Hedd Type 20 vs KH310

[dfuller]

Moving to one of the two, not sure which. I was on the phone with Vintage King yesterday and their rep said the Hedds were basically "Adam, but better". We know the KH310 is excellent in basically all respects (save maybe for high level bottom octave distortion), but... what do we know about the Hedds?
So far as I can tell, here's what I've narrowed down
Pluses:
- Low end extension is quite good if the S&R review of the Type 30 is anything to go by (F6 of 33Hz)
- Truly goofy amounts of power (3x300W ICEPower Class D)
- Easy DSP integration with subs down the road
- Sealed or bass reflex loading
Minuses:
- I've never used an AMT I've liked, but this may be more my general dislike of the Adams I've used than AMTs themselves
- smaller woofer so potentially worse distortion at a given level when operated as sealed
- frequency response is not nearly so flat as the 310 (at least, if the S&R review of the Type 30 is anything to go by)
- additional AD/DA and DSP latency
Don't knows:
- Distortion performance (maybe better ported, maybe not?)
- Directivity behavior (waveguide, but not anywhere near as large as the one on the KH310)
- speaker hiss (probably minimal at most, but...)

 

[Zvu]

There is no AD/DA in Hedd monitors. They are active analog, but throw in a Hedd Linearizer and now you have digital input and aditional dsp help that flattens the response.

 

[richard12511]

I'd go for the KH310 mainly because we have full data on that speaker and we know 100% that it's a fantastic speaker. The Hedd might be as good, but seems like more of a gamble.

 

[abdo123]

I don't think the KH310 leaves anything to be desired.

 

[dfuller]

There is no AD/DA in Hedd monotors. They are active analog, but throw in a Hedd Linearizer and now you have digital input and aditional dsp help that flattens the response.

You sure? The marketing blurb reads as though it uses DSP crossovers in the Mk2s.

I'd go for the KH310 mainly because we have full data on that speaker and we know 100% that it's a fantastic speaker. The Hedd might be as good, but seems like more of a gamble.

Yeah, that's my first inclination as well - plus the dome midrange is insanely good (and frankly almost all of the soft dome mids seem to be insanely good).

I don't think the KH310 leaves anything to be desired.

All it really doesn't do well is high SPL sub-bass (i.e. below 40hz) content, i.e. it's above 100% distortion. But that's 96dB anechoic for a single speaker, so that translates to ~105dB for a pair in-room, which is far louder than I normally listen.

 

[MarsianC#]

Based on S&R's reviews for Type 30 and KH310 I would always go for Neumann. Maybe Hedd's MkII are way better.... maybe not.
Would you like to use Hedd's AES in (MkII only!)?

Edit: ah MkII is settled then. As said, MkI's do not use DSPs.
What is your usecase? Do you need SPL in bass?

 

[dfuller]

Based on S&R's reviews for Type 30 and KH310 I would always go for Neumann. Maybe Hedd's MkII are way better.... maybe not.
Would you like to use Hedd's AES in (MkII only!)?

Edit: ah MkII is settled then. As said, MkI's do not use DSPs.
What is your usecase? Do you need SPL in bass?

Nearfield monitoring, about 4.5 feet away. I don't need massive spl, but low distortion is always appreciated. As for AES, I have the capability via my hdspe interface card but I don't strictly speaking need it.

 

[MarsianC#]

Nearfield monitoring, about 4.5 feet away.

I had KH310 in for testing, treated room, same listening distance. NO, I repeat, NO troubles regarding spl in bass. Zero hiss too.
In my new room, treated too, I need my Event Opal's power for sure

 

[q3cpma]

Maybe I'm talking to the wind, but why would you chose a manufacturer that doesn't show its measurements (i.e. either purposedly hides them or doesn't have the resources to make them) when there's competition that does so with great accuracy?

And the already linked S&R's measurement of the Type 30 is quite bad.

 

[voodooless]

Maybe I'm talking to the wind, but why would you chose a manufacturer that doesn't show its measurements (i.e. either purposedly hides them or doesn't have the resources to make them) when there's competition that does so with great accuracy?

They are te be found in the manual, and they show a picture of an anechoic chamber right on top of the site.. could be stock photo of course.

There isn’t a lot of detail though and no off-axis data.

