Hifiman HE400i Review (planar headphone)

[Robbo99999]

thanks, do you think I would do a good thing to change the pads with those of the K712, or would that be just bullshit? is something you do on headphones, or you risk distorting the headphones too much and all the resulting problems that you might have, perhaps for example. not to end up with equalizations

less advanced in the sense of a "smaller" soundstage? however I would use the eq at this point, hoping to get the same result.

Definitely don't use K712 pads on the K702 - the K712 pads are not angled and you'll ruin the soundstage of the headphone (I know from different pads on my K702). Have a look in the other thread which I linked earlier (your thread), I recommended you some suitable pads there. Hello People, can we please stop cluttering up this HE400i thread with off topic (the established members here should know better) - I'm only going against this for this post as I think it's important that people don't read it and think it's a good idea to use K712 pads on K702, it's not - it would ruin the soundstage & also invalidate any EQ's that are available for the K702. Please no more off topic, please continue discussion in the guy's thread he created:

headphones with better soundstage (from 400-500€ downward)

hi everyone, I'm new here. I'm talking about the discussion linked below. I would ask you this favor, if someone who has already been in the forum for a while, who has been following the whole discussion, could make a list of the headphones analyzed in that thread and report it here. I'm...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Jimbob54]

Don't get the Anniversary Edition, it doesn't have angled pads if I recall correctly. Therefore the Anniversary Edition is likely to have a worse soundstage than the standard K702 and therefore be a worse headphone for gaming.

I think that's the standard K702. It doesn't say anything about 65th Anniversary in there does it......even though I don't speak Italian! Yeah, it's definitely the standard K702, you can't miss the blue accents on the earcups that are on the 65th Anniversary Edition........so you've definitely got the standard K702 in those pics, so that's the one to buy.

EDIT: how did you get it for 63 Euros? That's a very good price! It's a new one right, not used, not 2nd hand.

EDIT #2: tell me over in your own thread (https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/headphones-with-better-soundstage-from-400-500€-downward.35148/ ), as we've probably cluttered up this HE400i review thread with enough off topic since the last posts where we stopped comparing it to the HE400i.

You mean like these that have zero Hifiman content either? ;-) but point taken

 

[Robbo99999]

You mean like these that have zero Hifiman content either? ;-) but point taken

(I had already previously mentioned it here in the EDIT, as I realised we were all getting off topic: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...0i-review-planar-headphone.18544/post-1228313 )

 

[ehabheikal]

Nice, good to see this one reviewed! @amirm , about setting distortion threshold at 40dB, what is your thinking behind choosing 40dB, it seems that 40dB is often below 1% distortion in the frequency response?

I was expecting distortion to look across the frequency range more like the low distortion seen in the bass, but a few issues in distortion further up the frequency range. I'm thinking it's possible that the HE4XX would have less distortion issues than the 400i 2016 version, because the frequency sweep is a bit more "regular" with less of the more extreme dips in the treble. Also I've seen postings of HE4XX distortion being low across the board. Having said this, I have noticed that Amir's measurements for all the headphones he's tested so far seem to be showing somewhat higher distortion than measurements I've seen over on diyaudioheaven and praps some other places.....so it makes me think which ones are the most relevant & why the discrepancies? Could it be explained in equipment differences? Just thinking it through.

I've got an order put in for the Hifiman HE4XX which is the Drop version of the Hifiman HE400i, so I'm hoping it has less distortion than the sample that Amir measured here, but I'm pleased to see the generally positive rating after EQ in the listening tests.

Regarding spaciousness/soundstage, I was/am hoping that the HE4XX has a better soundstage than the HE400i measured here, over on RTINGS I remember seeing the HE4XX having a better soundstage rating the HE400i, and I remember the HE4XX getting one of the best soundstage ratings, higher than AKG K702 for instance (on RTINGS). Thing is, I guess we don't really know how accurate RTings rating of soundstage really is.....they did put Senn 800S right at the top for that parameter, so that marries at least with the 800s reputation & also the listening test by Amir on his glowing take of the soundstage of the 800s.

One thing's for sure, I'm gonna find it interesting when I get my HE4XX when I'm listening for soundstage & distortion....I retain some positivity, I think it'll be better on both fronts than the HE400i measured in this review, but I can't be sure, ha!

I just checked the he4xx was not on rtings, only the 400i.
I do think the 4xx and 400i are nott exactly the same sonically but verrrrrrry close

 

[solderdude]

also there is a slight difference in efficiency... above level matched (and 1/12oct smoothed), below not level matched (so volume control in the same position) and not smoothed

I don't think HE400SE and HE4XX are exactly the same either.

