Home theater receiver options...everything seems to have compromises this year...thoughts? recommendations?

[Bren Derlin]

This year I replaced my AVR from 2001

Just replaced our 19 year old Denon AVR 3805. Absolutely ZERO hdmi inputs/outputs. Really got frustrating swapping HDMI cables on the back of Sammy Plasma after one port quit working.

 

[RF Air]

@Bren Derlin Just received my Denon X4800H today replacing a Denon AVR 5600. It was a stellar performer. Needed to upgrade to the new TV's and Tech. I can relate!

 

[Bren Derlin]

@Bren Derlin Just received my Denon X4800H today replacing a Denon AVR 5600. It was a stellar performer. Needed to upgrade to the new TV's and Tech. I can relate!

Same. The 3805 was so good. Just kept putting off the upgrade because it never showed signs of quitting. Even when the remote died, it was still easy to use — even though Denon was no longer making replacement remotes for an AVR that old.

Plus….it had 120wpc, 7 channels driven at 8 ohms, and had the current to drive my Polk LSi15 speakers in my living room system.

When we built our new HT space in the basement, I bought Revel M16 speakers and an x2600H. Once I heard the M16 speakers, I figured I’d eventually use those speakers and receiver to replace slowly replace the old living room AVR and speakers. …happened faster than expected.

the basement HT
M106 replaced the M16
Anthem 540 8K replaced the Denon x2600H

the living room rig
M16 replaced the Polk LS15
New C205 replaced the Polk LSiC
x2600H replaced AVR3805

In 18 months, now have two new AV rigs in stead our 19 year old Mr Dependable.

Hoping these two systems can at least, last a good 10-15 years.

 

[peng]

Same. The 3805 was so good. Just kept putting off the upgrade because it never showed signs of quitting. Even when the remote died, it was still easy to use — even though Denon was no longer making replacement remotes for an AVR that old.

Plus….it had 120wpc, 7 channels driven at 8 ohms, and had the current to drive my Polk LSi15 speakers in my living room system.

When we built our new HT space in the basement, I bought Revel M16 speakers and an x2600H. Once I heard the M16 speakers, I figured I’d eventually use those speakers and receiver to replace slowly replace the old living room AVR and speakers. …happened faster than expected.

the basement HT
M106 replaced the M16
Anthem 540 8K replaced the Denon x2600H

the living room rig
M16 replaced the Polk LS15
New C205 replaced the Polk LSiC
x2600H replaced AVR3805

In 18 months, now have two new AV rigs in stead our 19 year old Mr Dependable.

Hoping these two systems can at least, last a good 10-15 years.

The 3805 can be used as a power amp for low impedance speakers. It actually was among a few AVRs that passed the 1 ohm torture test. Obviously it can only do well with 4 ohm nominal speakers for two channel applications, and only if not pushed close to reference level. For multichannel applications, then the volume should be dialed back a little, accordingly, all else being equal.

I never sold my 3805, and the 4308, those Denon's have very decent power amps and power supplies, better than the likes of Emotiva A series so called external power amps. Actually all those D+M AVRs that have the external multichannel analog inputs are good for use as external power amps if all one needs is 100 to 140 W X5.

 

[Reed]

Same. The 3805 was so good. Just kept putting off the upgrade because it never showed signs of quitting. Even when the remote died, it was still easy to use — even though Denon was no longer making replacement remotes for an AVR that old.

Plus….it had 120wpc, 7 channels driven at 8 ohms, and had the current to drive my Polk LSi15 speakers in my living room system.

When we built our new HT space in the basement, I bought Revel M16 speakers and an x2600H. Once I heard the M16 speakers, I figured I’d eventually use those speakers and receiver to replace slowly replace the old living room AVR and speakers. …happened faster than expected.

the basement HT
M106 replaced the M16
Anthem 540 8K replaced the Denon x2600H

the living room rig
M16 replaced the Polk LS15
New C205 replaced the Polk LSiC
x2600H replaced AVR3805

In 18 months, now have two new AV rigs in stead our 19 year old Mr Dependable.

Hoping these two systems can at least, last a good 10-15 years.

