I replaced my AVR with a Flex HT, but don't recommend it.

[Tre2023]

Atmos/DD+ is lossy and will work over ARC. Lossless multichannel PCM, Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio require eARC at both ends when connecting devices capable of outputting those signals directly to a TV. The Flex will only accept the PCM signals.

 

[darth]

Has anyone tried using a windows PC as the source? For eg, something like

PC (with Dolby Access / Dolby Atmos for home theater selected in settings) --> Nvidia (HDMI) ---> TV --> eARC --> miniDSP

I am guessing this won't work since in this case it is no longer PCM being sent and miniDSP will not work, and one has to stick with an AVR or something else.

I have a similar setup but instead with TV ---> optical ---> logitech Z906 (which can decode Dolby digital). What I noticed was, the only way this setup worked was setting to bitstream input and passthrough on my LG TV audio/hdmi settings. If I switched it to PCM, then Dolby Atmos for Home theater would vanish from windows settings.


View attachment 419501

One thing now I can confirm that a PC connected via HDMI via TV eARC does not get the option to enable Dolby Atmos Home Theater. The option in the picture above no longer shows up. So via PC/HDMI things are limited to 7.1. My prior approach of connecting the Logitech Z906 via TV optical directly still allows Dolby Atmos Home Theater.

 

[Tre2023]

Things will only be limited when Dolby decoding and processing is not available at the receiving end.

If an AVP/AVR supporting Dolby is at the receiving end, “Dolby Atmos For Home Theater” can be selected for output and the signal sent over eARC using an LG TV if the appropriate settings are made. The HDMI input port must be set to bitstream, Digital Audio Output setting must be set to Passthrough and eARC support must be turned ON.

A device using the Microsoft Dolby Access app for Dolby signal output using the “Dolby Atmos For Home theater” setting may not necessarily support Uncompressed PCM 7.1 output and one will have to settle for PCM 2.0 output.

 

[masterhw]

Glad the Apple TV 4K pairs well with the HT/HTx as a Dolby decoding source, for which there are few good options. The ATV 4K is missing some "nice to haves" though that I am optimistic we'll see alternatives for in 2025.

1. No lossless surround codec support. Lack of Dolby TrueHD & DTS HD MA support in mainstream streamers drives me crazy, I cannot imagine pursuing SINAD to this extent (which is my primary interest in this device) only to pair it with lossy audio. I am actually surprised this doesn't come up more.
2. No Dolby Digital Plus/Atmos encoded Dynamic Range Compression (DRC) options, which I find highly useful for late-night viewing or challenging mixes (Nolan movies).

I am not optimistic Apple will address these, though I will be first in line if they do. There is a low but increasing number of AndroidTV based devices, similar to Google's Chromecasts, that are now capable of Dolby/DTS decoding and have full lossless support. The Dune/Homatics Box R 4K Plus (mouthful) seems to be leading the pack, but this generation of devices seem particularly challenged by software bugs and is expected to be succeeded in 2025 by an Amlogic S905X5M-based box. Anyway, this Dune/Homatics device just got an update that enables the aforementioned DRC adjustments, which is the first I've seen of this.

Thus my 2025 wishlist is an upgraded miniDSP Flex HT/HTx DSP and an AndroidTV box supporting every AV codec under the sun with fully featured LPCM output. I think we're very close on both of these things. The fruition of both of these, and the fact that basically every mid-high end TV now comes with 7.1 LPCM passthrough, should hopefully reduce some of the biggest caveats for a setup of this type. SOTA performance for midrange AVR money and the only functional shortcoming being lack of Atmos height support would be an incredible achievement, even if it is only truly appreciated by a relatively small group of users on ASR and AVSforum.

 

[Mort]

This is stated in the first post but miniDSP actually say on their website that all products have a one year warranty:

What is the warranty?

miniDSP Ltd warrants all our products to be free from defects in materials and workmanship for a period of one year from the invoice date. Our warranty terms do not cover failure of the product due to an external trigger, misuse, servicing, or us...

support.minidsp.com

Is this info. known to be out of date?

