Hifiman HE400i Review (planar headphone)

[BogdanR]

Thanks for this review @amirm . There are a couple of pointers I’ve seen addressed here already, such as on ear placement or the various build variations of these headphones so I won’t dwell on them. I have the no backplate version and it is my main headphone out of many out of my collection.

Anyway, my main point I want to make is that we need good EQ for our transducers, be them headphones or speakers. The “no tone controls for purity“ mantra that has been preached on us by the industry for quite some time makes literally no sense whatsoever, especially considering how subjectively personal music reproduction is for all of us. I’m 53 years old and working in a noisy environment damaged my hearing even with hearing protection being scrupulously used. Coming on top of what happens naturally with aging, it means with no EQ I can’t hear details I KNOW are there in recordings am intimately familiar with. At the very minimum, basic tone controls are needed to bring the sound back to what I subjectively like hearing. I bet good money the response I like measures anything but flat.

In the end, I won’t buy anything which doesn’t have tone controls or the possibility of tailoring the sound of my music the way I like it. It is a deeply personal experience after all, no?

 

[solderdude]

I'll have to let bobbooo work out the likelihood of any of those being the backplate or non-backplate model, and I suppose you'd have to let us know which of those two headphones your distortion measurements come from if we wanted to draw any conclusions.

https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/headphones/measurements/hifiman/he400i/
will give you the answers. The distortion differences are inconsequential. Far below any audible thresholds.

 

[Ron Texas]

Equalizer APO only works with direct sound.

Foobar no longer has a "Direct Sound" option. It's "primary sound driver" or the name of the device often preceded with "Default". These are built in and use WASAPI shared. Some experimentation indicates both work with Equalizer APO.

 

[Moderate Dionysianism]

I meant, a way to set your settings somehow, as adjusting a piano or a violin or guitar...and then play them. Without every single user having to "tune" them.
This idea is an open copyright...a copyleft, if anyone wants to use it later for the benefit of us all.
We wait for your out of the box already equalized headsets.
Hurry !!!!

Ok, I honestly feel super confused reading statements like this. Can you tell me how you factor in the way the recording is mixed and the fact that it already comes to you 'EQed' by the studio engineer?

I tried 'correcting' towards the Harman target and while it was nice on some records, I found many others plain unlistenable. In most of those cases my impression was that I had boosted the frequencies already emphasized in the source material itself.

I listen the most during work, and sometimes I go through 10-20 different releases. I just can't imagine tweaking the EQ for each record...
I assume that @amirm is using beatifully produced reference recordings, but my mood swings can take me from a jazz album to a noisy black metal one, then to some 80s synthwave and so on I just can't imagine how this would work in real life, unless you limit yourself to consuming only 'audiophile-grade' recordings.


Am I missing some basic point here or is it right to say that EQing towards any target curve without analyzing the actual input does not make much sense? Shouldn't 'The Holy Grail of Equalization' be something closer to an auto-tune processor?

 

[digititus]

AutoEQ settings for 2016 Hifiman HE400i

 

[bobbooo]

I'll have to let bobbooo work out the likelihood of any of those being the backplate or non-backplate model, and I suppose you'd have to let us know which of those two headphones your distortion measurements come from if we wanted to draw any conclusions.

The older one (with SMC connector) most likely has backplates, newer one not - I haven't seen any reports of one with an SMC connector and no backplate. The distortion measurements posted above were from that older one. The frequency response from that matches better with the unit measured for this review, suggesting the latter also has backplates. The newer unit measured in 2017 has less distortion than the older one (and less distortion pretty much across the board than the HD800S measured on exactly the same rig, as posted previously).

Newer HE400i from 2017 (no backplate):

So yeah, no distortion issues there.

 

[bobbooo]

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I'm still working on the preference rating, as I'm getting 77 (Oratory got 80 for 2016; I'll digitize his data and see what that gets me).
EDIT: Digitizing his data also gets me 77 (and the 2 are more similar than the HD800S, which Amir’s had a more substantial 10kHz dip).