I have Revel M105, C205 a REL sub and some Goldenear in-ceiling rears. I’m replacing an old Marantz 1506 with either an Anthem MRX540 8k or something with Dirac. How do you like Anthem ARC? I use Dirac successfully in another setup and like it. Just a little uncertain about ARC. Any strong likes or dislikes about the MRX540?

 

[Bren Derlin]

I have Revel M105, C205 a REL sub and some Goldenear in-ceiling rears. I’m replacing an old Marantz 1506 with either an Anthem MRX540 8k or something with Dirac. How do you like Anthem ARC? I use Dirac successfully in another setup and like it. Just a little uncertain about ARC. Any strong likes or dislikes about the MRX540?

Haven’t been able to get ARC set up yet, hoping I can get the network thing figured out this weekend.

Regardless, our set up and room is simple, so not overly worried. It sounds phenomenal as-is. I’m mentioned it before, but there’s just something so “crisp” about this receiver - which isn’t a bad thing.

We’re heard nuanced details in movies we haven’t heard before, so it’s fun going back revisiting movies again.

 

[Descartes]

Every one is saying any receiver that will have the DIRAC new Live Active Room Treatment will be nirvana.

So it will be interesting to see if and when Marantz and Denon get that upgrade?

 

[dlaloum]

Every one is saying any receiver that will have the DIRAC new Live Active Room Treatment will be nirvana.

So it will be interesting to see if and when Marantz and Denon get that upgrade?

I wouldn't say that... it has the potential... (to be Nirvana) - but whether that potential is practically realised is yet to be seen.

We have not seen a single in depth review of DL-ART yet, and other than Beta Testers, it does not appear to be on the market yet, even on the Storm Audio gear... which seems to indicate that the final beta test phase is taking longer than they expected.... implying perhaps that they found some issues?

Yes - I honestly think it will be a massive thing when it is finally out and working to its potential, but when that will be.....

 

[funnychap]

Hello everyone. New guy here but long...LONGGGG time lurker. I've read hundreds of Amir's posts and posts from others over the years.
What prompted me to finally register has been the rather blah reviews by a host of new receivers. I had intended to buy a Denon 4800, 3800 or similar Marantz, now the Cinema 50 or 60.

However, after initial information from reviews here and a couple other places I'm now questioning whether buying something from the current crop of "Mainstream" receivers is a good idea. I'd like plenty of HDMI 2.1 inputs, while I'm not using it now with the exception of one port, when I buy an AVR I keep it for a long time so future proofing is important. My current receiver is a Denon 4200 which I bought new back in 2015. It sounds pretty good and keeps up with my system ok.

My current setup is the Denon 4200 AVR, and a Parasound Halo 2 ch amplifier for my two main channels. My speakers are primarily Dynaudio, the mains and center are a 4ohm load, the side channels also Dyns are a 6ohm load.

The rears, a recent addition are Klipsch. Yes I'm aware they aren't tonally matched but thankfully there's not a ton of traffic on those back two channels.

My sub is a single (for now) Rythmik FV15HP.

It seems AVRs from Denon are a step back this year. The Onkyo is RZ50 also not a go. Yamaha YPAO is pretty blah and in real tests they seem to be middle of the road for the money.

I'm wondering if I shouldn't just sit tight for awhile? I'd be willing to look at things like Arcam and Anthem but those seem to get similar mixed/blah reviews from folks who actually take measurements. We do listen at reference levels some and knowing that my Dyn's are a bit harder to drive vs something like a Klipsch I do take the amp section on the AVR more seriously than others might. While it certainly doesn't have to be pristine, I'd like it to be quite good. The system gets a mixture of movies, blu ray concerts, lossless music, TV shows, music videos with the kids on YT. It also gets a lot of use. All of our sources are 4k at this point.

I'd like to know if I'm missing anything on the AVR front, integrated has benefits (WAF) but could rip the bandaid off and probably go separates but I've not really found a processor that seems great for reasonable $ either.

I'm really just at a loss unless the Cinema C50 and/or 60 happen to test really well. Marantz also has a history of coloring the sound a bit, making it warmer which I'm not fond of.

