How to improve a harsh and artificial sound?

[Razorhelm]

I would highly recommend getting a mic with calibration, doing some measurements with REW and then use its eq wizard to create some filters to apply in something like equaliserAPO. I spent years trying to get my system right and in the end measurements were the key!

this video got me started, someone on here posted it and it was a game changer for me.

 

[dasdoing]

What may be causing harshness and annoying sound in my setup? it happens in any music I listen to on my pc, any format and any player I try.
I make it clear that I don't talk about noticeable noises or sound distortions (ground loop and stuff like that, I think), I'm also not listening at high volume or having any ear problems, THE FACT is that despite my desktop sound configuration sounds clean, detailed and balanced, I still realize that the sound doesn’t sound natural and pleasant, getting tired quickly, sometimes I even feel mild "needles" in my ears, hurting a little.

Something’s wrong, what would be the problem? It's frustrating because I spent a reasonable amount of money here in Brazil trying to improve the quality of my desktop sound.

I'm currently using:
Bookshelf Pioneer SP BS22-LR + Amplifier SMSL SA100 + DAC Tempotec Sonata HD Pro + Robust audio cables / RCA and Foobar 2000 Player.

seja bem vindo.


first thing to do would be to take meassurements.
are the speakers on a table or something like that?

 

[Erispedia]

You can try listening to sinewave sweep, on Youtube videos or using some apps. And try to find some excessive peaks and tame it with parametric EQ or room acoustic treatment. For more accurate result, use measurement mic and software. But if you don't want to spend on the tools, you can use your own ears, with more difficulty and maybe the time needed to get decent result.

 

[Taddpole]

What may be causing harshness and annoying sound in my setup? it happens in any music I listen to on my pc, any format and any player I try.
I make it clear that I don't talk about noticeable noises or sound distortions (ground loop and stuff like that, I think), I'm also not listening at high volume or having any ear problems, THE FACT is that despite my desktop sound configuration sounds clean, detailed and balanced, I still realize that the sound doesn’t sound natural and pleasant, getting tired quickly, sometimes I even feel mild "needles" in my ears, hurting a little.

Something’s wrong, what would be the problem? It's frustrating because I spent a reasonable amount of money here in Brazil trying to improve the quality of my desktop sound.

I'm currently using:
Bookshelf Pioneer SP BS22-LR + Amplifier SMSL SA100 + DAC Tempotec Sonata HD Pro + Robust audio cables / RCA and Foobar 2000 Player.

Can you use a different source rather than the pc to see it's deriving from there or subsequent stages?

 

[Asylum Seeker]

Easy - Buy an audiophile cable!

 

[Marcos Mazur]

I am grateful for the answers, this thread is being very important to me, due to the lack of time I was only able to answer today, will be ana
I realized that the sound problems I have are due to more than one factor, it is both acoustic and equalization, just like my SMSL SA100 ampliflier, which is bad, I am also exchanging the DAC for one that is a little more robust.

 

[Marcos Mazur]

The brightness can be explained by resonances in the upper mids, lower treble, and upper treble of your speakers. They have excess energy from 700 Hz to 2 kHz and again from 10 kHz and up. The fact that you aren't using a sub makes them thin, too, which exacerbates the problem.
You can try the EQ settings found here and see if it helps: https://pierreaubert.github.io/spinorama/eqs.html

I made your corrections on the link with APO Equalizer and I also considerably reduced the mids and trebles for testing, it really helped, I also made an acoustic treatment with foams on the walls, the tonality was a little more natural with all this, but in a considerable level, the sound is neither pleasant nor musical so to speak, I still feel the pains in my ears especially in the right ear.

Pioneer SP-BS22-LR Bookshelf Speaker Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Pioneer SP-BS22-LR desktop/bookshelf budget speakers. I purchased them recently from Amazon for US $118 including Prime shipping. But I hear they go on sale for much less money. The build quality is incredible given the very low price: The...

www.audiosciencereview.com

I think these measurements are the most accurate. Would you say that even with EQ and treated room, these resonances could be causing harshness in the sound? What could be another cause? I usually feel pain and discomfort in the ears after listening for more than half an hour, but at certain times it feels ''normal'', until I feel pain again, I've checked it out and it's really not something with my ears, because elsewhere it doesn't I feel none of it.

I'm still using these same speakers, I had to invest in other things and due to covid and so on, I still couldn't buy a better one (I'm also in doubt about which to choose). I replaced the SMLS SA100 with the Allo Volt+D amp and I'm using the Topping E30 DAC with the LPS Allo Shanti, obviously the sound has improved a lot, I would say it's more tolerable now, but it's not that pleasant and musical sound, I found this very strange since I created this thread, I still think.

 

[Marcos Mazur]

The frequency response tells you more than the reputation. The people who describe it as non-tiring can have a different personal taste, or even a specific variety of hearing loss that fits this speaker well. Or maybe they don't listen to it near field, and their room/setup "solves" some of the problems. There's really no way of knowing for sure.

Today more than ever I see that this is a fact, reviews can be more relative than they seem, people often listen absently to this equipment and don't notice the annoyances, but I'm quite annoying, I realize.

