Hypex NC1200: Quality of the implementations

[March Audio]

https://www.miveraaudio.com/forum/main/comment/5d152b0f9057de00ec85bcc3

[ Just found this thread. Nord, Apollon, and ATM is using one of the variant's of my outdated buffer designs. Rouge, March Audio, and Mola Mola are using different ones.

March just uses the bone stock built in LM4562 IC op-amp based buffer which is mediocre at best.

[. ]

That is simply not true. I suggest you take a look at the data sheet.

http://www.ti.com/product/LM4562

http://www.ti.com/lit/gpn/lm4562

Also it should be noted that Mike at Mivera audio (competitor) was banned from here for trolling me under a pseudonym.

 

[Thomas savage]

That is simply not true. I suggest you take a look at the data sheet.

http://www.ti.com/product/LM4562

http://www.ti.com/lit/gpn/lm4562

Also it should be noted that Mike at Mivera audio (competitor) was banned from here for trolling me under a pseudonym.

Mike was just too sexy and amir became jealous..

This threads a great idea , the fact it's so backward and in open neglect for everything we've worked hard for is beyond disappointing.

Yea let's look at some pics and pass ignorant judgment based on absolutely nothing.

Honestly let's just not bother , if there's a good discussion to be had wrt hypex implementations ( and there is ) let's have it but not in this thread.

 

[March Audio]

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ng-on-an-eigentakt-amplifier.7671/post-191851

[ https://www.miveraaudio.com/forum/main/comment/5d09e8d47668730061a7b5b2

The Purifi input board buffer uses TI OPA1612 opamps. If you have a look at the datasheet, based on the information they provide, the objective performance is outstanding:

http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/opa1612.pdf

TI made a newer version of this opamp, with higher current output called the OPA1622:

https://www.audioxpress.com/news/Te...eneration-OPA1612-Audio-Operational-Amplifier

And after that they released an enhanced version with built in thin film resistors, and EMI suppression provisions, that is actually capable of delivering better real world performance in a final implementation. The data sheet specs are not as good, but due to the internal laser trimmed resistors, and EMI provisions, real world performance should be better:

http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/ina1620.pdf ]

So opa1612

Features

• High-Fidelity Sound Quality
• Ultralow Noise: 2.8 nV/√Hz at 1 kHz
• Ultralow Total Harmonic Distortion + Noise:
  –119 dB THD+N (142 mW/Ch into 32 Ω/Ch)
• Wide Gain Bandwidth Product:
  32 MHz (G = +1000)
• High Slew Rate: 10 V/µs
• High Capacitive-Load Drive Capability: > 600 pF
• High Open-Loop Gain: 136 dB (600-Ω Load)

Lm4562

KEY SPECIFICATIONS
• Power Supply Voltage Range: ±2.5V to ± 17V
• THD+N(AV=1, VOUT = 3VRMS, fIN = 1kHz)–RL=2kΩ:0.00003% (typ)–RL=600Ω: 0.00003% (typ) - 130dB
• Input Noise Density: 2.7nV/√Hz (typ)
• SlewRate: ±20V/μs (typ) DESCRIPTION p) • Input Offset Voltage: 0.1mV (typ) • DCGainLinearity Error: 0.000009%

However what you have to understand is that the OP amp isn't the only factor. Board design and layout can make a significant difference.

Looking at these buffers op amp specs in isolation is all well and good but you need to see measurements of final Implementations, preferably not just the buffer board but the entire finished amp output.

Otherwise it's just all marketing guff and subjective (usually uncontrolled and faulty) opinion.

This is precisely the trap that the "op amp rollers" fall into. They look at specs, replace their ne5532 with a wizz bang op amp and expect overall circuit performance to improve and therefore sound quality. They then use uncontrolled methods to assess sound quality and will incorrectly conclude their new op amp is smoother, has lifted veils and made blacks blacker. Amir's measurements of doing this demonstrate nothing useful changing.

It is quite possible that different buffers can sound different, that's not the argument I am making, which I think some have misinterpreted. However you have to ask yourself if they do sound significantly different under controlled conditions, then why? If it is the case then differences will be measurable.

Ask yourself which one is transparent? It's actually OK to colour the sound if that's what you want, but if you want tone controls, why not use tone controls?

 

[Thomas savage]

Definitely can't tests bits in isolation and claim performance. The things got to be tested inputs to output.

But we know this so why are we going down this road.

 

[KLH007]

So the thousands of Nord owners are wrong and prefer one discrete Op Amp over another because of peer pressure? The rolling of OpAmps gives owners a way to tune the amp to their likes, I think we'll see more of this practice. The real world success of Colin's Nord and a few others offering socketed OpAmps proves their viability.

 

[Xulonn]

Definitely can't tests bits in isolation and claim performance. The things got to be tested inputs to output.
But we know this so why are we going down this road.

As this forum grows, we will see more and more displays of the effects of Duning-Kruger syndrome...