With DIRAC moving down market...finally...maybe I should give things another year and perhaps an NAD, Arcam or Anthem will have an AVR that's worth buying? Help? Thoughts?

I've been in the hobby since 2000. I have the Arcam AVR5 in a 7.2.4 setup with my 150in screen and even the Arcam by itself sounds way way better than my Denon X3700H in a 5.2.4 setup even with 100% external amps. And yes, I did compare both receivers in the same room.

Guest bedroom/theater with 150in screen in a 7.2.4 setup:
Arcam AVR5 powers LCR
Emotiva BasX-A3 powers surround L and R (BasX does not have good dynamic range so I relegate it to the surrounds)
3 old Denon 1912 receivers power the rear surrounds and 4 atmos speakers
2 subwoofers: Definitive Technology Supercube 6000 and 2000

Family room in a 5.2.4 setup:
Denon X3700H powers the center channel, surround L and R, 4 atmos
Parasound Zonemaster 2 powers the L and R (and makes 2-channels music way better than Denon or Emotiva BasX-A3).
2 subwoofers: Definitive Technology Supercube 6000 and 2000

 

[funnychap]

Better yet buy separates and upgrade the gear as you like. Start with a well thought out preamp with all the goodies you will use. Not what you want!

I like a AVP with great reviews and a long listen for music. They will have the most to offer and a long time between changes or failures.

Sorry to say 3-5 years is a push for most of the equipment called an "AVR". Failure rates are high vs separates. I do have and HK AVR 7.1 75wpc that was
still working 10 years ago and a Denon that was never used, I guess it works. The only failures I have have had were self inflicted (a cable drop) or tube
fires. I love um!!! The wife she gets excited, but she likes fireworks too.

 

[funnychap]

The thing with integrated versus components/separates (pre-pro, dac, amp, etc.) is that the more components you add, the more the chances that you'll get a hum or buzz.

 

[jimglobe]

I must be the king of old. Pioneer Kuro 9th gen hooked up to a Yamaha CX-A5000, hooked up to a Sony STR-DB930 from 1993 and a Yamaha M65 from 1980-something into Polk Audio RTi10 fronts and RTiA center and surrounds.

I've foregone 3D, 4k, HDR, Dolby Vision, DTS:X, and Dobly Atmos. Are these worth having?

Agree, that most of the new stuff is just gimmicky to sell gear. I have a 5.1 setup still with a Sony 1080p projector and believe anything past that is barely noticeable if at all. ATMOS is mostly not implemented well because studios don't want to pay to have a tech sit and code it. Perhaps I will upgrade to some of the newer stuff eventually if the price is substantially lower. I could easily afford to right now, but I just can't justify wasting money whether I have it or not. Most consumers are going to soundbars and big TVS because they can't see or hear the difference, and want to enjoy their systems not upgrade them constantly.

 

[Dj7675]

Agree, that most of the new stuff is just gimmicky to sell gear. I have a 5.1 setup still with a Sony 1080p projector and believe anything past that is barely noticeable if at all. ATMOS is mostly not implemented well because studios don't want to pay to have a tech sit and code it. Perhaps I will upgrade to some of the newer stuff eventually if the price is substantially lower. I could easily afford to right now, but I just can't justify wasting money whether I have it or not. Most consumers are going to soundbars and big TVS because they can't see or hear the difference, and want to enjoy their systems not upgrade them constantly.

The same has been said going from mono to stereo and stereo to 5.1. Discrete sounds coming from actual speakers, in particular with more than 1 listener, is better. A properly set up Atmos system, playing native Atmos/DTS:X or upmixed 5.1 content is dramatically better IMO.

 

[jimglobe]

The same has been said going from mono to stereo and stereo to 5.1. Discrete sounds coming from actual speakers, in particular with more than 1 listener, is better. A properly set up Atmos system, playing native Atmos/DTS:X or upmixed 5.1 content is dramatically better IMO.

There is some good ATMOS content, but there is a ton of content where if you turn off all your other speakers (except the ATMOS ones) and you will hear silence when there should obviously be sound in those speakers. Of course you can up mix and force sound there if you want.

