I2S via HDMI pinout wiring.

[gallantus]

While it is true that ESS DACs that are in the LKS can and usually operate asynchronously on its own clock I don't know if the DAC chip in LKS runs asynchronously or synchronously over I2S. Even if it does run asynchronously from the source there are limits of what ASRC can do and bad incoming clock can still affect D/A conversion. For DSD however, the stability of the clock can be of lesser importance, not sure. It's all speculation and hand waving anyway, someone needs to take this HDMI extractor and feed it some test signals and analyze the analog output of a particular DAC to get an idea how well this solution performs as there can be other issues apart from the clock.

Totally 1000% agree, talk is cheap, measurement is king.

BTW LKS got back to me and confirmed my pinout drawing I posted here and said exactly what you said, one ground connection is all that is needed. I replied back asking if the LKS does all the clocking on the DAC regardless of which digital input, waiting him to tell me. But I suspect (and happy to be stand corrected) that it does all the clocking, otherwise, why would it use this expensive clock.

 

[gallantus]

Been there and done that.
I ended up with a DoP capable De embedder which works perfectly.

Check it out.......... https://www.ebay.com/itm/353354399159?

That is the same exact one that I am getting (except price difference), I have linked that in my original post. Are you sure that this is DoP and not raw DSD? But regardless, you still need to make sure that you have the correct pinout assignment.

 

[gvl]

That is the same exact one that I am getting (except price difference), I have linked that in my original post. Are you sure that this is DoP and not raw DSD? But regardless, you still need to make sure that you have the correct pinout assignment.

You just use coax or Toslink for DoP, no need to mess with HDMI. Much cleaner.

 

[gallantus]

I bought one of those black boxes from China and didn't have any luck with it using my Oppo BDP-83 and Topping D90. YMMV
Now it collects dust.

Did you double check on the pinout is configured correctly?

 

[gallantus]

You just use coax or Toslink for DoP, no need to mess with HDMI. Much cleaner.

According to this, coaxial only supports up to DoP64. I have some DSD128. And also, there are multiple versions of this board, not all versions support DoP; maybe I ask which version of the board I will be getting

Version Introduction:
Support coaxial DOP board. When DSD input, I2S port outputs DSD, coaxial output DOP64, it is used with a decoder supporting DOP.

 

[gvl]

Aren't all SACDs DSD64 by definition?

 

[gallantus]

Aren't all SACDs DSD64 by definition?

You might be right, there is no way I can double check because everything is outputted as PCM at the moment. But the SACD specs I looked at does not state anything other than 2.8Mhz sampling rate, which is 64x44.1. maybe I was confused with the DSD128 files I have. But still not sure if the board I ordered is the version that is capable of DoP over coaxial. And even if the version of the board I order does DoP, I have to double check to make sure my DAC supports DoP.

All of these hoops and if's, why bother? Too much headache just wire the damn HDMI cable and be done. I am sure there are others there who won't pass all of this if's.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Aren't all SACDs DSD64 by definition?

Yes but there are DSD/DFF files with higher sampling rates.

 

[gvl]

Yes but there are DSD/DFF files with higher sampling rates.

Sure, but the goal was to hook up a SACD player to an external DAC for which the DoP embedder box appears to be a better solution than I2S with its cabling mess and other potential issues. Wasn't sure why DSD128 was mentioned in this context, I thought maybe there were double rate SACDs but couldn't find anything.

 

[gvl]

I have to double check to make sure my DAC supports DoP.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Sure, but the goal was to hook up a SACD player to an external DAC for which the DoP embedder box appears to be a better solution than I2S with its cabling mess and other potential issues.

Agreed.

Wasn't sure why DSD128 was mentioned in this context, I thought maybe there were double rate SACDs but couldn't find anything.

None that I know of but I figured it was worth being explicit.

 

[gallantus]

View attachment 149983

First, damn, just I noticed this thing support up to DSD1024? I'm curious to know who has DSD1024 files out there.

Anyways, side tracked, I still got to see if the version of the board I ordered is the version that supports DoP. But you know what, since I already got confirmation that my wiring scheme works and is safe, I will just wire away; I mean, why not, it would only take 15-20 mins.

But for all others who is having the issue with I2S HDMI pinout standards and configuration, here is your answer:
1) Find out the pinout configuration on the source and on your DAC
2) Get this bad boy: AmazonSmile: SinLoon 2 Pack HDMI Solderless Adapter Gold Plated HDMI Extension Cable Connector Signals Terminal Breakout Board Free Welding Connector with Plastic Cover Screwdriver : Electronics
3) Know that only one ground is actually needed to be connected. All other grounds does not need to be connected. But if you choose to, you SHOULD be able to wire grounds to the no connection pins of your DAC or multiple grounds from the source to one ground on the DAC, so long you have at least one ground from source to one ground to DAC, however my warning to you is that, I can't confirm 100% at this point.
4) If your DAC does not need the 5v and the master clock, it is not necessary to wire those. But if you choose to, you can wire it to the no connection pins of your DAC.

 

[gvl]

DSD1024 is mainly to please the crowd that likes to waste electric energy by real time uprating using HQ Player and such.

 

[UCrazyKid]

Did you double check on the pinout is configured correctly?

I worked on this for weeks trying all different kinds of configurations and modifying cables. I think the box I got must have been bad. I wasn’t going to order another and wait a month for it to show up.

 

[gallantus]

I worked on this for weeks trying all different kinds of configurations and modifying cables. I think the box I got must have been bad. I wasn’t going to order another and wait a month for it to show up.

Did you used the 5v external power?

 

[UCrazyKid]

Did you used the 5v external power?

Yes. I tried with and without.

 

[MTZ]

Hi,

I have a link to an exel spreadsheet with the I2S pin connections for several manufacturers.
I hope it works.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1h5PMUBkldkpt1rCnAR4ZHYGZNeCe-vwIFyKWYMZWsX0/htmlview#

Regards,

Mark

 

[gallantus]

While it is true that ESS DACs that are in the LKS can and usually operate asynchronously on its own clock I don't know if the DAC chip in LKS runs asynchronously or synchronously over I2S. Even if it does run asynchronously from the source there are limits of what ASRC can do and bad incoming clock can still affect D/A conversion. For DSD however, the stability of the clock can be of lesser importance, not sure. It's all speculation and hand waving anyway, someone needs to take this HDMI extractor and feed it some test signals and analyze the analog output of a particular DAC to get an idea how well this solution performs as there can be other issues apart from the clock.

LKS replied back and my DAC is asynchronous, it reclocks every single input, regardless of the type of input connection.

That's what I long suspected and assumed because with the MH-DA004, you can adjust the DPLL.

Can't wait till I get it and used my modified HDMI cable and listen to native DSD signals from my SACDs.

 

[gvl]

I don’t quite see how adjustability of PLL has anything to do with the DAC operating mode, but as long as you’re happy it’s all good

 

[gallantus]

I don’t quite see how adjustability of PLL has anything to do with the DAC operating mode, but as long as you’re happy it’s all good

Then perhaps either my understanding of the DPLL is incorrect or I am making too much assumptions (and made a big ASS out of U and ME ) or both.

My understanding of DPLL is the ability of the DAC to adjust the clock to tune the phase of the signal. And my assumption is that in order to adjust the clock it has to be the one generating the clock.

If I am wrong, then I learn something new everyday.