How to improve a harsh and artificial sound?

[Marcos Mazur]

"...that tweeter is spitting hot fire above 12k."

I don't know about the Wharfedale 9.0, but from what I've seen the Pioneer SB22-LR has serious resonances in the highs and this can really hurt the ear for long periods of time, using EQ made it slightly more musical but only in a ''remedied'' way ', it still doesn't sound good, but each case is different, there are those who use them and like them and those people don't use them near-field and aren't as demanding in terms of refinement and naturalness of the sound, since it's a box cheap, with ''audiophile'' qualities but at the same time with characteristics that make it sound unhealthy for the most discerning and sensitive in fact, adding that to the fact that class d amps in general are dry and a little edgy, it's really bad .

Are we being too cheap?

I think that's about it too, but I see there's more at stake.
I'm passionate about music and for months I've been away from the hobby and I've thought about giving up, my passion is sound but at the same time my ear begs me to stop, in an attempt to obtain a more refined sound I got to this situation that I hadn't foreseen for years ago, because even external sounds from neighbors and urban noises have caused pain in the ear, this has a lot to do with my ears that maybe need treatment too, of course, but I can't reduce everything to that, I believe there are components that sound musical , the question is whether it is worth the savings and spending on more expensive things, because something more expensive sometimes comes down to taste and more expensive does not always mean more refined for those with sensitive ears, for example.

 

[Marcos Mazur]

Just to add, I've used the Pioneer SB22-LR with different sources and the characteristic felt by me is practically the same.
I put mine up for sale, I would not recommend anyone to buy them today even as an entry level speaker, so I researched several others in the same price range they have similar problems and some active models with internal class d amp sound similar to what I have tested, anyway, they are not ear friendly, but for those who want to use them very sporadically or as multimedia speakers, in this case yes.

 

[Mal]

The Pioneer SB22-LR had a good review from amir.

Pioneer SP-BS22-LR Bookshelf Speaker Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Pioneer SP-BS22-LR desktop/bookshelf budget speakers. I purchased them recently from Amazon for US $118 including Prime shipping. But I hear they go on sale for much less money. The build quality is incredible given the very low price: The...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Some faults seem fairly minor:

"I found the speaker bright a bit due to lack of deep bass. I toed the speaker away from my ears and that made a drastic difference, balancing the tonality considerably."

"Compared to my JBL LSR305P Mark II, the JBL had much better bass but otherwise had similar tonality which is to say the Pioneer was doing well. Let me backtrack that a bit: there is a bit too much mid-range in the pioneer."

I have tamed my Wharfedale Diamon 9.0s somewhat using a Schiit Loki, maybe it would help with the Pioneer, especially as the problems see to be "broad" and therefore amenable to broad-stroke tuning with the: "lack of deep base", "too much mid-range", "bright"...

Why sell them?

You might buy a Loki/amp/dac/miniDSP/whatever and be wondering if the Pioneers might have been fixed with the new item(s)... also doing quick swaps with a speaker upgrade might highlight improvements (or disimprovements!)

 

[Marcos Mazur]

The Pioneer SB22-LR had a good review from amir.

Pioneer SP-BS22-LR Bookshelf Speaker Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Pioneer SP-BS22-LR desktop/bookshelf budget speakers. I purchased them recently from Amazon for US $118 including Prime shipping. But I hear they go on sale for much less money. The build quality is incredible given the very low price: The...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Some faults seem fairly minor:

"I found the speaker bright a bit due to lack of deep bass. I toed the speaker away from my ears and that made a drastic difference, balancing the tonality considerably."

"Compared to my JBL LSR305P Mark II, the JBL had much better bass but otherwise had similar tonality which is to say the Pioneer was doing well. Let me backtrack that a bit: there is a bit too much mid-range in the pioneer."