 

[Neddy]

I left AVRs in disgust after the Onkyo 906 overheating debacle decades(!) ago. (I still have the 906, audio only still works ok, for the test bench).

Now I'm running a PC w/7.1 channels, all with top tier (ASR) components, but still using an old 1080i sony projector - and refuse to replace it until the lamp dies (NLA). I too have an old Panny Plasma, but that's not in the music room.

For movies and Blurays I use an older Oppo as surround decoder and analog outputs, to an ADC to USB.
(AppleTV or other streamers use the Oppo's HDMI In.)
I also don't have room for a full size AVR, as my main rack is full, and the AVR system is sqoze into smaller shelves hidden elsewhere.

I use relatively inexpensive center and surrounds and a class AB surround (5 ch) amp - something like $2k all told for the center & surround stuff.
So not quite a top tier input chain for that stuff, but it gets the job done.

I've listened to a number of Apple Music surround tracks, and have not been impressed - clearly not worth it for that alone.

BUT, I host a movie night about once a week with up to 4 visitors, and the relatively plebian audio chain for movies gets rave reviews every time, and of course the 12' 'screen' is a huge hit.

For movies - especially with a projector - this 'medium' quality stuff for audio is perfectly fine (still probably better noise/dyn range than the better AVRs). And a 7.1 system is just perfect for that - my guests still flinch or duck when a 'missile' goes flying by one of the back channels!!

But it's freakin complicated - lots of remotes involved, and the PC has to be rebooted occasionally to 'remember' it's got a USB analog input!

If I were starting over with the electronics, I guess I'd look for a good used AVR that supports as many surround decoders as you want - Atmos is just at the higher/newer end of things.

I'd still use a great ADC->USB to get it all into the PC for sound management capabilities, tho.

For speakers, I'd look hard at the WISA offerings - there finally seem to be more of those coming up. Wiring those things is a royal pain, so I'd at least consider that. (I gave up on waiting for a decent 'surround only' WISA offering, moderately priced.)

BUT, Put your real money in the front channels and subs - most of the Bang! comes from that anyway, and will assure that you have superb 2.1 channel music reproduction.
So use USB devices ("PC" + DACS and amps) which offer a LOT more quality (esp for the money) than any of the AVRs. Dynamic range on the front channels in particular is a major deal - don't skimp on that!

There are many different ways to skin the AV surround cat - and Atmos just raises the cost/benefit barrier.

 

[funnychap]

There is some good ATMOS content, but there is a ton of content where if you turn off all your other speakers (except the ATMOS ones) and you will hear silence when there should obviously be sound in those speakers. Of course you can up mix and force sound there if you want.

Don't upmix, upmixing is incorrect when I hear the phantom's voice in the movie 'phantom of the opera' in the height speakers. Just play the movie as recorded whether it's 5.1 or 7.1 or Atmos or DTS:X

 

[funnychap]

I left AVRs in disgust after the Onkyo 906 overheating debacle decades(!) ago. (I still have the 906, audio only still works ok, for the test bench).

Now I'm running a PC w/7.1 channels, all with top tier (ASR) components, but still using an old 1080i sony projector - and refuse to replace it until the lamp dies (NLA). I too have an old Panny Plasma, but that's not in the music room.

For movies and Blurays I use an older Oppo as surround decoder and analog outputs, to an ADC to USB.
(AppleTV or other streamers use the Oppo's HDMI In.)
I also don't have room for a full size AVR, as my main rack is full, and the AVR system is sqoze into smaller shelves hidden elsewhere.

I use relatively inexpensive center and surrounds and a class AB surround (5 ch) amp - something like $2k all told for the center & surround stuff.
So not quite a top tier input chain for that stuff, but it gets the job done.

I've listened to a number of Apple Music surround tracks, and have not been impressed - clearly not worth it for that alone.

BUT, I host a movie night about once a week with up to 4 visitors, and the relatively plebian audio chain for movies gets rave reviews every time, and of course the 12' 'screen' is a huge hit.

For movies - especially with a projector - this 'medium' quality stuff for audio is perfectly fine (still probably better noise/dyn range than the better AVRs). And a 7.1 system is just perfect for that - my guests still flinch or duck when a 'missile' goes flying by one of the back channels!!