 

[Robbo99999]

I just checked the he4xx was not on rtings, only the 400i.
I do think the 4xx and 400i are nott exactly the same sonically but verrrrrrry close

Yeah, good point. I don't know where I got that from, unless they tested it one time and have removed the test results for some reason, but I probably just made an error. Nowadays I'd expect soundstage potential of HE4XX and HE400i to be virtually identical, as the physical design of the earcups & pads is the same or very similar. (that was an old post of mine you quoted from December 2020)

 

[ManuCV]

I am rediscovering these headphones after using others for quite some time. They sound incredible for the price, much better than I remembered. However I still have the original cable which is awful. Is anyone using the HE400i with a balanced cable? Or not really worth getting a balanced one for these?

 

[Ruben]

Please, if someone can tell me how to adapt this parametric eq from amirm, to UAPP android app that have 6 band eq parametric. I can't find anything about. Thank you vey much!!!! I use Hifiman 400i with Fiio BTR7.

 

[staticV3]

Please, if someone can tell me how to adapt this parametric eq from amirm, to UAPP android app that have 6 band eq parametric. I can't find anything about. Thank you vey much!!!! I use Hifiman 400i with Fiio BTR7.

Is your 400i the 2016 version with suspension strap headband?

 

[Ruben]

Is your 400i the 2016 version with suspension strap headband?
View attachment 320281

I think is 2020 version
And also I observed that UAPP have 10 band parametric EQ, but I don't know how to translate Roon EQ into UAPP EQ format.

 

[Jimbob54]

I think is 2020 version
And also I observed that UAPP have 10 band parametric EQ, but I don't know how to translate Roon EQ into UAPP EQ format.

For uapp, same settings parameters as roon, just use analog bell instead of peak.

 

[Ruben]

For uapp, same settings parameters as roon, just use analog bell instead of peak.

Analog Bell = Digital Bell?

 

[ZööZ]

you can change the filter to analog bell also

 

[staticV3]

I think is 2020 version

Ah yes that's the 2020 version, which requires slightly different EQ if you want Harman.

I've converted both Amir's Roon preset as well as oratory's PEQ settings into Toneboosters EQ presets for UAPP and attached them below.
You can import them using the "Import presets" function in the Toneboosters window:


Please try the oratory preset as well as Amir's settings are not very precise (Black is with Amir's settings):

 

[Ruben]

Ah yes that's the 2020 version, which requires slightly different EQ if you want Harman.

I've converted both Amir's Roon preset as well as oratory's PEQ settings into Toneboosters EQ presets for UAPP and attached them below.
You can import them using the "Import presets" function in the Toneboosters window:
View attachment 320454

Please try the oratory preset as well as Amir's settings are not very precise (Black is with Amir's settings):
View attachment 320455

Waw !!! Thank you very much.
I'll try both and get back

 

[Ruben]

Waw !!! Thank you very much.
I'll try both and get back

I tried these settings for a few hours and I really feel an improvement. My BRT7 is set to High Gain. With Low gain seems unpowered and anemic sound.
I would like to try the parameter settings on the AKG 702 as well. Could you please send me the settings? thank you very much

 

[staticV3]

I would like to try the parameter settings on the AKG 702 as well. Could you please send me the settings? thank you very much

Attached below is oratory's K702 preset converted to UAPP.

BTW, if you want to easily compare the sound between stock and EQed, then here's how to do that:
- UAPP->Settings->Volume->USB Volume control->Software volume control
-open Toneboosters EQ, load the preset, disable Auto gain in the Toneboosters menu, and set the Output Level to zero (you have to pause the music to change it):

-set the software volume to what was previously set as the Output Level in Toneboosters. In this case -5.5dB:

Now you can toggle the Parametric EQ on and off and you will hear the difference in sound, without a change in volume.

 

[Alb_listens]

These are my headphones!
Bought 'em in 2017, first hifi headphones, what a big step forward I made

I find now difficult listening to music on "cheaper" headphones

 

[tidusjc]

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Hifiman HE400i planar magnetic headphone. I purchased this back in 2017 mainly to test headphone amplifiers. The latest version which I am told is different costs US $185 from Amazon including Prime shipping.

The HE400i is quite light and fits quite well on my head:

View attachment 100131

The stock cord is removable which is nice. As is though, it is stiff, rather short and comes with that odd right angle 3.5mm headphone jack. Seems like they assumed people would be using this in a portable application. For my desktop use all of these are aggravations. I have to use a 1/4 inch adapter with it and the right angle cord gets in the way of my controls. The short cord has also pulled the headphone off my head in more than one occasion.

Here is a zoomed picture of the cup with no informational value:

View attachment 100132

The measurements you are about to see are made using a standardized Gras 45C. I searched for any and all measurements I could find online. Alas while a number of them are close to mine, none are using the exact fixture down to coupler and pinna. As you will see, I have confirmed the approximate accuracy of the measurements using Equalization and listening tests. Ultimately headphone measurements are less exact than speakers above a few kilohertz so keep that in mind as you read these tests.