They do, and I corrected the OP, thank you. They actually have a good track record based on a few posts I've read but one does have to pay the international shipping fees one-way, so there is some cost for repairs.

 

[jaakkopetteri]

No Dolby Digital Plus/Atmos encoded Dynamic Range Compression (DRC) options, which I find highly useful for late-night viewing or challenging mixes (Nolan movies).

It might not be DDP/Atmos encoded, but the ATV 4K does have dynamic compression. It's really steep though - I've asked Apple to add a less compressed option but it's not like they would listen.

Isn't LPCM converted from TrueHD/DTS-MA lossless?

 

[masterhw]

It might not be DDP/Atmos encoded, but the ATV 4K does have dynamic compression. It's really steep though - I've asked Apple to add a less compressed option but it's not like they would listen.

Isn't LPCM converted from TrueHD/DTS-MA lossless?

Right, more devices now are offering some type of dialogue boost or range compression but I don't have a lot of confidence they're implementing it in a way that is ideal for fidelity. Basically the only good type of range compression is when done at the mix level, which is what the Dolby metadata is for. This is why it is important that the setting exists and is offered to the user.

Re: TrueHD/DTS HD MA, the Apple TV 4K does not support them, and thus can't output them to the required LPCM. Yes the LPCM output itself is uncompressed full quality, but it is being fed by a codec source that could be (and in most cases is) lossy, and thus the bottleneck is here. My Google TV Streamer is this way too, I cannot play BluRay movies/music in their original quality. Drives me crazy when my hardware is fully capable/licensed but the software is artificially locked.

 

[darth]

I am not optimistic Apple will address these, though I will be first in line if they do. There is a low but increasing number of AndroidTV based devices, similar to Google's Chromecasts, that are now capable of Dolby/DTS decoding and have full lossless support.

Google also backed away from what they initially said would support

Google TV Streamer update just dashed the hopes of audiophiles

A new update has rolled out for the Google TV Streamer. The update has removed two of the listed detected audio formats.

www.androidauthority.com

 

[Markg]

My holiday project and present to myself was to replace a Denon x4800h with a MiniDSP Flex HT system for 5.2 home theater. I had a blast doing this project and I’m sticking with the Flex HT. I like the MiniDSP tools much more and I like managing and tinkering with the system.

Should you replace your AVR with the HT Flex? Probably not. Although higher, it’s likely that the sonic/SINAD benefits are in the inaudible range. The Flex HT system probably more expensive, more complex, has more remotes, and lacks features compared to a good mid-range AVR. You are replacing one big box with several smaller boxes. MiniDSP accepts no returns.

Still interested? Here’s what I learned and did.

Despite being called a 'Multichannel Home Theater Processor', the Flex HT needs help to function as an AVR. The issue is that the Flex HT(x) system can only handle surround sound that is license-free, meaning it cannot decode any licensed compression formats like Dolby. To use the Flex HT as an AVR, licensed decoding must be done by a by another device (like an upstream video streamer) and then output in the unlicensed 'Uncompressed Multichannel LPCM' format via eARC to the Flex HT. (Uncompressed Multichannel LPCM can only be transmitted via eARC. )

In practice the above means the $600 HT requires two additional specialty devices (in addition to an external amplifier), raising the total cost another $400

• A uncompressed multichannel LPCM video streaming source. Not much choice here. The ($149) Apple TV 4k video streamer is the only assured solution for Netflix, Hulu, Max etc... No other streamer works at the moment. Note that newer console gaming devices can also do uncompressed multichannel LPCM for many games and some better DVD/Bluray players also output uncompressed multichannel LPCM. It's just the video streamers that are behind although someone thinks the new Amazon Fire 4k might also work. Confusingly all TVs and streamers do 2 channels of uncompressed LPCM, which leads some people to think it will work multichannel, but it won't. Just get the Apple 4k.
• An eARC splitter. This is a misunderstood and critical device. It doesn’t change the audio or do any decoding for the system. It’s just an active splitter (or switch) that splits the source HDMI (e.g. Apple TV 4k) into two: one 4k HDMI video to the TV display and one eARC HDMI audio to the Flex HT(x). HD Fury devices (cheapest is $249) are recommended but there are cheaper alternatives.