But it's freakin complicated - lots of remotes involved, and the PC has to be rebooted occasionally to 'remember' it's got a USB analog input!

If I were starting over with the electronics, I guess I'd look for a good used AVR that supports as many surround decoders as you want - Atmos is just at the higher/newer end of things.

I'd still use a great ADC->USB to get it all into the PC for sound management capabilities, tho.

For speakers, I'd look hard at the WISA offerings - there finally seem to be more of those coming up. Wiring those things is a royal pain, so I'd at least consider that. (I gave up on waiting for a decent 'surround only' WISA offering, moderately priced.)

BUT, Put your real money in the front channels and subs - most of the Bang! comes from that anyway, and will assure that you have superb 2.1 channel music reproduction.
So use USB devices ("PC" + DACS and amps) which offer a LOT more quality (esp for the money) than any of the AVRs. Dynamic range on the front channels in particular is a major deal - don't skimp on that!

There are many different ways to skin the AV surround cat - and Atmos just raises the cost/benefit barrier.

lol, I started with home theater in 2000 with 2 Onkyos and they overheated and the center channel was weak and unclear so it was hard to understand the dialogue.

In 2010 I upgraded to Denon 1912 and it was better.

In 2020 I upgraded to Denon S760H and it was better, but u can't upgrade to use external amps.

In 2021 I upgraded to Denon X3700H which was better (can use external amps) but not when I auditioned $90k-$1m systems.

In 2022 I upgraded to Arcam AVR5 (better DAC and twice the maximum power supply of Denon X3700H) and wow....nirvana clarity and details in 2-channels music and movies in 7.2.4 (Arcam only powers 7 speakers so you'll need external amps for more channels beyond 7. Arcam AVR5 can process up to 11 channels).

I added a 2nd identical sealed subwoofer which made a huge improvement.

In summary, it's better to have a great 5.1 setup than a poor/mediocre setup beyond 5 speakers (for Dolby Atmos or DTS:X).

Also, upgrade the quality of your sources (music: I upgraded from Spotify to Apple Music lossless and it has spatial audio, movies: Apple TV or physical media on Panasonic 4k blu-ray player DP-UB420-K or higher)

 

[jimglobe]

Don't upmix, upmixing is incorrect when I hear the phantom's voice in the movie 'phantom of the opera' in the height speakers. Just play the movie as recorded whether it's 5.1 or 7.1 or Atmos or DTS:X

Agree. I dont like upmixing or think it sounds good.

 

[jimglobe]

lol, I started with home theater in 2000 with 2 Onkyos and they overheated and the center channel was weak and unclear so it was hard to understand the dialogue.

In 2010 I upgraded to Denon 1912 and it was better.

In 2020 I upgraded to Denon S760H and it was better, but u can't upgrade to use external amps.

In 2021 I upgraded to Denon X3700H which was better (can use external amps) but not when I auditioned $90k-$1m systems.

In 2022 I upgraded to Arcam AVR5 (better DAC and twice the maximum power supply of Denon X3700H) and wow....nirvana clarity and details in 2-channels music and movies in 7.2.4 (Arcam only powers 7 speakers so you'll need external amps for more channels beyond 7. Arcam AVR5 can process up to 11 channels).

I added a 2nd identical sealed subwoofer which made a huge improvement.

In summary, it's better to have a great 5.1 setup than a poor/mediocre setup beyond 5 speakers (for Dolby Atmos or DTS:X).

Also, upgrade the quality of your sources (music: I upgraded from Spotify to Apple Music lossless and it has spatial audio, movies: Apple TV or physical media on Panasonic 4k blu-ray player DP-UB420-K or higher)

You said the key words here that most people don't understand. These words are golden:

"In summary, it's better to have a great 5.1 setup than a poor/mediocre setup beyond 5 speakers (for Dolby Atmos or DTS:X)."

 

[rana_kirti]

Yes i was going to buy the 3800 but can't because of the review here. It will always play on my mind. The 4800 is too expensive and the 4700 dac got changed which also I read here. Not gonna buy any other avr without Auro3D. So have decided to wait till next year's releases and hoping for a positive recommendation from asr.