Hivi 3.1A DIY Speaker With Sehlin Mod Review

[radio3]

Looking at this pic, my Wharfedale EVO 4.2 is suspiciously looking like a clone of this kit, especially the use of dome midrange and kevlar woofer haha
View attachment 81481

Same with Swanns M3.

 

[tktran303]

Well, In this case, they ARE the same.

On the other hand, the Wharfedale EVO 4.2 ... well, imitation is the highest form of flattery...

 

[radio3]

Yes I wonder if the Wharfedales perform well. The enclosure is nice with the filleted edges.

 

[Billy Budapest]

Same with Swanns M3.

My understanding is that Swans is the Canadian company that designs the speakers and HiVi is the Chinese manufacturer that designs and builds the drivers and builds the speakers for Swans. There is some kind of common or overlapping ownership between the two companies. Some of the Swans line is pretty dang expensive too.

 

[Chromatischism]

Same with Swanns M3.

I guess Wharfedale are secret HiVi admirers.

They have moved on from the dome midrange though:

https://swanspeakers.com/product/active-hi-fi-bookshelf-speakers-m500/

Several of their speakers are using the aluminum-magnesium driver:

https://swanspeakers.com/product-category/multimedia/

 

[typericey]

It is harder to do small EQ adjustment using passive parts. They are expensive to boot. Here are my EQ settings by the way:

View attachment 81444

What EQ software do you use?

 

[amirm]

What EQ software do you use?

One built into my streaming player (Roon). Makes it easy as I can play my content and adjust the EQ.

 

[orangejello]

Same with Swanns M3.

Not too surprising. Swan is the consumer line of speakers that HiVi produces and markets. HiVi has massive R&D and produces a huge variety of drivers and finished speakers. About 10 years ago, you could buy Swan speakers on the "grey" market here in the US and pay very little. Not anymore. I had the M3's for awhile. The build quality of these thing is stellar. That wood on the M3 is 1/2" - 5/8" solid cherry. It wraps 3/4" mdf and the woodwork is world class. A look inside the speaker reveals very sophisticated porting and bracing. Also that dome midrange is a very fine driver IMO. Here is a link to the original M3. The pictures are excellent, but it is hard to appreciate the design without getting an up close look.

I agree that a dome tweeter would probably have been a better choice, but the M3's are really good in any case. I have compared the M3 and it much bigger brother the M6 to many speakers including Sonus Faber, PSB, B&W, and Dynaudio. I always walked away preferring the Swans. I think there are more dealers for Swan in the EU where the brand seems to be well regarded.

 

[orangejello]

My understanding is that Swans is the Canadian company that designs the speakers and HiVi is the Chinese manufacturer that designs and builds the drivers and builds the speakers for Swans. There is some kind of common or overlapping ownership between the two companies. Some of the Swans line is pretty dang expensive too.

It might not be a bad bet that PSBs are manufactured by Swan. Just guessing though.

 

[maxxevv]

Not too surprising. Swan is the consumer line of speakers that HiVi produces and markets. HiVi has massive R&D and produces a huge variety of drivers and finished speakers. About 10 years ago, you could buy Swan speakers on the "grey" market here in the US and pay very little. Not anymore. I had the M3's for awhile. The build quality of these thing is stellar. That wood on the M3 is 1/2" - 5/8" solid cherry. It wraps 3/4" mdf and the woodwork is world class. A look inside the speaker reveals very sophisticated porting and bracing. Also that dome midrange is a very fine driver IMO. Here is a link to the original M3. The pictures are excellent, but it is hard to appreciate the design without getting an up close look.

I agree that a dome tweeter would probably have been a better choice, but the M3's are really good in any case. I have compared the M3 and it much bigger brother the M6 to many speakers including Sonus Faber, PSB, B&W, and Dynaudio. I always walked away preferring the Swans. I think there are more dealers for Swan in the EU where the brand seems to be well regarded.

Have been casting an eye on the H6.

If their published FR measurements are accurate, those are impressive.

https://swanspeakers.com/product/hi-fi-stereo-active-speakers-h6/

 

[Chromatischism]

Have been casting an eye on the H6.

If their published FR measurements are accurate, those are impressive.

https://swanspeakers.com/product/hi-fi-stereo-active-speakers-h6/

Speaking of that, I wonder what would cause the woofer to bump up like that (50-100 Hz) when played loud?

Directivity looks decent, response has a bump at 2-3k which is the fatigue region but since its off-axis that might mitigate that somewhat, dip at 1k off-axis may not be preferable. Not bad though.

 

[maxxevv]

Speaking of that, I wonder what would cause the woofer to bump up like that (50-100 Hz) when played loud?

View attachment 81649

Directivity looks decent, response has a bump at 2-3k which is the fatigue region but since its off-axis that might mitigate that somewhat, dip at 1k off-axis may not be preferable. Not bad though.
View attachment 81650

Those are over 20 degrees outside of the horizontal plane centerline. Not a real issue unless you are sitting really close and off directed center.
At 8 feet distance, you are getting approximately a 4 feet width within that 20~25 degree arc.