 

[amirm]

So the thousands of Nord owners are wrong and prefer one discrete Op Amp over another because of peer pressure? The rolling of OpAmps gives owners a way to tune the amp to their likes, I think we'll see more of this practice. The real world success of Colin's Nord and a few others offering socketed OpAmps proves their viability.

People are successful selling really awful stuff. That doesn't validate what they do. I have tested high-end discrete op-amps in DACs and they don't do a thing other than empty your pocket faster. See: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ng-replacing-op-amps-in-topping-d10-dac.4576/

Let's stay with what we can prove, rather than what we speculate.

 

[Xulonn]

So the thousands of Nord owners are wrong and prefer one discrete Op Amp over another because of peer pressure? The rolling of OpAmps gives owners a way to tune the amp to their likes, I think we'll see more of this practice. The real world success of Colin's Nord and a few others offering socketed OpAmps proves their viability.

Quite the contrary - rather than "viability" it proves the seductive power of subjective sighted listening bias and marketing.

More power to Nord if offering different op-amps helps sales - either way, Nord Hypex and ICEpower amplifiers are apparently excellent, and compared to many other compulsive pathologies caused by acute audiophilia, at least op-amp rolling doesn't cost a lot.

Let's stay with what we can prove, rather than what we speculate.

LOL - you're fast, Amir. I was looking for that graphic to post it

 

[March Audio]

So the thousands of Nord owners are wrong and prefer one discrete Op Amp over another because of peer pressure? The rolling of OpAmps gives owners a way to tune the amp to their likes, I think we'll see more of this practice. The real world success of Colin's Nord and a few others offering socketed OpAmps proves their viability.

But as Amir shows above when you test op amp rolling there can often be no performance change or advantage.

Yes, when people subjectively test sighted and without controls they absolutely do get it wrong. They hear things that aren't there. This is proven.

Also, one word. MARKETING.

You need to read my post again and understand that I have said buffers can sound different. However this is not the same as being transparent or highest performing. Overtly Fixing the sound of an amp in a certain way with a coloured buffer is not the way to go IMO. Simply due to the fact that all recordings sound different. An amp should be transparent. If you want to adjust sound use variable tone controls.

 

[FrantzM]

so what is the purpose of this thread? .. Hypex-porn? My ears are better than yours? I have great recordings and you don't >

 

[Matias]

I find it very interesting. Like a reboot of that "attack of the clones" article from 10 years ago.

https://www.audioholics.com/audio-amplifier/clone-amplifiers

 

[maty]

Also it should be noted that Mike at Mivera audio (competitor) was banned from here for trolling me under a pseudonym.

He is an intelligent but somewhat obsessed person who sees conspiracies everywhere and resorts to personal disqualification which harms his and subtracts credibility.

Readers are smart enough to discern between the information / data offered and their opinions. Like many journalists today, they mix info with opinion, which is very difficult to extract.

 

[g29]

And another NC1200.

Theta Prometheus

 

[Wombat]

so what is the purpose of this thread? .. Hypex-porn? My ears are better than yours? I have great recordings and you don't >

The last two points are commonplace across this forum, so why not here?

 

[Wombat]

He is an intelligent but somewhat obsessed person who sees conspiracies everywhere and resorts to personal disqualification which harms his and subtracts credibility.

Readers are smart enough to discern between the information / data offered and their opinions. Like many journalists today, they mix info with opinion, which is very difficult to extract.

I wouldn't include intelligence if it accompanies the other attributes you see.

Your second sentence applies to yourself, of course.

Mind reading territory, it seems.

 

[VintageFlanker]

The real world success of Colin's Nord and a few others offering socketed OpAmps proves their viability.

I don't know what such claims proves. Does the real world succes of Audioquest, Cardas or Nordost proves something?

 

[maty]

BTW I posted a similar NC1200 comparison in AS a few days before. Coincidence.

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/38915-good-class-d-amps/?do=findComment&comment=966862

Maybe we are twin brothers who separated us at birth. Some government agency, maybe supervised by Amirm (I have always thought it was suspicious since I know he worked for M$), is experimenting with us, in some kind of mind control. Oh wait, I start to see conspiracies everywhere.

 

[maty]

And another NC1200.

Theta Prometheus

https://www.stereophile.com/content/theta-digital-prometheus-monoblock-power-amplifier-measurements

 

[Biblob]

@maty What is there to learn from looking at some pictures? You can't read a SINAD from looking at those. Etc.

 

[maty]

@maty What is there to learn from looking at some pictures? You can't read a SINAD from looking at those. Etc.

Now that nobody reads us, I will tell you that I do not follow the SINAD. I prefer to look at other values that I have been referring to for many years.

Taking a look inside you can know a few things, mistakes made and possible improvements. And, above all, very important for me, the love for a job well done or just the desire to earn money.

An example: hardware devices that work with small signal (phono, preamp, DAC/ADC...) or are very sensitive with the EMI (class D technology) must use aluminum boxes of 4 mm thickness or more or the cheapest one, 1 mm galvanized steel sheet (with the precaution of separating almost 10 mm -at least 6 mm- the circuitry from the steel walls).