I2S via HDMI pinout wiring.

[L Plate]

Bad HDMI cable perhaps?

This help?........

Article: At Long Last! Listen To Your (Physical) SACDs Through an Outboard DAC

audiophilestyle.com

See my Feb 11 Post

"L/R channels are reversed via its I2S HDMI output.
I was able to negate this via I2S settings adjustments in my Topping D90's menu."
Do you mean change it here? See attached.

 

[linger63]

No that is for Phase.
IIRC there should be a "DSD channel" setting.........No 9 ??

 

[L Plate]

No that is for Phase.
IIRC there should be a "L/R channel" setting

Sorry mate. You lost me. I am looking at D90SE Manual. "IIRC"?

Edit: OK, just saw the No 9. I think I have done this before but didn't understand. Anyway, I will swap it to IIS DSDR DATA.
Let's see.

Edit: I have just replaced the HDMI cable from source and change the IIRC to IIS DSDR Data. The default setting is LRCLK. Still no success. Still full of static plus music.

 

[linger63]

Sorry mate. You lost me. I am looking at D90SE Manual. "IIRC"?

Edit: OK, just saw the No 9. I think I have done this before but didn't understand. Anyway, I will swap it to IIS DSDR DATA.
Let's see.

Edit: I have just replaced the HDMI cable from source and change the IIRC to IIS DSDR Data. The default setting is LRCLK. Still no success. Still full of static plus music.

IIRC just means "if I remember correctly"....
If you are still getting static then maybe your box is different to mine.
I know there was an A board and B board on Ebay and they were slightly different

You could use my old link and buy the exact same box I did or just go with a DoP box instead like I have now with my Gustard X26Pro.

 

[L Plate]

IIRC just means "if I remember correctly"....
If you are still getting static then maybe your box is different to mine.
I know there was an A board and B board on Ebay and they were slightly different

You could use my old link and buy the exact same box I did or just go with a DoP box instead like I have now with my Gustard X26Pro.

Mine is B board https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001265826217.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.2b104c4dRIfiGS. A board does not have the IIS connector except the pins with the white plastic.
I think I will just buy the DOP capable board. Not going to fuss around anymore. Too time consuming and at least I have done my best.
Thanks for your help mate. Much appreciated.

 

[L Plate]

IIRC just means "if I remember correctly"....
If you are still getting static then maybe your box is different to mine.
I know there was an A board and B board on Ebay and they were slightly different

You could use my old link and buy the exact same box I did or just go with a DoP box instead like I have now with my Gustard X26Pro.

Sorry mate. Just want to ask you what issue did you face with your dac Gustard X16 and D90? Is it just like mine with static noise using the box?
Right now, I am experiencing intermittent disruption when I play SACD in PCM mode. It's jumpy on some tracks but not all the time. Every single SACD I experienced it. Do you think it's something to do with the power that the board needs like it says 5V?

 

[linger63]

Sorry mate. Just want to ask you what issue did you face with your dac Gustard X16 and D90? Is it just like mine with static noise using the box?
Right now, I am experiencing intermittent disruption when I play SACD in PCM mode. It's jumpy on some tracks but not all the time. Every single SACD I experienced it. Do you think it's something to do with the power that the board needs like it says 5V?

I had no I2S issue getting DSD into D90 .........always worked perfectly after setting correctly in menu.
Transposed L/R DSD channel I2S issue with X16 (no menu option to fix) was solved by swapping output cables around.
I always plugged box into wall socket but should still work using 5v from HDMI connection.

Had DSD static issue with X26Pro which I solved by going with DoP.

 

[L Plate]

I had no I2S issue getting DSD into D90 .........always worked perfectly after setting correctly in menu.
Transposed L/R DSD channel I2S issue with X16 (no menu option to fix) was solved by swapping output cables around.
I always plugged box into wall socket but should still work using 5v from HDMI connection.

Had DSD static issue with X26Pro which I solved by going with DoP.

"Had DSD static issue with X26Pro which I solved by going with DoP." - That's interesting. Even your expensive X26Pro had such issue with static!
So, it's a hit and miss thingy. Either it works or go south. But why do you need to swap L/R DSD channel I2S issue with X16? Static?
Maybe, I should invest with a new player instead of going for another box. Afterall, my Oppo 93 is a dinosaur. But I will need to investigate a bit more which model actually works with D90SE. Probably, I would give Oppo a miss. Too expensive but good sound quality. I guess you must have spent more than 3K for Oppo 205.