 

[Chromatischism]

Those are over 20 degrees outside of the horizontal plane centerline. Not a real issue unless you are sitting really close and off directed center.
At 8 feet distance, you are getting approximately a 4 feet width within that 20~25 degree arc.

It will be part of the reflected sound, which combines with the direct sound.

 

[w1000i]

@amirm can you measure time alignment between drivers ( frequency if this concept is applicable) ?

 

[b1daly]

Well damn! Two DIY’s in a row...think this could be a trend? I’ve heard good things about the Hivi 3.1’s with the mod....glad they didn’t disappoint!
Amir, you’re not allowed anywhere near my old ADS L 710’s... ; )

What do you think of the L710s? I’m a fan of ADS and own many pairs. I have the L710 v2 and I think it was one of their best designs. I much prefer it to L810 which is mystifying. I wonder what having the tweeter mounted next to midrange would look like measured?

I get somewhat frustrated with their ‘voicing‘ and wind up EQing them. But with EQ they sound phenomenal to my ear. I have a pair of L400s running with a cheap sub that kind of blow my mind.

In general I find them too bright, but it’s somewhat recording specific. On many recordings of that era and earlier they sound spot on. Something happened in recording where the desire for more treble introduced a lot of distortion. It also might be ‘improved‘ recorders weren‘t as rolled off as the analog decks of the 60s and 70s.

 

[Dmitri]

What do you think of the L710s? I’m a fan of ADS and own many pairs. I have the L710 v2 and I think it was one of their best designs. I much prefer it to L810 which is mystifying. I wonder what having the tweeter mounted next to midrange would look like measured?

I get somewhat frustrated with their ‘voicing‘ and wind up EQing them. But with EQ they sound phenomenal to my ear. I have a pair of L400s running with a cheap sub that kind of blow my mind.

In general I find them too bright, but it’s somewhat recording specific. On many recordings of that era and earlier they sound spot on. Something happened in recording where the desire for more treble introduced a lot of distortion. It also might be ‘improved‘ recorders weren‘t as rolled off as the analog decks of the 60s and 70s.

Wanders off topic a bit, not that that ever happens here at ASR... ; ) but since it’s not about Pizza ovens, pineapple, or feral swine I’m not sure it’s appropriate to post here, so I’ll PM you, OK?

 

[Billy Budapest]

My understanding is that Swans is the Canadian company that designs the speakers and HiVi is the Chinese manufacturer that designs and builds the drivers and builds the speakers for Swans. There is some kind of common or overlapping ownership between the two companies. Some of the Swans line is pretty dang expensive too.

Yeah, here is the history of Swans and HiVi. Pretty much exactly what I stated above except that Swans moved from Toronto to California:

https://www.swans-europe.eu/swans-historie-homecinema-hifi+M52087573ab0.html

 

[xarkkon]

great review as always! i always particularly enjoy the DIY ones. looks like a pretty high score, better than the xls encore, and a decent price. i'm impressed!

 

[Mudjock]

I would like to take a little time to provide more information and address a few questions and comments.

First of all, many thanks to Amir for the review. I put him through a lot for this review. I freely admit that most of the speakers I build can best be thought of as prototypes. Drivers are frequently connected with removable connectors as opposed to solder. I've had a last minute defective driver replacement at a DIY event/competition and it's a lot easier than bringing a soldering iron... Crossover boards are often mounted in such a way to be removable for future tweaking. All of these issue came home to roost for this review as Amir's first comment was that something was rattling inside the cabinet, which turned out to be the crossover board that came loose during shipping. When Amir reattached that and ran his tests, it was apparent that the tweeter had no output, so he had to open them back up, reattach the tweeter wires, and remeasure. I wouldn't have blamed him at all for sliding these down on the Panther scale, but he did the opposite. If I send anything in the future, I will at least make sure the assembly methods are fit for commercial ground transportation.

HiVi deserves all the credit the cabinet design and tuning that protects the woofer and the midrange, enabling distortion to stay under control at high output. They picked a good set of drivers for this kit, which is what initially interested me, as I had previously heard all of the drivers (and worked with the midrange on another project).

I always thought it was odd that they chose to design a crossover with such a rising response. This is straight from the swanspeakers website.

I saw an assembled pair for sale on our local craigslist and decided that it would be fun to see if they sounded like the manufacturer's response curve indicated and see what it would take to flatten the response curve. I step through the process on the Midwest Audio Club forum

MAC/DIY HiVi DIY 3.1 Post

I summarized the results on my Sehlin Sound Solutions page. The speakers reviewed include the option 4 "perfectionist option" crossover.

No, there is no perfection here

This is certainly true. There are a number of reasons for that, but the name is perhaps a bit misleading. I set out to see if simply tweaking resistors could fix the crossover, but that wound up not to be the case. Although I could bring the mids and highs in balance with the bass, the response was very uneven as shown in options 1-3. For option 4, I constrained myself in a couple of ways:

1. Add no complexity to the assembly process versus the original kit
2. Keep the cost low

These considerations meant that whatever I did would allow use of the circuit board that comes with the kit and would not touch the most expensive components (larger inductors and capacitors). The resulting mod only adds about $25 in parts to the $299 kit.

