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Marcos Mazur

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What may be causing harshness and annoying sound in my setup? it happens in any music I listen to on my pc, any format and any player I try.
I make it clear that I don't talk about noticeable noises or sound distortions (ground loop and stuff like that, I think), I'm also not listening at high volume or having any ear problems, THE FACT is that despite my desktop sound configuration sounds clean, detailed and balanced, I still realize that the sound doesn’t sound natural and pleasant, getting tired quickly, sometimes I even feel mild "needles" in my ears, hurting a little.

Something’s wrong, what would be the problem? It's frustrating because I spent a reasonable amount of money here in Brazil trying to improve the quality of my desktop sound.

I'm currently using:
Bookshelf Pioneer SP BS22-LR + Amplifier SMSL SA100 + DAC Tempotec Sonata HD Pro + Robust audio cables / RCA and Foobar 2000 Player.
 
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flipflop

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The brightness can be explained by resonances in the upper mids, lower treble, and upper treble of your speakers. They have excess energy from 700 Hz to 2 kHz and again from 10 kHz and up. The fact that you aren't using a sub makes them thin, too, which exacerbates the problem.
You can try the EQ settings found here and see if it helps: https://pierreaubert.github.io/spinorama/eqs.html
 
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Marcos Mazur

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Thank you, wow! I found these improvements interesting, but I'm still afraid to be very lay and have little practice in customizing equipment.
I really like the sound of the speakers, but I feel that the harsness is not due to the components, at least I think, the reviews I read all mention it as a "non-fatigating" sound.
 
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Marcos Mazur

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The brightness can be explained by resonances in the upper mids, lower treble, and upper treble of your speakers. They have excess energy from 700 Hz to 2 kHz and again from 10 kHz and up. The fact that you aren't using a sub makes them thin, too, which exacerbates the problem.
You can try the EQ settings found here and see if it helps: https://pierreaubert.github.io/spinorama/eqs.html

I will consider this possibility, I hadn’t even thought about it, I’ll try later, would it be appropriate to equalize on the Foobar 2000 DSP's? (Graphic Equalizer, in this case), or is there a good generic that I can do directly for windows 10?
Thanks, I was kind of hopeful.
 

pma

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1) speakers
2) some kind of EMI, HF interference, superimposed on digital source output - there is no simple advice unless you are experienced in this field
 
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Marcos Mazur

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The brightness can be explained by resonances in the upper mids, lower treble, and upper treble of your speakers. They have excess energy from 700 Hz to 2 kHz and again from 10 kHz and up. The fact that you aren't using a sub makes them thin, too, which exacerbates the problem.
You can try the EQ settings found here and see if it helps: https://pierreaubert.github.io/spinorama/eqs.html

it is a fact that these Pioneer are not the best in sound depth, but I notice that they have some good level of depth and in the amplifier I always set adjusted with -1 of treble and -1 of bass, it is less ''toxic bright'', but still harsh :(. damn!
I find it very abnormal what I feel in the sound, since before I used cheap edifier's and despite the limited sound, it did not cause this to me.
 
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Marcos Mazur

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Setup, room acoustics and, perhaps, excessive expectations from entry level stuff.:oops:

In fact, man, I've been trying to adjust this for a few months, I have had little success, I even use an audioquest filter in the DAC, the Jitterbug, which relieves bright / harsh, but does not completely eliminate it, I will consider an acoustic problem in the room for a while , it is a small room and perhaps an equalization is useful. Thanks
 

flipflop

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would it be appropriate to equalize on the Foobar 2000 DSP's? (Graphic Equalizer, in this case)
No, graphic equalizers are poor and won't work the settings I linked.
or is there a good generic that I can do directly for windows 10?
Equalizer APO is the go-to option for Windows: https://sourceforge.net/projects/equalizerapo
The Peace GUI makes it easier to use: https://sourceforge.net/projects/peace-equalizer-apo-extension
 
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Marcos Mazur

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1) speakers
2) some kind of EMI, HF interference, superimposed on digital source output - there is no simple advice unless you are experienced in this field