I have tamed my Wharfedale Diamon 9.0s somewhat using a Schiit Loki, maybe it would help with the Pioneer, especially as the problems see to be "broad" and therefore amenable to broad-stroke tuning with the: "lack of deep base", "too much mid-range", "bright"...

Why sell them?

You might buy a Loki/amp/dac/miniDSP/whatever and be wondering if the Pioneers might have been fixed with the new item(s)... also doing quick swaps with a speaker upgrade might highlight improvements (or disimprovements!)

I thought the idea was cool, man, I researched Schitt Loki, they say it's very transparent and clean, but I was in doubt if this analog equalizer reaches even the highest frequencies, is the maximum 8000hz? I've been using the APO EQ on windows 10, it's effective, but some piercing is still noticeable eventually or is it my ears, even with all the recommended Pioneer fixes, maybe the EQ for windows isn't fully transparent? I have the slight impression that the APO compresses the sound, I've never seen measurements about that either, or it could be small natural distortions of the speaker itself that I barely notice due to the sensitivity (I'm really a bit of a troubled listener ). From Amir's review I saw that the worst are the resonances + the highs that are not the most refined, since the Pioneer's strong point is the mids. I would live with Pioneer perfectly accepting its limitations IF it weren't for that peaky high frequencies issue, maybe this is an adjustment to better suit the rest of the set that these bookshelf are part of (amp+tower+sub...), for a while I thought it could be some kind of mysterious unnoticeable noise on the USB contaminating the DAC, or that the Allo Volt+D amplifier was really overdone (it really isn't), or that the cables were bad, some myths, but doing several tests just realized that this review says a lot.

 

[Mal]

... I researched Schitt Loki, ... but I was in doubt if this analog equalizer reaches even the highest frequencies, is the maximum 8000hz?

The Schiit Loki Mini+ highest knob is *centred* on 8K, but still has a strong effect at 20K+

Schiit Loki Equalizer released

How would the Loki compare sound wise to a decent, say $400 graphic eq?

forums.stevehoffman.tv

I've been using the APO EQ on windows 10, it's effective, but some piercing is still noticeable eventually...

I don't have Windows 10, I have a Chromebox, so can't compare Loki to APO EQ.

Have you tried any of the free EQ apps that work in Chrome browser? I found some of them quite effective - didn't have the piercing effect on me. They had other problems though - only working in one tab, stopping working for no obvious reason,... Do you listen to Spotify Premium? It has quite a nice equaliser - although (obviously) its problem is it only works with Spotify.

I'm a "troubled listener" as well, with a tendency to Tinnitus, especially with headphones (and that's mainly using Senn HD 650!) I find speakers less troubling... but not so musical as those wonderful Senns (!)

If it's piercing who cares if it's the headphones or your ears? Just get rid of the piercing...

 

[Marcos Mazur]

The Schiit Loki Mini+ highest knob is *centred* on 8K, but still has a strong effect at 20K+

Schiit Loki Equalizer released

How would the Loki compare sound wise to a decent, say $400 graphic eq?

forums.stevehoffman.tv

I don't have Windows 10, I have a Chromebox, so can't compare Loki to APO EQ.

Have you tried any of the free EQ apps that work in Chrome browser? I found some of them quite effective - didn't have the piercing effect on me. They had other problems though - only working in one tab, stopping working for no obvious reason,... Do you listen to Spotify Premium? It has quite a nice equaliser - although (obviously) its problem is it only works with Spotify.

I'm a "troubled listener" as well, with a tendency to Tinnitus, especially with headphones (and that's mainly using Senn HD 650!) I find speakers less troubling... but not so musical as those wonderful Senns (!)

If it's piercing who cares if it's the headphones or your ears? Just get rid of the piercing...