I was very relieved that the on axis response and impedance (actual driver measurements with a simulated crossover applied) closely matches the on axis response from the Klippel NFS.

just wonder if the ”small amount of EQ” can be quantified and engineered into the XO so this could become a stand alone V.Good speaker ASR certified.
why they didn’t do it accordingly?

It is possible to tweak the crossover to bring the level down a dB or two where it is elevated. The changes I would recommend include

1. Increase C5 (in the woofer circuit) from 47 uF to 68 uF.
2. Increase R2 from 2 ohms to 3 ohms in the midrange circuit
3. Increase R1 from 5.6 ohms to 6.8 ohms (7 ohms would be fine depending on which is available) in the tweeter circuit.

I'm not sure if that will sound better in all rooms as part of the reason I set the mid and tweeter level where I did was to avoid the upper bass region from standing out and sounding too "tubby"

Upper bass can also be a bit tubby just like the measurements indicate.

The good results don't really surprise me, as the 1970s typical 3-way design with a compact mid dome gives relatively smooth directivity and low distortions in the psychoacoustic most important mid region, I have many such loudspeakers in my vintage loudspeaker collection and similar to this case with a bit of EQ they can still sound competitive today.

I have long been a fan of dome and other unusual mids. Here is a recent picture of my listening rotation.

The 3 way's with the dome mid are an unpublished design because the 3" Tang Band dome mid is no longer available to DIY'ers.

This is the Indium 7 design which was one of my Parts Express Design Team projects and still can be built. It uses the same mid as the HiVi DIY 3.1A (except for a slightly different flange).

 

[Kustomize]

I would like to take a little time to provide more information and address a few questions and comments.

First of all, many thanks to Amir for the review. I put him through a lot for this review. I freely admit that most of the speakers I build can best be thought of as prototypes. Drivers are frequently connected with removable connectors as opposed to solder. I've had a last minute defective driver replacement at a DIY event/competition and it's a lot easier than bringing a soldering iron... Crossover boards are often mounted in such a way to be removable for future tweaking. All of these issue came home to roost for this review as Amir's first comment was that something was rattling inside the cabinet, which turned out to be the crossover board that came loose during shipping. When Amir reattached that and ran his tests, it was apparent that the tweeter had no output, so he had to open them back up, reattach the tweeter wires, and remeasure. I wouldn't have blamed him at all for sliding these down on the Panther scale, but he did the opposite. If I send anything in the future, I will at least make sure the assembly methods are fit for commercial ground transportation.

HiVi deserves all the credit the cabinet design and tuning that protects the woofer and the midrange, enabling distortion to stay under control at high output. They picked a good set of drivers for this kit, which is what initially interested me, as I had previously heard all of the drivers (and worked with the midrange on another project).

I always thought it was odd that they chose to design a crossover with such a rising response. This is straight from the swanspeakers website.
View attachment 81674

I saw an assembled pair for sale on our local craigslist and decided that it would be fun to see if they sounded like the manufacturer's response curve indicated and see what it would take to flatten the response curve. I step through the process on the Midwest Audio Club forum

MAC/DIY HiVi DIY 3.1 Post

I summarized the results on my Sehlin Sound Solutions page. The speakers reviewed include the option 4 "perfectionist option" crossover.



This is certainly true. There are a number of reasons for that, but the name is perhaps a bit misleading. I set out to see if simply tweaking resistors could fix the crossover, but that wound up not to be the case. Although I could bring the mids and highs in balance with the bass, the response was very uneven as shown in options 1-3. For option 4, I constrained myself in a couple of ways:

1. Add no complexity to the assembly process versus the original kit
2. Keep the cost low

These considerations meant that whatever I did would allow use of the circuit board that comes with the kit and would not touch the most expensive components (larger inductors and capacitors). The resulting mod only adds about $25 in parts to the $299 kit.

View attachment 81679

I was very relieved that the on axis response and impedance (actual driver measurements with a simulated crossover applied) closely matches the on axis response from the Klippel NFS.



It is possible to tweak the crossover to bring the level down a dB or two where it is elevated. The changes I would recommend include

1. Increase C5 (in the woofer circuit) from 47 uF to 68 uF.
2. Increase R2 from 2 ohms to 3 ohms in the midrange circuit
3. Increase R1 from 5.6 ohms to 6.8 ohms (7 ohms would be fine depending on which is available) in the tweeter circuit.

View attachment 81685

I'm not sure if that will sound better in all rooms as part of the reason I set the mid and tweeter level where I did was to avoid the upper bass region from standing out and sounding too "tubby"



I have long been a fan of dome and other unusual mids. Here is a recent picture of my listening rotation.

View attachment 81683
The 3 way's with the dome mid are an unpublished design because the 3" Tang Band dome mid is no longer available to DIY'ers.

View attachment 81684

This is the Indium 7 design which was one of my Parts Express Design Team projects and still can be built. It uses the same mid as the HiVi DIY 3.1A (except for a slightly different flange).

I’ve always heard great things about Indium! Comes at a reasonable price too! I wish this could be tested too!