Did you manage to download the Listen Inc. spreadsheet in the end and calculate the preference ratings using that?

 

[Robbo99999]

https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/headphones/measurements/hifiman/he400i/
will give you the answers. The distortion differences are inconsequential. Far below any audible thresholds.

The older one (with SMC connector) most likely has backplates, newer one not - I haven't seen any reports of one with an SMC connector and no backplate. The distortion measurements posted above were from that older one. The frequency response from that matches better with the unit measured for this review, suggesting the latter also has backplates. The newer unit measured in 2017 has less distortion than the older one (and less distortion pretty much across the board than the HD800S measured on exactly the same rig, as posted previously).

Newer HE400i from 2017 (no backplate):

So yeah, no distortion issues there.

Oh yeah, the newer one has less distortion:
https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/headphones/measurements/hifiman/he400i/
which is where you got the graphs from, and the link solderdude posted. Quite a good omen for the newer HE400i as well as the HE4XX.....I suppose if Amir was to measure a newer HE400i and the HE4XX then that would put all this to bed, but it's probably a bit much to ask to buy two new headphones of a variation of the same model.....albeit the HE4XX is probably the most different and/or promising to be the best of the bunch.....so if you had to narrow it down for one of those variations to be tested I think you'd be wanting him to test the HE4XX here on ASR. HE4XX is only $180 at the moment so not an expensive headphone, or maybe someone could send an HE4XX to Amir for testing.

 

[Cahudson42]

HE4XX is only $180 at the moment so not an expensive headphone, or maybe someone could send an HE4XX to Amir for testing

It was $120 briefly on Drop. Maybe worth waiting until that comes back. Meantime, let's stir the pot with the $220 HE5XX/Deva (wired).. Anyone have one to send in?

 

[solderdude]

Here is the K702:

Don't get too hung up on distortion numbers. Harman tells us it is inconsequential for sound quality. Why worry ?

 

[wasnotwasnotwas]

Here is the K702:

Don't get too hung up on distortion numbers. Harman tells us it is inconsequential for sound quality. Why worry ?

Ah, because we know it is there and it can be measured. Ergo, it is important. No?

 

[DualTriode]

Hello All,

There is conversation about headphone distortion and distortion measurement.

After a few posts there is always someone who chimes in about some level of measured distortion being below audibility.

Most distortion measurement plots and posts are aimed at 2nd and 3rd harmonics. There are a number of AES papers that document that 2nd and 3rd harmonics are largely benign or are masked by the program material.

I am of the opinion that higher harmonics are much more problematic, additionally higher harmonics are not masked by the program material.

If we are focused on 2nd and 3rd harmonics we may be focused on innocent bystanders and not the real offenders.

If we see increased levels of 2nd and 3rd harmonics we should be diligent to keep at it and measure 4Th, 5th and on up as well.

THD less 2nd and 3rd may be a good tool.

Thanks DT

 

[MZKM]

Did you manage to download the Listen Inc. spreadsheet in the end and calculate the preference ratings using that?

Nope. I register, page reloads, go to download and asks to register again.

I’m digitizing the ~30 in the paper, and I’m getting close to the scores in the paper that I digitized (I have done 15 of them thus far). So, that coupled with the fact that I can’t see where I could go wrong, leads me wondering how I am getting a few points off when digitizing Oratory’s HD800S & HE400i...

_____
It’s a little trickier with Amir’s data, as I have to use an interpolated target curve to generate the error curve, whereas Oratory and the paper both give the error curves. @amirm, could you export the error curve for the HE400i and/or HD800S, just so that I can make sure my interpolated curve isn’t causing issues?

 

[Robbo99999]

Here is the K702:

Don't get too hung up on distortion numbers. Harman tells us it is inconsequential for sound quality. Why worry ?