Setup and configuration

Once you have your devices, the routing is simple. Split the video source with your eARC splitter and route one cable to the TV and one to the Flex HT. Use good cables, eARC can be finicky.

View attachment 417821
Some tips I can share

• The Apple TV 4k remote can learn 'mute' and 'volume' from the Flex HT, but not ‘preset’ or ‘source’ so you are still likely to use two remotes plus your TV remote. Apparently the minidsp remote codes in the old Logitech Harmony system work if you have one.
• The MiniDSP console software only runs on a computer, something I didn't have in my home theater room. At first, I used a very long cable so I could use a laptop comfortably away from thescreen. Later, I bought a used i3 minicomputer and connected to it with remote control software. That way I can connect to it on my phone as well.
• Down/Up mixing yourself – I had to create a preset on the MiniDSP for up-mixing older 2ch video sources to have a center channel if the dialog isn’t clear enough in stereo. I also created a 5.1 upmix for 2ch games and live sports events.
• If you need a video input switch, the HD Fury VRROOM can be purchased for $550 (used about $425) and it works well, but adds another remote and app.

I'm trying to understand this: I also have the Denon AR-4800X but paid for the DL and DLBC. Are you suggesting that the outcome of your sound is better, to your ears, than using the Denon and Dirac? Please note I only do 2.2 channel.

 

[Mort]

I'm trying to understand this: I also have the Denon AR-4800X but paid for the DL and DLBC. Are you suggesting that the outcome of your sound is better, to your ears, than using the Denon and Dirac? Please note I only do 2.2 channel.

I'm definitely not saying that.

 

[Markg]

Curious about this. Last year i switched my family room AVR to stereo and have been enjoying it this way.
I watch & listen to such a variety of channels/sources that it became annoying hearing it click(onkyo) from format to format. Also sometimes auto didnt select my desired format so i would be paranoid about that and always be getting out of my seat to verify what setting it was on.
My room & main's are setup allowing a large soundstage/image that does not leave me missing the multi. Ditching the center speaker and AVR that both rest on a wide "tv" cabinet could allow me to trade all three for a small/shallow shelf to hold the MiniDSP & a ClassD amp. Then i could tune with more precision like i do in the 2.X music room.




How about for those who are using an AVR with a 2.X setup that dont require all the multichannel encoding ?


For some users with multiple subwoofers it is very beneficial to be able to independantly control the delay of each relative to the mains.
Watch the videos linked here for more info:

Best approach to EQing and Dirac DSP?

This will likely not be sufficient, as the MiniDSP does not show true peak volume but RMS volume only. There is a high risk of clipping when you are close to 0dBFS. Better attenuate the master volume by 9dB, as 9dB AFAIK is the max. boost Dirac applied in its MiniDSP implementation. I asked...

www.audiosciencereview.com

But sure, AVR's arnt so bad if you have one or no sub.


No.

The Denon 4800 has 4 independent sub outputs so I'm not sure why that's not better?

 

[Mort]

This thread really isn't about whether Denon is better. I did switch from mine happily.

 

[kadajawi]

I have done the same and am very happy with my setup, however yeah, uncomplicated it isn't. I'd say it's for the discerning audiophile that a) knows his way around REW and b) has a pretty high end setup, where the disadvantages of an AVR could show.

There IS a way to get MCH PCM with some other streamers... Fire TV, Shield TV, ... however only when using Kodi. If you want to stream Netflix, you need to use Netflix via Kodi. Which isn't for the faint hearted, and depending on your streamer (and luck?) you will lose 4K, perhaps even dropping below HD. It will also vary from streaming service to streaming service and some may not work at all. On the positive side, using Kodi you get to pick which exact stream you want to watch, so you can see and select which bitrate you want. If it plays.