I have calibrated my headphone fixture with 94 dBSPL test tones and decided that I use the same for headphone measurements. However, instead of using 1 kHz tone I have opted for 425 Hz. This seems to better match research data.

I have also made a lot of progress in building a better test suite for the measurements. More updates and changes will be coming but I am starting to feel good about this set.

Hifiman HE400i (2016) Measurements
There is nothing more important than frequency response of the headphone as each is seemingly different and that difference leaves a very distinct character:

View attachment 100133

The ASR preference curve is in sold dashed blue. The red and green are each channel. Matching is pretty good. What is not good is cheating us out of a lot of energy in the all important region of 1 to 3 kHz. Why oh why? This is a common theme among many headphones it seems.

As is usual, bass energy is lower than our target although not as bad as some others I have tested.

What is unusual is all the kinks and noise in the graph. Transfer function of the headphone must be changing in complex ways to create these. Indeed looking at the distortion curve shows us some of this:

View attachment 100136

Someone post that the HE400i is one of the lowest distortion headphones out there. I sure hope not given the above performance! Here is the same data but shown as absolute distortion level rather than percentage:

View attachment 100141

I have picked the 40 dB as my tentative threshold level. As we see bass distortion is quite good but we have peaking around 400 Hz and 1.5 kHz.

Oh, in case some of you have trouble reading the frequency response chart and want a more "speaker like" frequency response, here it is:
View attachment 100138

I use this graph for equalization. Be careful in the troughs toward the end. Do not try to boost those as they are likely cancellations due to reflections inside the cups. We can see this in the group delay graph:

View attachment 100139

Notice how the frequency response errors between 200 and 300 Hz are repeated here.

I made quick fixture to measure impedance (better one to come soon when I get the precision resistors I ordered):

View attachment 100142

Note that the above display is highly zoomed. Otherwise it would look like a flat line which planar magnetic drivers are known for. As zoomed, the peaks are dependent on how the headphone is mounted. On my head they were lower in frequency than on the fixture.

Hifiman HE400i Headphone Listening Tests
As is, the headphone has a rather "open" sound but nowhere near the spatial effects that the Sennheiser HD800S had. The sound is compressed around a grouping close to my ears. Tonality seems rather dull and closed in. So comes out the EQ tools:

View attachment 100145

Wow, what a difference this made. The sound is now impressive with fantastic dynamics and very clean bass. Detail is improved substantially. On my "speaker killer" tracks without EQ, I could hardly hear the deep notes. With EQ on they came to live without the overall tonality sound like "too much bass." Note how I am lifting the frequencies below 50 Hz or so. It is a bit like adding a subwoofer, not boosting the lows in your speaker. With EQ, I now get deep bass performance that simply does not exist in any bookshelf speaker.

Tracks like Artillery Infected Mushroom sound so much more live with EQ that you can't help but want to bob your head and band on the desk in unison!

Then we swing to the other extreme with Kristin Asbjørnsen's wonderful track, Rain, oh Lord:

As for the distortions we saw in the graphs, I could tell you that I hear them but I am not sure at all. The highs sound a bit shrill at moderate levels. Turning the levels up accentuates this. But this could just be me not trying to EQ above 8 kHz. A shelving filter may help there.

Conclusions
This review was prompted by a member suggesting that the Hifiman HE400i can present that interesting spatial quality that the Sennheiser HD800S. Alas, that is not the case. Maybe there is a hint of that but not more. The frequency response of HE400i shows more bass response which is good but also less energy in the important 1 to 3 kHz region. EQ therefore is mandatory to restore proper balance, resolution, deep bass and detail. Once there, this is a new headphone, producing a very enjoyable experience.

Until I did this test and developed the EQ that you saw, I rarely used the HE400i But now, I am actually anxious to listen to it more! I can't get over how "high fi" it sounds with equalization!

I will give the HE400i a pass without equalization. With EQ, I am happy to give the Hifiman HE400i a recommendation.

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Hi Amir,

I just registered an account to ask you this noob question.

your EQ "low shelf" setting for 75hz and 40hz , in term of Equalizer APO (with PEACE GUI) - is it low shelf , low shelf (slope in dB), low shelf (Q as slope) or low shelf (corner frequency, Q as slope) ?

 

[Jimbob54]

Hi Amir,

I just registered an account to ask you this noob question.

your EQ "low shelf" setting for 75hz and 40hz , in term of Equalizer APO (with PEACE GUI) - is it low shelf , low shelf (slope in dB), low shelf (Q as slope) or low shelf (corner frequency, Q as slope) ?

You'll want low shelf q as slope