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Hifiman HE400i Review (planar headphone)

F1308

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You need power so can't be done in passive headphones. Noise cancelling ones can do this and some indeed have (AKG).
I know, thanks. I have a Parrot Zik 1, sounds terrific. I love them.
I meant, a way to set your settings somehow, as adjusting a piano or a violin or guitar...and then play them. Without every single user having to "tune" them.
This idea is an open copyright...a copyleft, if anyone wants to use it later for the benefit of us all.
We wait for your out of the box already equalized headsets.
Hurry !!!!
 

617

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Am I crazy or do the HF irregularities look like diaphragm breakup?

Is there anyway to establish with this fixture whether the irregularity is reflection or breakup? Both are heavily dependent on mic location.

@amirm have you been testing the repeatability of headphone measurements with the headphones being removed and replaced?
 

Matias

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Veeeery nice review! Now we are talking!

What is the ASR preference curve? Based on Harman's preference curve? What are the differences?
 
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Cahudson42

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Great review! Now we really, really, really need to look at double-sided magnet HFM, starting with the $220 Deva (wired) /Drop HE5XX. Is there a difference? Which is 'best'?
I can't wait!
 
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sweetchaos

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I bought these knowing Amir would measure them one day! ;)

I'm currently using PEQ filters by jaakkopasanen (originally measured by Oratory1990), and posted on 2020-11-18.

I've also imported Amir's posted Roon filters into PEACE (PEQ for Windows):
Preamp: -5 dB
Filter 1: ON LS Fc 40 Hz Gain 3.5 dB Q 1.0
Filter 2: ON LS Fc 75 Hz Gain 1.5 dB Q 1.0
Filter 3: ON PK Fc 1900 Hz Gain 5.0 dB Q 2.5
Filter 4: ON PK Fc 5300 Hz Gain 3.0 dB Q 3.0
Filter 5: ON PK Fc 8300 Hz Gain -4.0 dB Q 4.0
I assumed -5dB for preamp. On a side note: Is there a formula to calculate it?

Here's a quick comparison between jaakkopasanen and Amir's PEQ filters.
new.gif
Very nice Amir!
I've listened to both, and they're both worthwhile improvements over original sound.
 
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amirm

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@amirm have you been testing the repeatability of headphone measurements with the headphones being removed and replaced?
Yes, I have developed a very good technique for that. If a headphones difficulty in that regard, I will mention it. I have grown to dislike averaging of multiple measurements as that smears the data (averaging is a form of filtering). So as much as I can, I am trying to get solid and repeatable data.

These larger headphones have been very easy to set up so far. An AKG I tried earlier, not so much.
 

MZKM

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Thanks Amir.

I love the chart with the ASR preference curve scaled flat.
HE400i vs ASR Target.png
HE400i Deviation from ASR Target.png
HE400i Channel Mismatch.png
HE400i EQ Needed-2.png

I'm still working on the preference rating, as I'm getting 77 (Oratory got 80 for 2016; I'll digitize his data and see what that gets me).
EDIT: Digitizing his data also gets me 77 (and the 2 are more similar than the HD800S, which Amir’s had a more substantial 10kHz dip).

EDIT: Using the same 1/12 octave smoothing, I get 80.
 
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The Jniac

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I wonder if it would be possible to create better passive headphones by using crossovers and additional drivers. For example, could a BA driver be used to reduce the 6kHz peak in the HD800 by producing a phase-inverted signal?
 
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amirm

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I assumed -5dB for preamp. On a side note: Is there a formula to calculate it?
Unfortunately not. You can figure out the worst case which is usually the bass amplification. But that overstates the headroom you need especially if you don't play music with a lot of sub bass. Roon has a nice clipping indicator which I use to determine if with the music I am playing, clipping is occurring. With HE400i none of my clips did given the milder bass boost.
 

Matias

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I assumed -5dB for preamp. On a side note: Is there a formula to calculate it?

Equalizer APO calculates how much you have exceeded and you can add negative dBs until it zeroes.

Check out on 13:51 here.
 

sweetchaos

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Equalizer APO calculates how much you have exceeded and you can add negative dBs until it zeroes.

Check out on 13:51 here.
It worked!

#1. jaakkopasanen's PEQ
I took jaakkopasanen's PEQ (from my previous post) and removed the preamp section.
Saved the results as a text file.
Then, I opened the text file into Equalizer APO (as shown in the video).
It showed:
1608340603353.png

The program auto-calculated the 'peak gain' of 6.8dB.
In other words, -6.8dB of preamp needed to bring it back to 0.
The posted jaakkopasanen PEQ says preamp of -6.91dB is needed.
Wow, that's within +-0.1dB of each other.

#2. Amir's PEQ
Same steps as before...
It showed:
1608340778991.png

This means a preamp of -5.3dB is needed for Amir's PEQ filters.

Very nice, thank you for this! :D
 
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phoenixsong

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I think we have the same version! Your findings mostly align with my listening impressions- dug the bass quality, wish it had more sub bass, thought it was just a tad shrill/piercing in some frequencies in the high mids to treble region. I'm thinking the 1-3kHz dip and smaller 300-500Hz dip in the frequency response may have been an attempt to mask the distortion present there
 

YSC

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Really great measurements amirm and kudos for the effort.

I noticed the overall tonality scheme actually tried to be inline with the harman live curve as the hd800s does. Seems most neutral aiming phones out there is targeting that rather than the preference curve?
 

JohnYang1997

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Am I crazy or do the HF irregularities look like diaphragm breakup?

Is there anyway to establish with this fixture whether the irregularity is reflection or breakup? Both are heavily dependent on mic location.

@amirm have you been testing the repeatability of headphone measurements with the headphones being removed and replaced?
You aren't crazy by that's not diaphragm breakup.
It's caused by pinnae and the earcup. That's resonance and the housing. I think Amir can position in such way that represents what he hears better.
To measure high frequency extension of the driver the best way is to use free field mic. This way you can get all the unwanted things out of the way. This is also suggested by Knowles for measuring for hires.
 

JohnYang1997

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GRAS 45CA-10 RA0402 KB50101 Anthropometric Pinna and High-frequency ear simulator 26CS Preampl...jpg
@amirm I would suggest place the headphones a bit further back in this direction to gain some extension and more representative measurements.
Try this on the real human head as well and see how the sound changes.
But I'm 100% sure whether this is already optimized placement or not. Maybe this is the best that you could do. So this is just a suggestion. If it's already done. All good.
 
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JohnYang1997

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-58c77967adeee6ef.jpg
The red and blue can be caused solely by placement where red is certainly more representative than blue. This is a very common issue I see with people doing measurements. Some also do averaging of various position which still ended up with non representative measurement.
 
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