Convert HDMI to USB or maybe coax

[rossco]

Hi guys I'm new here. My name rossco and I'm a studio engineer. I am seeking to connect my Oppo 105 HDMI output my Blu ray player into USB b (possibly over i2s) to my Denon PMA 110 110th anniversary amp (has high end dac built it)

I would go coaxial but I've noticed that coaxial has a warmer sound with better extreme high and extreme lows but the soundstage and detail over HDMI is amazing (I play a lot of Blu ray 24 96 music albums and cd's)

Anyone got any iny ideas or alternatives.

I would just use coaxial if there's some other device remedies to help as it doesn't deliver the goods as is over coaxial.

Thanks and really appreciated guys

 

[darth]

Wiim Ultra can do HDMI to USB/coax/optical for stereo and allows volume control too. Node Icon can also do it, but I found the implementation to be worse (could not volume control in my case).

If you want multi-channel (at which point you cant use your denon), then look at this thread and this forum, specifically the upcoming Nuprime-X H16-AES (HDMI to AES3) + Nuprime-X U16 (AES3 to USB).

There is also the OKTO Dac8 Pro that can convert AES to USB. But you will still need an HDMI device like the H16-AES or AudioPraise Vanity Pro for these.

 

[Chazz6]

Why not Toslink optical to Toslink optical, if you want to use the DAC in the Denon DAC? Or RCA to RCA if you want to use the DAC in the Oppo?

 

[voodooless]

I would go coaxial but I've noticed that coaxial has a warmer sound with better extreme high and extreme lows but the soundstage and detail over HDMI is amazing (I play a lot of Blu ray 24 96 music albums and cd's)

This is very unlikely. How did you come to this conclusion?

 

[DVDdoug]

The main problem is that most HDMI is encrypted, copy protected, and "encoded" as Dolby or some other format that most stand-alone DACs can't decode (or convert). And, S/PDIF doesn't support most of the Blu-Ray formats.

I would go coaxial but I've noticed that coaxial has a warmer sound with better extreme high and extreme lows but the soundstage and detail

I respect that you are are skilled audio engineer but it's impossible to digital to get "accidently" corrupted like that. Of course, if you down-sample to 8kHz you'll lose all the highs, but anything digital can go down to DC (zero Hz) although the DAC (or other analog electronics) will likely filter-out DC. Anything 44.1kHz or higher contains the full audible range. If you down-sample to 8-bits you'll hear quantization noise. (Most people don't realize what "low resolution" sounds like).

Proper-scientific, blind, blind ABX tests can be VERY humbling!

You MIGHT be surprised how carefully you have to listen to hear the difference between a high-resolution original and a high-bitrate MP3 copy, if you can reliably hear a difference at all. We've all heard poor quality MP3s and I used to be a "snob" about MP3. But sometime after I got my 1st DVD player I found out that Dolby Digital is also lossy compression... Some of the best sounding and most enjoyable music I own is on concert DVDs with surround sound.

"Warmth" and "detail" aren't well defined. I used to think warmth was a mid-bass boost, but to some people it means slight "pleasing" distortion. I usually associate "detail" with high frequencies but Dan Clark (headphone manufacturer) says that headphones with more distortion are often described as having "more detail". So I now try not to use those words, or I'll describe what I mean. Sometimes I'll say "bright" or "dull" in regard to high frequencies, but I try to remember to say specifically what I'm trying to describe.

Of course "soundstage" is an illusion (with the sound really coming from a pair of speakers or headphones) so your brain is involved and can't be measured or quantified. It's mostly in the mix/production, but the speakers and the room also have an influence. Although I enjoy the stereo (or surround sound) I don't pay much attention to the soundstage... Like everybody else, I'm almost always listening to studio recordings where the soundstage is artificially created anyway.

With headphones, very few people get a realistic soundstage illusion. The most common perception is that the sound is coming from inside the listener's head. I usually perceive it coming from somewhere around my forehead except for hard-panned sounds which perceive as coming directly from the headphone and "injected" into my ears.

 

[Gary_G]

Take a look at this maybe.

GeerFab Audio - GeerFab

TELL YOUR SACDs THAT THE WAIT IS OVER EXTRACT DSD and Hi-Res PCM from discs to an external DAC for the first time ever…legally Discover the Unheard Dimensions of SACD & Full Potential of DSD Rediscover your SACDs and hear what you’ve been missing…staggering clarity and presence, dramatically...

geerfab.com

 

[rossco]

Why not Toslink optical to Toslink optical, if you want to use the DAC in the Denon DAC? Or RCA to RCA if you want to use the DAC in the Oppo?

I remember from university the frequency bandwidth is less than that of coaxial and definitely HDMI.