Noise pollution by EMI is one of the possibilities that I believe, I have been trying, the speakers still do not believe to be the problem due to the reputation of not being a tiring sound, before that I think it could be the amplifier, but I don't know enough to say.
Today I even tried to use a P2 noise filter, but I was confused, because there was a "buzzz" and a bigger "hisss" in the sound (it seems that it got worse instead of getting better, because before there was only a smooth "hissss"), but it disappears from the moment I play music in the player (WTF!), I bought another filter similar of another brand to test and gave the same result, it's kind of uncertain but like you said, sometimes it's just trying.
I also use a USB Jitterbug filter that softens the harsh, but doesn’t eliminate it, another thing I’ve thought about is trying a better IFI Silencer filter, but it’s kind of expensive and I don’t want to spend on something that maybe doesn’t solve.
Today I will try to connect everything on another PC to see if something changes.
Thanks for the answer.
 

Jimbob54

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I would stop spending money trying to fix it anywhere before or including the dac, although try lowering the input into the dac by a couple of dB.

As others gave said, speakers, room and just maybe driving the amp too hard. I think Kal probably nailed it.
 

tjf

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What may be causing harshness and annoying sound in my setup? it happens in any music I listen to on my pc, any format and any player I try.
I make it clear that I don't talk about noticeable noises or sound distortions (ground loop and stuff like that, I think), I'm also not listening at high volume or having any ear problems, THE FACT is that despite my desktop sound configuration sounds clean, detailed and balanced, I still realize that the sound doesn’t sound natural and pleasant, getting tired quickly, sometimes I even feel mild "needles" in my ears, hurting a little.

Something’s wrong, what would be the problem? It's frustrating because I spent a reasonable amount of money here in Brazil trying to improve the quality of my desktop sound.

I'm currently using:
Bookshelf Pioneer SP BS22-LR + Amplifier SMSL SA100 + DAC Tempotec Sonata HD Pro + Robust audio cables / RCA and Foobar 2000 Player.



3 Steps:

1) Update speakers to AA mod as discussed extensively here @ ASR, this will help a lot, especially the better treble driver,
2) Replace your SMSL amp with the recently reviewed Allo Volt D+ (w/30 V DC power supply -- find one on amazon)
3) Replace the TempoTec DAC with a Topping E30 (I think asking the TempoTec "dongle Dac" to drive the amp's high impedence line input is asking a bit much of the Sonata HD's "on chip" headphone amp stage, part of the Cirrus Logic DAC chip I believe??) -- I'd go the E30 route to get a remote volume control

This is the kind of rig I'd buy today if I was starting out, with modest funds...

Then EQ as needed/wanted, to taste....
 

RayDunzl

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Listen to some Dean Martin,

If that's harsh, it's the gear.

If not, maybe check your musical inclinations.
 

tjf

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I have a Hidzs S8 and have tried it with a NAD C316BEE driving a set of the Pioneer 22's....short story -- it wasn't ideal....

Asking the Cirrus' CS43130 DAC on board chip amp to drive an integrated amp line input (even a sensitive one) is a big ask...

At the very minimum a more powerful amp is indicated...
 

Killingbeans

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the speakers still do not believe to be the problem due to the reputation of not being a tiring sound

The frequency response tells you more than the reputation. The people who describe it as non-tiring can have a different personal taste, or even a specific variety of hearing loss that fits this speaker well. Or maybe they don't listen to it near field, and their room/setup "solves" some of the problems. There's really no way of knowing for sure.
 

Kal Rubinson

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In fact, man, I've been trying to adjust this for a few months, I have had little success, I even use an audioquest filter in the DAC, the Jitterbug, which relieves bright / harsh, but does not completely eliminate it, I will consider an acoustic problem in the room for a while , it is a small room and perhaps an equalization is useful. Thanks
Those are not solutions but EQ may be. I would start with REW to see what is wrong and then find a way to implement it.
 
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