Amir worries, so I worry.....but to be honest during my own listening I find bass boosted HD600 flabby (less resolution) in the bass in contrast to K702 bass boosted (Harman Curve), so I think there is something in this distortion malarky - HD600 is kind of known for it's slight distortion problem in the bass in stunning contrast to the rest of the frequency range in the HD600.....so I think there's something to this distortion malarky.

 

[Robbo99999]

It was $120 briefly on Drop. Maybe worth waiting until that comes back. Meantime, let's stir the pot with the $220 HE5XX/Deva (wired).. Anyone have one to send in?

There's a frequency response for the HE5XX here if you're interested:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/04aie8ax9pokhly/Hifiman HE5XX.pdf?dl=0
Does the HE5XX differ much in driver technology to the HE4XX (HE400i)? If it has a different driver technology then that might be interesting, and also $220 is not insane money for a headphone (generally speaking), so in my book it's good to measure some good bang for the buck headphones. HE5XX looks like quite a messed up frequency response at stock though, so probably wouldn't sound good without EQ.

 

[Robbo99999]

Hello All,

There is conversation about headphone distortion and distortion measurement.

After a few posts there is always someone who chimes in about some level of measured distortion being below audibility.

Most distortion measurement plots and posts are aimed at 2nd and 3rd harmonics. There are a number of AES papers that document that 2nd and 3rd harmonics are largely benign or are masked by the program material.

I am of the opinion that higher harmonics are much more problematic, additionally higher harmonics are not masked by the program material.

If we are focused on 2nd and 3rd harmonics we may be focused on innocent bystanders and not the real offenders.

If we see increased levels of 2nd and 3rd harmonics we should be diligent to keep at it and measure 4Th, 5th and on up as well.

THD less 2nd and 3rd may be a good tool.

Thanks DT

That's an interesting angle, and I don't know enough of the technical side of distortion to disagree with you, but for those that are more in the know, then would be good to see someone discuss this with you.

 

[wasnotwasnotwas]

There's a frequency response for the HE5XX here if you're interested:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/04aie8ax9pokhly/Hifiman HE5XX.pdf?dl=0
Does the HE5XX differ much in driver technology to the HE4XX (HE400i)? If it has a different driver technology then that might be interesting, and also $220 is not insane money for a headphone (generally speaking), so in my book it's good to measure some good bang for the buck headphones. HE5XX looks like quite a messed up frequency response at stock though, so probably wouldn't sound good without EQ.

I think we need to take care here. "probably wouldnt sound good without EQ" really needs a qualification- "probably wouldnt sound good without EQ to someone who's preference is [insert target curve of choice]" .

I guarantee they sound absolutely heaven sent to someone who listens to music through some dogs**t supermarket own brand poorly sealed earbuds.

I place no value on user reviews on sites- but to illustrate my point, I bet a goodly proportion of these folks aren't lying. Whether they have the widest and deepest experience in head-fi is a different story. https://drop.com/buy/drop-hifiman-he5xx/reviews#reviews

Point being, as with electronics that introduce audible (euphonic) distortion, we need to separate "sounding good" from objectively "good".

 

[watchnerd]

I might have to dust these off.

I rarely listened to mine, either.

But the EQ won't help how they make my ears feel too hot after an hour.

 

[wasnotwasnotwas]

I might have to dust these off.

I rarely listened to mine, either.

But the EQ won't help how they make my ears feel too hot after an hour.

A must for any serious head-fier https://www.lightinthebox.com/en/p/...5j9jr4YVCofdK7q3ClffhKbtz7OAicUgaAm-jEALw_wcB

What is the headphone equivalent of cable lifters?

 

[watchnerd]

A must for any serious head-fier https://www.lightinthebox.com/en/p/...5j9jr4YVCofdK7q3ClffhKbtz7OAicUgaAm-jEALw_wcB

What is the headphone equivalent of cable lifters?

How in the world did this ever come to your attention?

I can't imagine Googling "USB ear fans".