Help me decide a subwoofer for music only and high WAF

[DanielT]

Tip. Try this playlist. In the context of this thread, it has an interesting title:
(if you use Spotify that is)

SVS Subwoofer Test Tracks

Playlist · russellgsp · 82 items · 2.6K saves

open.spotify.com

 

[StefanSweden]

Tip. Try this playlist. In the context of this thread, it has an interesting title:
(if you use Spotify that is)

SVS Subwoofer Test Tracks

Playlist · russellgsp · 82 items · 2.6K saves

open.spotify.com

Just tried the first track... Wtf not sure my neighbour apprechiated that!

Thanks for the playlist.

 

[DanielT]

Just tried the first track... Wtf not sure my neighbour apprechiated that!

Thanks for the playlist.

Undeniably an important factor, neighbors, to consider in the selection and use of subwoofers.

A not-too-far-fetched guess: This person with his home theater system lives out in the countryside, far from the nearest neighbors. It looks more like a sound solution that would be suitable for a commercial movie theater.:

 

[MarkS]

Better for tuning are test tracks playing (1) a high-to-low tone sweep and (2) specific tones. In the sweep through the low bass, you should not hear a rise in volume at some specific tone. If you do, try to pin down its frequency with test tones, then try cutting it with the app. The problem is that (1) the ear is not very good at this and (2) the test tones are usually not finely spaced enough for this to work well.

 

[Spkrdctr]

Im hoping that I will be home alone sometime during the weekend to listen and adjust over a couple of hours. Its hard trying to listen when the kids are playing around the house

I guess I can get it to sound good enough, as of now, but if I know myself good enough I will eventually buy a mic and learn more about that.

Well there you go!

 

[Spkrdctr]

Just tried the first track... Wtf not sure my neighbour apprechiated that!

Thanks for the playlist.

You don't need the volume cranked up to hear the rising and lowering of volume on a sweep. That way your neighbors will not be too upset. Just don't crack the paint on their walls!

 

[DanielT]

A clarification The playlist I put in #161 was just to test how well the subwoofer can pump out bass. Much like you want to accelerate properly with a new car you bought. Test what the gadget you bought is capable of performing.

For fine-tuning of FR via EQ, sweep and measurement microphone apply.

 

[StefanSweden]

Update,

So I decided to move the sub to the other side of the sideboard away from the corner and wow what a difference in sound! Much tighter and cleaner. Did not realize how boomy it was in the corner! Sounds like a different sub.

and it happends that a friend of mine works with sound and is familiar with REW and has offerd to come by and help me messure my sound

 

[radix]

Update,

So I decided to move the sub to the other side of the sideboard away from the corner and wow what a difference in sound! Much tighter and cleaner. Did not realize how boomy it was in the corner! Sounds like a different sub.

and it happends that a friend of mine works with sound and is familiar with REW and has offerd to come by and help me messure my sound

Excellent. When I was doing my subs, I got a long RCA cord and just moved it around the living room a bunch and did 10-200 Hz sweeps in REW to see how it looked. You can also get wireless transceivers that work OK if you have something can can delay your mains (like a minidsp).

 

[Willem]

Update,

So I decided to move the sub to the other side of the sideboard away from the corner and wow what a difference in sound! Much tighter and cleaner. Did not realize how boomy it was in the corner! Sounds like a different sub.

and it happends that a friend of mine works with sound and is familiar with REW and has offerd to come by and help me messure my sound

I am not surprised that moving the sub reduced the boominess. Such corner locations are rarely feasible without serious dsp room eq. In any event, you should really measure the actual in-room response. Without that, you are groping in the dark. The beauty of this sub is precisely that you have a few filters to reduce the worst peaks (don't bother with the dips). The limitation of such filters is that they will reduce the peaks in only one listening location. I am afraid you will need more than one sub for a flat response over a wider listening area.
By the way, I fully understand that your wife insisted on the esthetics. Your interior exudes elegant Scandinavian style. For me the most attractive audio system is an invisible one. These days that is possible with electronics, but obviously not with speakers.

 

[StefanSweden]

I am not surprised that moving the sub reduced the boominess. Such corner locations are rarely feasible without serious dsp room eq. In any event, you should really measure the actual in-room response. Without that, you are groping in the dark. The beauty of this sub is precisely that you have a few filters to reduce the worst peaks (don't bother with the dips). The limitation of such filters is that they will reduce the peaks in only one listening location. I am afraid you will need more than one sub for a flat response over a wider listening area.
By the way, I fully understand that your wife insisted on the esthetics. Your interior exudes elegant Scandinavian style. For me the most attractive audio system is an invisible one. These days that is possible with electronics, but obviously not with speakers.

Sorry for late reply - I missed your post! And thank you for your kind words about our interior

I have not yet bought a mic to measure the in-room response, but thats next. It is still in the same place almost under the stair case and I suspect much "sound" disapears up to the second floor as the bass is way heavier up there compared to our living room. I will try to move it around and mess with the PEQ when I can actually see how it sounds ... that was a wierd sentence

 

[olieb]

when I can actually see how it sounds ...