 

[Marcos Mazur]

3 Steps:

1) Update speakers to AA mod as discussed extensively here @ ASR, this will help a lot, especially the better treble driver,
2) Replace your SMSL amp with the recently reviewed Allo Volt D+ (w/30 V DC power supply -- find one on amazon)
3) Replace the TempoTec DAC with a Topping E30 (I think asking the TempoTec "dongle Dac" to drive the amp's high impedence line input is asking a bit much of the Sonata HD's "on chip" headphone amp stage, part of the Cirrus Logic DAC chip I believe??) -- I'd go the E30 route to get a remote volume control

This is the kind of rig I'd buy today if I was starting out, with modest funds...

Then EQ as needed/wanted, to taste....

Great suggestions, I appreciate it, I followed these recommendations and now I'm using the Volt+D with the Topping E30, I just haven't upgraded the Pioneer SB22-LR yet, I'm researching more and I see that to get the most out of this amp and dac, I need better bookshelf, but even with these speakers I've already noticed a big improvement.

 

[Marcos Mazur]

I would highly recommend getting a mic with calibration, doing some measurements with REW and then use its eq wizard to create some filters to apply in something like equaliserAPO. I spent years trying to get my system right and in the end measurements were the key!

this video got me started, someone on here posted it and it was a game changer for me.

Nice! I plan to do this in the future with these corrections, it will be an improvement and a new experience for me, I installed Room EQ and am getting used to it.

 

[Marcos Mazur]

seja bem vindo.


first thing to do would be to take meassurements.
are the speakers on a table or something like that?

Yes, at the moment the boxes are spaced apart on a normal desktop table, to reduce the vibrations i put them on simple foams, it actually reduces it just a little bit.

 

[Marcos Mazur]

Those are not solutions but EQ may be. I would start with REW to see what is wrong and then find a way to implement it.

EQ helped considerable softening, but I still have the problem, even with better dac and amp.

 

[Chrispy]

The chasing of dac/amp won't be as effective as better speakers or even just a better position for you/and or the speakers. Got a pic of your listening position?

 

[Marcos Mazur]

Possibly- but I doubt its the DAC....

The Tempotec Sonata DAC is very good and the measurements prove it, for the price it's great, but in this setup I talked about here, I thought it was terrible (I now use a Topping E30) and even with headphones on my laptop the Tempotece Sonata is a little tiring, I actually like the sound of it to some extent, but I feel something weird that I get tired of it sometimes... of course I have a certain sensitivity and may be asking too much wanting this DAC to be a perfection for the price.

 

[Marcos Mazur]

The chasing of dac/amp won't be as effective as better speakers or even just a better position for you/and or the speakers. Got a pic of your listening position?

These are the photos, sorry for the bad quality, the lighting in this room is very relaxed so it doesn't reveal the quality of a photo taken with a cell phone. On the side walls, as you see in the photo, there is a lot of acoustic foam, the speakers are slightly out of level for being on two tables (I believe this is not a big problem), they are 2m apart. I haven't made a better table yet due to lack of time to better organize cables and so on
Anyway, it's a small room with about 4 x 3 meters.

 

[Marcos Mazur]

You can try listening to sinewave sweep, on Youtube videos or using some apps. And try to find some excessive peaks and tame it with parametric EQ or room acoustic treatment. For more accurate result, use measurement mic and software. But if you don't want to spend on the tools, you can use your own ears, with more difficulty and maybe the time needed to get decent result.

It's a good idea, I'll check each frequency later for any imbalance. appreciate.

 

[Marcos Mazur]

Easy - Buy an audiophile cable!

What kind of cable do you suggest?

 

[Marcos Mazur]

Listen to some Dean Martin,

If that's harsh, it's the gear.

If not, maybe check your musical inclinations.

I listen to a lot of rock, metal, but also classical and new age, especially rock sounds with good fidelity, but there is no ''musicality'' sounds very ''dry'' in my setup and I go through the problems mentioned here.

 

[Marcos Mazur]

I have a Hidzs S8 and have tried it with a NAD C316BEE driving a set of the Pioneer 22's....short story -- it wasn't ideal....

How would you describe the sound quality in this setting?
Today I use Allo Volt+D (4-8ohm - 2x60W) with Pioneer SB22, would it be suitable? I'm not sure if the Pioneers are like Andrew Jones' Elacs that require a lot of power to be at maximum quality, from what I've been researching the lack of a little more power gives the speakers the possibility to reproduce a rougher sound.

 

[Mal]

What may be causing harshness and annoying sound in my setup? it happens in any music I listen to on my pc, any format and any player I try.
I make it clear that I don't talk about noticeable noises or sound distortions (ground loop and stuff like that, I think), I'm also not listening at high volume or having any ear problems, THE FACT is that despite my desktop sound configuration sounds clean, detailed and balanced, I still realize that the sound doesn’t sound natural and pleasant, getting tired quickly, sometimes I even feel mild "needles" in my ears, hurting a little.

Something’s wrong, what would be the problem? It's frustrating because I spent a reasonable amount of money here in Brazil trying to improve the quality of my desktop sound.

I'm currently using:
Bookshelf Pioneer SP BS22-LR + Amplifier SMSL SA100 + DAC Tempotec Sonata HD Pro + Robust audio cables / RCA and Foobar 2000 Player.

"...that tweeter is spitting hot fire above 12k."

Pioneer SP-BS22-LR Bookshelf Loudspeakers - NO Audiophile!

noaudiophile.com

I'm having similar harshess problems with my wharfedale 9.0 + Aiyima 07 Amp + Topping 10s Dac

Are we being too cheap?

I don't have these problems with my TV/main-music speakers (KEF LSX) or my Senn HD 650 headphones. Any passive speakers that might give me a similar lack of harshess?