 

[rossco]

Wiim Ultra can do HDMI to USB/coax/optical for stereo and allows volume control too. Node Icon can also do it, but I found the implementation to be worse (could not volume control in my case).

If you want multi-channel (at which point you cant use your denon), then look at this thread and this forum, specifically the upcoming Nuprime-X H16-AES (HDMI to AES3) + Nuprime-X U16 (AES3 to USB).

There is also the OKTO Dac8 Pro that can convert AES to USB. But you will still need an HDMI device like the H16-AES or AudioPraise Vanity Pro for these.

Just 2 channel, thanks for your info

The main problem is that most HDMI is encrypted, copy protected, and "encoded" as Dolby or some other format that most stand-alone DACs can't decode (or convert). And, S/PDIF doesn't support most of the Blu-Ray formats.


I respect that you are are skilled audio engineer but it's impossible to digital to get "accidently" corrupted like that. Of course, if you down-sample to 8kHz you'll lose all the highs, but anything digital can go down to DC (zero Hz) although the DAC (or other analog electronics) will likely filter-out DC. Anything 44.1kHz or higher contains the full audible range. If you down-sample to 8-bits you'll hear quantization noise. (Most people don't realize what "low resolution" sounds like).

Proper-scientific, blind, blind ABX tests can be VERY humbling!

You MIGHT be surprised how carefully you have to listen to hear the difference between a high-resolution original and a high-bitrate MP3 copy, if you can reliably hear a difference at all. We've all heard poor quality MP3s and I used to be a "snob" about MP3. But sometime after I got my 1st DVD player I found out that Dolby Digital is also lossy compression... Some of the best sounding and most enjoyable music I own is on concert DVDs with surround sound.

"Warmth" and "detail" aren't well defined. I used to think warmth was a mid-bass boost, but to some people it means slight "pleasing" distortion. I usually associate "detail" with high frequencies but Dan Clark (headphone manufacturer) says that headphones with more distortion are often described as having "more detail". So I now try not to use those words, or I'll describe what I mean. Sometimes I'll say "bright" or "dull" in regard to high frequencies, but I try to remember to say specifically what I'm trying to describe.

Of course "soundstage" is an illusion (with the sound really coming from a pair of speakers or headphones) so your brain is involved and can't be measured or quantified. It's mostly in the mix/production, but the speakers and the room also have an influence. Although I enjoy the stereo (or surround sound) I don't pay much attention to the soundstage... Like everybody else, I'm almost always listening to studio recordings where the soundstage is artificially created anyway.

With headphones, very few people get a realistic soundstage illusion. The most common perception is that the sound is coming from inside the listener's head. I usually perceive it coming from somewhere around my forehead except for hard-panned sounds which perceive as coming directly from the headphone and "injected" into my ears.

I just done a detailed post in the DAC section on here regarding listening of coax and hdmi. 3 of us all noticed a pretty decent different but your right in one way. I now don't think it's warmer etc sorry I think emphasis bandwidth differently and factually that's definitely happening at the extreme lows and highs because they have different specifications regarding frequency bandwidth.

HDMI is the winner for me, seems to have better detail and soundstage put simply.

 

[somebodyelse]

If you mean https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...hdmi-and-coaxial-soundtage.63879/post-2341865 it's anything but detailed - there is zero description of test method, controls used, or detailed results to demonstrate statistical significance. Without these there is nothing to discuss, beyond the probability that it's all in your mind due to well known confounding factors.

 

[audio_tony]

I remember from university the frequency bandwidth is less than that of coaxial and definitely HDMI.

Toslink is typically limited to 96kHz sample rate, meaning the highest frequency that can be reproduced is 48kHz.

Is this what you mean by "frequency bandwidth"?

I'd be very surprised if you could hear any difference between material played back at 96kHz or material played back at 192kHz in a double blind test.

 

[voodooless]

I just done a detailed post in the DAC section on here regarding listening of coax and hdm

No, you detailed absolutely nothing…

 

[TimW]

HDMI is the winner for me, seems to have better detail and soundstage put simply.

How are you comparing the HDMI and Coaxial outputs directly if you can't connect the HDMI output to your amplifier?

 

[rossco]

No, you detailed absolutely nothing…

Hey guys I just realised lol I wasn't processing the audio in pure direct mode through my receiver so there was a bit of background processing going on.

When I tested it in pure direct mode between coaxial and HDMI they were very similar actually.

So I recorrect myself.

But as I said on my other post the HDMI proceeding on a really good av receiver sound very good.

Most the time I was a Denon PMA a110 which is dual mono balanced differential amp. I think the receiver adds some great processing, it supervised me how good. The PMA doesn't even get used now.