For that it might not be necessary to by a mic. In low frequency many phone mics are pretty good. And you might find a spectrum analyser app that works with sufficient resolution.
I just did a quick and dirty test for the FR of an homepod with an old iphone7 in my kitchen.
1. A sweep with Umik (REW) Hanning window
2. The live view of periodic white noise (from generator in REW: 32k sequence and custom filtered BU2, 20-1000Hz) in iphone app "Audio Spectrum" from Pawel Krzywdzinski (you have to make an investment of 99ct) with Window set to 65536 and Hanning.
3. Then the overlay of both.

That should be close enough to get quite a good view of bass performance.
For Android there might be similar apps.
It's fun to see the FR change in real time when moving the phone around in the room. White noise above 1kHz gets rather nasty though.

 

[Willem]

So did you ultimately measure the sub's output for best PEQ filter selection? From your description of sonic differences at different locations for the sub it is obvious that you are dealing with quite serious room modes that generate peaks and dips. Dealing with those is in my view the best and most cost effective upgrade that you can buy (i.e. buying a Umik-1 and using it with REW). Personally my next move would be a second subwoofer for a rather smoother low frequency sound across a wider listening area (it does not have to be identical). You can use the filter options on the SVS sub(s), but with two subwoofers it pays to use the free Multi Sub Optimizer software for a smooth response across an even wider listening area. Allowing MSO only three filters per sub is a bit limiting, but you will still benefit compared to using filters generated by REW. The only downside is that MSO requires some patience and effort. I am not sure how technical and patient you are, of course.

 

[dped90]

My big problem is that my otherwise wonderful custom built speakers only go down to 70Hz. So, which if any of these subs would make the audio sound the least colored or incoherent with having to cross the high up?

 

[ZolaIII]

I am not surprised that moving the sub reduced the boominess. Such corner locations are rarely feasible without serious dsp room eq. In any event, you should really measure the actual in-room response. Without that, you are groping in the dark. The beauty of this sub is precisely that you have a few filters to reduce the worst peaks (don't bother with the dips). The limitation of such filters is that they will reduce the peaks in only one listening location. I am afraid you will need more than one sub for a flat response over a wider listening area.
By the way, I fully understand that your wife insisted on the esthetics. Your interior exudes elegant Scandinavian style. For me the most attractive audio system is an invisible one. These days that is possible with electronics, but obviously not with speakers.

There first primary peaks and deaps are constant. They are room length determined only intensity varies with position. To anulate first peak by position sub neads to be about 1m straight in the centre before you which is possible in near field.

 

[dlaloum]

My big problem is that my otherwise wonderful custom built speakers only go down to 70Hz. So, which if any of these subs would make the audio sound the least colored or incoherent with having to cross the high up?

Cheap and cheerful but good performance and decent appearance... a Gallo TR1/2/3 sub ... used.

New - I would look at the Kef KC series with the opposed vibration cancellling drivers.

As a generic comment, and reflecting my own bias potentially, for music I would look for a sealed rather than a ported design, which for similar size, will typically have lower SPL's low down, but a longer tail / more gradual drop off - often resulting in digging deeper into the low frequencies, but at lower SPL's - and they frequently do quite well in terms of the higher bass frequencies and low distortion within that range.... (huge generalisations I know... but that is what I would pick as my starting point to create a shortlist)

 

[ZolaIII]

In order that bass should not be boomy but have impact you need sub's crossed very smooth (Butterwort) at 110~130 Hz so that there is no bust or bumps in crossover or over it bass region and so that sub's have small boost from 40~45 to 30 Hz (and under that if such) region. Carefully calibrated in true 2.2 setup (each sub ona chenel) and with equal loudness normalisation applied. In order to retain good time domain those should be 10" (or area of such) and how low would they go is also space and position determined. Preferably sealed box one's. You can't have that without sub's and it's considerable hustle with serious DSP use to have it with sub's.

 

[dped90]

To solve my problem, what about a pair of these? https://www.rythmikaudio.com/F12SE.html

If yes, since my sources are mostly uncompressed WAV files of CD track rips (no vinyl or tape), will room correcting software allow the best crossing between my very bass shy main speakers and these subs-even though I only have a two channel DAC, with balanced and unbalanced outputs to feed my main amp and the plate amps of these subs? https://www.kitsunehifi.com/product/holo-audio-may-dac/

 

[ZolaIII]

@dped90 in short no. With 4 chenel DSP (such as MiniDSP Flex) and lot of work yes.
Edit: and still you would have to use equal loudness compensation from something else.

 

[morillon]

two enclosed heavily linearized individually by dsp, 10 inches or more...
practically accept a small hole in the crossing more than the opposite especially in your case... ;-)
and diy can be a nice option there are so many thing available now... ;-)
(for music acoustic requirements etc. even if set back on the level side, pressing on 20/25-45hz is often useful ;-) )