 

[abdo123]

All it really doesn't do well is high SPL sub-bass (i.e. below 40hz) content, i.e. it's above 100% distortion. But that's 96dB anechoic for a single speaker, so that translates to ~105dB for a pair in-room, which is far louder than I normally listen.

you should use a subwoofer for subbass anyway, i never take full range speakers seriously.

Even if the harmonic distortion is okay, intermodulation distortion would be insane. one driver should not do 20 Hz and 800 Hz at the same time.

 

[MarsianC#]

one driver should not do 20 Hz and 800 Hz at the same time

It won't have to in a 3-way design

 

[abdo123]

It won't have to in a 3-way design

Wow, I'm impressed by how incredibly low the largest driver is crossed at. it's almost a subwoofer + 2-way design.

meh, i would still go for a subwoofer because the because where the speaker should go in a room (for stereo listening or multichannel) is absolutely terrible for sub-bass reproduction.

 

[Zvu]

You sure? The marketing blurb reads as though it uses DSP crossovers in the Mk2s.
View attachment 131931
.

I'm sure for MK1. Didn't know you are after MK2. I know nothing about them. Thanks for the info.

Anyway, until @amirm or @hardisj measure HEDD Type 20mk2, safest way would be to go for KH310 if you like what you see in measurements.

 

[mononoaware]

There is no AD/DA in Hedd monitors. They are active analog, but throw in a Hedd Linearizer and now you have digital input and aditional dsp help that flattens the response.

One of the changes they made with Type 20 MK2 is they built-in the HEDD Linearizer inside the monitor (there should be a switch for it on the back).
I assume this therefore required the DSP - AD/DA conversion.

 

[mononoaware]

- Truly goofy amounts of power (3x300W ICEPower Class D)

I recall another user mentioning the HEDD using 300w for the AMT tweeter produced more hiss in near-field than a comparable (AMT) model with less power.
Keep in mind the Adam Audio F7 is apparently a golden example of minimal tweeter hiss.
Also The Adam Audio T5V has 29.7dB self-noise (HEDD Type 30 = 30dB) and I experience zero hiss at listening position.
(You may also need to consider if any self noise is also coming from the woofer)

Quote:

For example, the ADAM F7 has 15dB (among the best in the list) and the HEDD Type30 has 30dB, two products I was deeply involved with, at the same listening distance, say pretty close like 1m or 1.5m, Type 30 has noticable hiss in a quiet room where F7 has none. But Type30 has some 20dB more max SPL on the tweeter (300Watts tweeter amp).

Most likely they were able to source X number of those (300w) amplifiers for low cost per unit, and the savings for finding Y number of less powerful amplifier just for the tweeter would have cost them a similar amount.
So they just went decided on 300w for tweeter which would also give them more than enough headroom.

I assume the Type 20 is intended to perform near-field and also be capable mid-field if required.
(Measurements still needed)

 

[YSC]

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/hedd-type-20-monitors.7736/page-2

from the SOS measurement here it seems the deviation is more than what they've put on their publications, although still pretty flat and nice but not exactly impressive.

 

[KSTR]

Most likely they were able to source X number of those (300w) amplifiers for low cost per unit, and the savings for finding Y number of less powerful amplifier just for the tweeter would have cost them a similar amount.
So they just went decided on 300w for tweeter which would also give them more than enough headroom.

IcePower 300W modular system does not allow for anything else than 300W ;-)
Btw, 300W on a tweeter (with ~15W thermal rating) in a studio monitor is not overkill when you have to deal with totally uncompressed raw material.

 

[mononoaware]

IcePower 300W modular system does not allow for anything else than 300W ;-)

Thank you for the information. So in that case it is a must.

Btw, 300W on a tweeter (with ~15W thermal rating) in a studio monitor is not overkill when you have to deal with totally uncompressed raw material.

I notice though Adam Audio S series (in this case 3-way S3V) approach seems to be using 50w Class A/B for the AMT tweeter, which they must conclude meets its requirements.

I just assume Adam Audio sells many more unit's, so they can pick and choose specific components and bear the cost of design/implementation etc.

 

[KSTR]

@mononoaware, I can't comment on new S series, but in the SX series the 50W-A/B on the tweeter was designed because the original IcePower ASP amplifier module was not satisfactory for tweeter usage. The A/B amp is form-factor and connection compatible, though. An A/B amp produces much more heat and with the restricted heatsinking it was decided to make it half-bridge, so only 1/4th of the power. 50W still is plenty on a tweeter with high efficiency like an AMT.