IMHO this is more of an academic exercise, just buy an Apple TV 4K and see it as a nice upgrade to your TV.

While I do have an HD Fury Arcana, it is to upgrade my Samsung TV with Dolby Vision. The MiniDSP is directly connected to the TV (eARC) and it works flawless. You will only need the HD Fury or similar if your TV doesn't have HDMI 2.1 / eARC support, as that's required to transmit MCH PCM.

Why would you do that? The Denon x4800h is not so bad and can achieve great sound if calibrated correctly, such as using A1 Nexus or Neuron script. You could just use the X4800H in a 5.1 setup.

I've added an external 4-channel Buckeye Amp (Hypex) to my X4800H and took some time to calibrate it using A1 EVO Nexus, and now I'm more than happy with the results.

Betting on an HT solution from a company that is very new to HT is never a good choice.

SINAD, higher quality, ... I'm using a Benchmark AHB2, going into Focal Diablo Utopia Colour Evo for the front channels. Basically, I wanted to exclude anything in the path that could lower the sound quality. Also, having an Apple TV 4K is nice anyway and the MiniDSP is cheaper than the Denon. And the MiniDSP is more flexible in terms of having control over the DSP. The Denon also has a DSP, but you more or less need to trust the automatic setup. Want to do something different? Good luck. It's a much smaller box too (and I wouldn't want to use the integrated power amp stages anyway, I'd be using the Denon as a pure AVP. Now if the Marantz Cinema 40 had a much better pre-amp stage...).

Only issue is that I now need to add a phono preamp with digital outputs. Otherwise I couldn't be happier. Oh, one more thing: The remote is terrible. Ok, I lost it, that's not the fault of the remote, but somehow, the remote codes are too close to each other, so sometimes pressing up means down, etc. Also, it seems like they use the same codes for multiple MiniDSP products, so if you have them, you're a bit screwed.

 

[rirelien]

Oh, one more thing: The remote is terrible. Ok, I lost it, that's not the fault of the remote, but somehow, the remote codes are too close to each other, so sometimes pressing up means down, etc. Also, it seems like they use the same codes for multiple MiniDSP products, so if you have them, you're a bit screwed.

Might not work for you, but in my setup I use the Apple TV remote for volume, which sends HDMI CEC commands to control the MiniDSP. This is the biggest use I would have for the MiniDSP remote. I switch on/off/change inputs mostly just using the knob on the device itself (because I need to be there anyway to turn on/off an active speaker nearby.)

 

[kadajawi]

Might not work for you, but in my setup I use the Apple TV remote for volume, which sends HDMI CEC commands to control the MiniDSP. This is the biggest use I would have for the MiniDSP remote. I switch on/off/change inputs mostly just using the knob on the device itself (because I need to be there anyway to turn on/off an active speaker nearby.)

For some odd reason, it doesn't work that way. The Apple TV is connected to a HDFury Arcana which is connected to my Samsung S95C. From there I use the eARC out to the MiniDSP. If I use the ATV remote, my Samsung TV understands, ah, he wants to change the volume, shows me that the volume is changing, but doesn't give any information to the MiniDSP. If I change the volume of the TV itself, i.e. with the TV remote, it looks the same way on the TV, but the MiniDSP is also getting the signal. So what I have done is to program the ATV remote to send the TV the volume changing signal via infrared. That works, until the remote control crashes and I have to reboot the remote control.

I should probably program it with the MiniDSP remote codes so I can use volume control for music listening too, but alas I have lost that remote control. Anyway, I should be receiving my Unfolded Circle Remote Three soon-ish, which should fix all of my issues.

 

[Mort]

I was able to get the Apply TV remote to memorize the MiniDSP volume up and down, and mute. Bypass the whole CEC thing.

 

[Sharok]

Would you please teach me how use harmony companion remote with flex HTx (standby and volume)?
It seems like eARC doesn’t need any setup in the Flex htx.
Do you use remote learning for the commands?

 

[Mort]

Did this help?

 

[Sharok]

Did this help?

Appreciate it.