I've tried others but APO is currently the best.
Pretty interesting as it covers all frequencies, centered on 8hz, ok, but looking at these graphs, by lowering the 8hz knob am I also reducing the mids a lot? I don't know I understand very well.
I also have tinnitus with some frequency, as well as other people in the family too, with a piercing I don't know if I expressed myself well in English, I mean a ''needle'' felt in the ear when listening to high frequencies, maybe this is frequent for those who always hear more ''old-school'' sound with poor resolution, kind of muffled and suddenly start using this amp or digital dac with a lot of detail and rich treble, the ear and brain react in a certain way.

 

[Mal]

Pretty interesting as it covers all frequencies, centered on 8hz, ok, but looking at these graphs, by lowering the 8hz knob am I also reducing the mids a lot? , I mean a ''needle'' felt in the ear when listening to high frequencies, maybe this is frequent for those who always hear more ''old-school'' sound with poor resolution, kind of muffled and suddenly start using this amp or digital dac with a lot of detail and rich treble, the ear and brain react in a certain way.

Yes, you may reduce the mids a bit, but you can raise them with the 2K knob! I do, in fact, do this. I do end up *fairly* happy with the sound. Would need to spend a lot more time listening & tweaking to see if I can get to like the system as much as my KEF LSX speakers (which are quite warm and kind to my ears! Have you considered these? They are as far from "harsh and artifical" as I've ever heard...)

 

[Marcos Mazur]

Yes, you may reduce the mids a bit, but you can raise them with the 2K knob! I do, in fact, do this. I do end up *fairly* happy with the sound. Would need to spend a lot more time listening & tweaking to see if I can get to like the system as much as my KEF LSX speakers (which are quite warm and kind to my ears! Have you considered these? They are as far from "harsh and artifical" as I've ever heard...)

I did some research on the Schitt Loki and it's just a matter of budget until I can buy one, the reviews are all positive as you describe, I did tests last week to confirm and I really think the digital EQ doesn't sound good in my setup, I tried different software and APO is still the best, I manage to lower the high frequencies with it, the sound is more comfortable and friendlier for me, I keep listening for half an hour and I start to feel a painful discomfort in my ears, or am I doing something wrong or is this really it happens due to the simple fact of being one more DSP in the setup, ''something else in the way changing the sound'' so to speak, when we talk about distortion or ''noise'' it is usually understood by something very easily perceptible by ear, but not even it's always the case, sometimes it's a little below noticeable, but it's still there bothering you in the long run.

 

[Marcos Mazur]

Yes, you may reduce the mids a bit, but you can raise them with the 2K knob! I do, in fact, do this. I do end up *fairly* happy with the sound. Would need to spend a lot more time listening & tweaking to see if I can get to like the system as much as my KEF LSX speakers (which are quite warm and kind to my ears! Have you considered these? They are as far from "harsh and artifical" as I've ever heard...)

How ''low-noise'' is Schit Loki? did you notice anything slightly negative or is it really transparent and ''invisible'' in the setup? I intend to connect this EQ between my DAC and integrated amp.

 

[Marcos Mazur]

Yes, you may reduce the mids a bit, but you can raise them with the 2K knob! I do, in fact, do this. I do end up *fairly* happy with the sound. Would need to spend a lot more time listening & tweaking to see if I can get to like the system as much as my KEF LSX speakers (which are quite warm and kind to my ears! Have you considered these? They are as far from "harsh and artifical" as I've ever heard...)

Assuming that I wanted to lower the frequencies almost to the maximum from 11khz until 20khz, and so on, if I raise the 2khz knob, will I be compensating for the decrease from 6khz, down to 10khz? My very digital head still didn't quite understand the possibilities.

 

[Mal]

Assuming that I wanted to lower the frequencies almost to the maximum from 11khz until 20khz, and so on, if I raise the 2khz knob, will I be compensating for the decrease from 6khz, down to 10khz? My very digital head still didn't quite understand the possibilities.

To do what you want (cut off everything above a certain frequency) I think you might have to stay in the digital domain - the Loki is all about wide band alterations, not about cutting off any frequencies completely. I'm not an expert - but, at a guess, it might be worth looking at filtering: