit hole, but thanks for your input, nevertheless.

Per user manual, the HDMI does output DSD, you need to configure that on the player. And the player does not care if the receiving end is a receiver or a DAC, the player wouldn't know.

 

[gallantus]

Yes, I even assign HDMI 2 for audio in the settings, no luck. Looks like it's a Sony thing. Might try an Oppo or Pioneer in the future. I'll probably keep that DoP extractor for future use.

It may also be a defective unit with your extractor too.

 

[Trigital]

I use Sony x800 as renderer and I am very happy about the quality, especially when I stream with Sony Music Center for PC ( the only working app for playing DSD from my NAS).

Is connected to an old 1065 Yamaha through HDMI and DSD 64 is signaled as DSD by Yamaha and the 128 and 256 is translated in PCM 176 ( by Sony or by Yamaha, I don't know).
It will be the only solution to use HDMI extractor to feed a more modern DAC, keeping my Sony x800 as source.

Any news regarding x800 and IIS extractor?

 

[mrmeng430]

I have email the seller, they sent me a form to fill out that asks what was not working, what inputs I've tried etc. I sent back form and waiting for their reply. China is having a long holiday weekend, probably won't hear from them till Wednesday.

DACs I've tried so far with no luck: Topping DX7 Pro, SMSL M500. But both sound wonderful with PCM.
Will be trying with a Sabaj A20d DAC next week when it arrives.

 

[gallantus]

I use Sony x800 as renderer and I am very happy about the quality, especially when I stream with Sony Music Center for PC ( the only working app for playing DSD from my NAS).

Is connected to an old 1065 Yamaha through HDMI and DSD 64 is signaled as DSD by Yamaha and the 128 and 256 is translated in PCM 176 ( by Sony or by Yamaha, I don't know).
It will be the only solution to use HDMI extractor to feed a more modern DAC, keeping my Sony x800 as source.

Any news regarding x800 and IIS extractor?

I don't have any experience with that specific player, but it should work with any player though.

 

[mrmeng430]

I have email the seller, they sent me a form to fill out that asks what was not working, what inputs I've tried etc. I sent back form and waiting for their reply. China is having a long holiday weekend, probably won't hear from them till Wednesday.

DACs I've tried so far with no luck: Topping DX7 Pro, SMSL M500. But both sound wonderful with PCM.
Will be trying with a Sabaj A20d DAC next week when it arrives.

Issue resolved. Bought a used Denon DBP-2012UDCI Universal player (the audio is incredible, better than the Sony), got the HDMI in and coaxial out DOP64 converter box from China. Bought new HDMI 2.0 cable, new coaxial cable and hooked it all up, voila!! Works now. Keeping the Topping since return window closed. Returning the Sabaj as I still have return window till Nov 5. Returned the SMSL already. What a rabbit hole I was in. I guess I had two things against me in the beginning: Sony X800 player that does not send DSD if it detects a device that is not an AVR and old HDMI cable (not 2.0 version). Did not use the wal wart 4.5v power supply to get the DSD to transfer (which is great: one less device to connect). Thanks for all your input and suggestions.

 

[Trigital]

Why so much trouble for DOP? Sony or any other player can DOP out over coaxial with ease.

 

[mrmeng430]

Why so much trouble for DOP? Sony or any other player can DOP out over coaxial with ease.

Correct me if I am wrong, but the Sony X800 that I have does not send DOP over coaxial. It sends PCM over its coaxial output.

 

[raif71]

I was able to get dsd over iis using the hdmi/mhl to iis board on a Sony BDP-S370/Gustard x16. I tested both coax and the hdmi/iis output and I prefer the hdmi/iis sound better. Using the board coax out, I got 176.4khz which is better than the sony coax which can output only 44.1khz when playing sacd

 

[Trigital]

Maybe, I never use Coax, but over HDMI everything that's higher than DSD64, I think is DOP as my Yamaha display 176.4khz.


I am thinking to check the Sony PCB, maybe there is a way to find the IIS output directly from the board.