 

[linger63]

"Had DSD static issue with X26Pro which I solved by going with DoP." - That's interesting. Even your expensive X26Pro had such issue with static!
So, it's a hit and miss thingy. Either it works or go south. But why do you need to swap L/R DSD channel I2S issue with X16? Static?
Maybe, I should invest with a new player instead of going for another box. Afterall, my Oppo 93 is a dinosaur. But I will need to investigate a bit more which model actually works with D90SE. Probably, I would give Oppo a miss. Too expensive but good sound quality. I guess you must have spent more than 3K for Oppo 205.

X26Pro or X16 or D90 don't actually have DSD issue..........using this particular I2S converter box was issue.
Had to swap output channel cables on X16 as L/R DSD channels were reversed by boxes pin out settings with no option in X16 menu to correct (unlike D90)
ALL converter boxes are "slaves" with NON adjustable I2S pin settings..........You must have a DAC which offers I2S pin setting adjustments in its menu in case box and DAC don't match up.

If you are using an external DAC why consider a new player?.......it would just be a transport and probably have MORE compatibility issues than your OPPO.

I highly recommend keeping OPPO and external DAC and just getting the DoP box for DSD (which also handles PCM anyway)

This is EXACT Ebay ad I bought my DoP box from........https://www.ebay.com/itm/124522696807?ViewItem=&item=124522696807
Just tell them you want DoP version and they will invoice you.
Another one that actually says "DoP' in its title from my Post #18 in this Thread............. https://www.ebay.com/itm/353354399159?

I bought my OPPO 205 brand new for AUD $1700 just before they announced the shutdown.

Looks like you still haven't read enough of the Thread link I posted earlier based on your questions.
At least read the Page 6 posts for all the info you should need and earlier posts in this Thread.

 

[L Plate]

X26Pro or X16 or D90 don't actually have DSD issue..........using this particular I2S converter box was issue.
Had to swap output channel cables on X16 as L/R DSD channels were reversed by boxes pin out settings with no option in X16 menu to correct (unlike D90)
ALL converter boxes are "slaves" with NON adjustable I2S pin settings..........You must have a DAC which offers I2S pin setting adjustments in its menu in case box and DAC don't match up.

If you are using an external DAC why consider a new player?.......it would just be a transport and probably have MORE compatibility issues than your OPPO.

I highly recommend keeping OPPO and external DAC and just getting the DoP box for DSD (which also handles PCM anyway)

This is EXACT Ebay ad I bought my DoP box from........https://www.ebay.com/itm/124522696807?ViewItem=&item=124522696807
Just tell them you want DoP version and they will invoice you.
Another one that actually says "DoP' in its title from my Post #18 in this Thread............. https://www.ebay.com/itm/353354399159?

I bought my OPPO 205 brand new for AUD $1700 just before they announced the shutdown.

Looks like you still haven't read enough of the Thread link I posted earlier based on your questions.
At least read the Page 6 posts for all the info you should need and earlier posts in this Thread.

Thanks mate. I will buy the box with DOP instead. BTW, I did read your posts and tried very hard to understand some of the things you mentioned. Much appreciated.

 

[Atanasi]

If a DAC has it's own clock, is the bit stream still clocked at the source? That is a real question because I have heard regardless of the DAC clock, CD (and SACD) are still clocked at the transport. I have not been able to find any technical papers stating this claim.

HDMI is clocked by the source. HDMI 1.3 specification is publicly available. Section 7.2 concerns Audio Sample Clock Capture and Regeneration. HDMI does not transmit the audio clock separately, only the video clock. Audio may be synchronized with video, and in this case the relationship between the audio and video clocks is a constant factor.

The Source shall determine the fractional relationship between the TMDS clock and an audio reference clock (128 · audio sample rate [fs]) and shall pass the numerator and denominator of that fraction to the Sink across the HDMI link. The Sink may then recreate the audio clock from the TMDS clock by using a clock divider and a clock multiplier.

If these clocks are not synchronized, the factor changes over time. The HDMI sink reconstructs the audio clock from the video clock and these factors.

 

[linger63]

Thanks mate. I will buy the box with DOP instead. BTW, I did read your posts and tried very hard to understand some of the things you mentioned. Much appreciated.

No worries.....
I didn't just mean my Posts as it was everyone else's Posts in that Thread that taught me!!!!!!!..........

 

[Reynaldo]

Had to swap output channel cables on X16 as L/R DSD channels were reversed by boxes pin out settings with no option in X16 menu to correct (unlike D90)

Yes on the X16 the DSD channels are inverted.
I bought their I2S cable to see if it would solve the problem, but it didn't.
The only solution is in the DAC to reverse the cables.
I don't know if it is possible to manufacture an I2S cable to solve this problem.

 

[linger63]

Yes on the X16 the DSD channels are inverted.
I bought their I2S cable to see if it would solve the problem, but it didn't.
The only solution is in the DAC to reverse the cables.
I don't know if it is possible to manufacture an I2S cable to solve this problem.

Maybe you could DIY re terminate a HDMI cable with your required pin assignments as mentioned in OP's 1st Post

 

[marcoF78]

Totally 1000% agree, talk is cheap, measurement is king.

BTW LKS got back to me and confirmed my pinout drawing I posted here and said exactly what you said, one ground connection is all that is needed. I replied back asking if the LKS does all the clocking on the DAC regardless of which digital input, waiting him to tell me. But I suspect (and happy to be stand corrected) that it does all the clocking, otherwise, why would it use this expensive clock.

Hi Gallantus,
I write here because I just got the "LKS MH-DA004" to play direct DSD files over the "i2s hdmi" interface. I am sending the stream into the DAC with a streamer box that supports DSD over "i2s hdmi" too. The reader picks the files on my NAS via DLNA/JRiver. Now you can guess what brought me here I have trouble streaming DSD straight JRiver -> Streamer -> LKS Audio via the HDMI / i2s. I get only one channel, and it's noisy ... I attach here the hdmi socket pinout of both sides, in case you get it ... because I don't ... Thanks !

 

[gallantus]

Hi Gallantus,
I write here because I just got the "LKS MH-DA004" to play direct DSD files over the "i2s hdmi" interface. I am sending the stream into the DAC with a streamer box that supports DSD over "i2s hdmi" too. The reader picks the files on my NAS via DLNA/JRiver. Now you can guess what brought me here I have trouble streaming DSD straight JRiver -> Streamer -> LKS Audio via the HDMI / i2s. I get only one channel, and it's noisy ... I attach here the hdmi socket pinout of both sides, in case you get it ... because I don't ... Thanks !

Let me make sure I understand the ask, you need help matching the pin out's?

 

[marcoF78]

Help woul be great, or hints or feedback regarding similar issues ... I have the solderless HDMI sockets cable built and need to do some trys ...

 

[gallantus]

Help woul be great, or hints or feedback regarding similar issues ... I have the solderless HDMI sockets cable built and need to do some trys ...

I don't know what Pin 18 is, it says "FLAG" Not sure what kind of flag.
Then for pin 13 and 14, not sure why they have a + and a -. Try swapping those. Then as far as noise, increase the DPLL see if that will eliminate the noise.

 

[gallantus]

Folks, not sure if I mentioned this. But with this HDMI audio de-embedder/extractor, when playing DSD via I2S HDMI, you will get what it appears to be clock related noises, if your DAC has the ability to adjust the DPLL, you need to adjust it to the highest. Depending on the DAC, at the highest DPLL setting, you may still get noise. If that is the case, you have no choice but to switch to DoP via coaxial or optical. I am not sure why DSD via I2S HDMI causes so much noise, if someone knows why, please feel free to share.

 

[marcoF78]

Folks, not sure if I mentioned this. But with this HDMI audio de-embedder/extractor, when playing DSD via I2S HDMI, you will get what it appears to be clock related noises, if your DAC has the ability to adjust the DPLL, you need to adjust it to the highest. Depending on the DAC, at the highest DPLL setting, you may still get noise. If that is the case, you have no choice but to switch to DoP via coaxial or optical. I am not sure why DSD via I2S HDMI causes so much noise, if someone knows why, please feel free to share.

Hi, thank you for the input.
To follow up with my pin out wiring question : I have done everything that could be done over the HDMI socket wiring.
- Swapping 13 & 14
- Removing all grounding lines but one
- Checking with both manufacturers that the DSD signal over i2S goes over pins DATA+/- (Channel R); LRCKO+/- (Channel L) and BCKO+/- (Clock)
- With this correctly setup over the HDMI cable, I have the following results :
+ The PCM is working over the interface (that includes DoP but limited to 64x) - It seems that LKS is limiting the DoP to 64x ? I have been told it is the case but it is not what written all over their documentation.
+ When streaming DSD direct, the DAC recognises the flow (so the screen displays the correct speed DSD 64x, 128x ..) but the sound is terrible : only one channel plays music (the Left ?), and there are lots of noises on both channels.

The Network Streamer manufacturer (3D Lab), says if the PCM is working, so should the DSD because they are using the same signal wire pairs. Unless there is a computing problem on the DAC i2s side ? For sure there is a problem and each manufacturer can blame the other one... My understanding is the interfaces somehow negociate the link and that they might be marginal one to the other ... Like even the DoP is not working all the time, I need to reboot the streamer from time to time to have it working ... Perhaps adding a ferrite core ?