HD58X frequency response investigation

[thomasjast]

Compared to my previous
-Sony MDR-V6, 7506
-Grado SR80i
-ATH M50x
they sound really mind-rangey and have quite flat treble. After listening to a while you get used to it and it's non-fatiguing and smooth, but switching between all of those and the Senns 58X is quite jarring.

 

[solderdude]

they sound really mind-rangey and have quite flat treble. After listening to a while you get used to it and it's non-fatiguing and smooth, but switching between all of those and the Senns 58X is quite jarring.

Yep, the brain needs to get used to the presentation. In comparison the HD58X is indeed midrangy.
In reality it is the most neutral one. The brain needs some time to adjust. Switch to the other ones and their flaws (emphasis) is obvious.

 

[MRC01]

Over hours & years of critical listening I've found an asymmetry: consider A and B, where A is slightly more neutral/clean/transparent.
Listen to A long enough to get used to it, then switch to B. The initial reaction is "What's wrong!?"
Listen to B long enough to get used to it, then switch to A. The initial reaction is "What changed?"
Objectively, the difference is the same only reversed. But subjectively, I find the first more jarring than the second. Getting worse seems more noticeable than getting better.

 

[thomasjast]

Yep, the brain needs to get used to the presentation. In comparison the HD58X is indeed midrangy.
In reality it is the most neutral one. The brain needs some time to adjust. Switch to the other ones and their flaws (emphasis) is obvious.

Yes, exactly. I've only ever found two headphones too bright in my life, and that's the Beyer 990 and 770 250ohm (the 80ohm was good). Generally, that's the sound I prefer, so "neutral" will seem weird for a while.

I'm still very happy with the 58X. They don't touch my ears at all when they're on, so they naturally win for comfort vs. nearly everything.

 

[MRC01]

Yes, exactly. I've only ever found two headphones too bright in my life, and that's the Beyer 990 and 770 250ohm (the 80ohm was good). Generally, that's the sound I prefer, so "neutral" will seem weird for a while.
...

I'm the opposite. Almost every headphone I've used sounds artificially bright, definitely brighter than natural acoustic sounds or good speakers. Everyone has a different, unique HRTF and the variances are significant. It's a lot easier to agree on loudspeakers than headphones.

 

[solderdude]

Remember, the clamping force of the HD58X can be lowered. It is high because it must fit in a small box. The earlier HD650 etc came in wider boxes and had a much better clamping force.
I just modified a new one again and it is inmediatly obvious how high and uncomfortable it clamps.

 

[Saffuria]

Remember, the clamping force of the HD58X can be lowered

I did lower the clamping force followiing the method you suggest in DIYAH, and not only my 58X are now much more confortable (being my head a 60 cm), but even the tonal balance changed for the better (of my needs) with lower bass and a bit more sparkle.

 

[solderdude]

This is interesting ...
Sonarworks measured some rogue but consistently measuring HD650's that appear to have a similar 'change' as the odd one out I measured in the HD58X.
Maybe there are still some more 'oddballs' around.

 

[Hugo9000]

This is interesting ...
Sonarworks measured some rogue but consistently measuring HD650's that appear to have a similar 'change' as the odd one out I measured in the HD58X.
Maybe there are still some more 'oddballs' around.

I read that thread about an hour ago. He said that around mid-Spring this year, the Romanian units began matching the Irish production FR (HD650, that is). So I hope that means Sennheiser found and corrected the issue, and also with the HD58X (assuming the anomalies had the same root cause).

 

[thomasjast]

@solderdude , now you got me spooked with that info. What if my Romanian 58X are one of the unusual ones? Ordered 3 weeks ago but my serial is 31xxx, which is lower than the OP’s example. What range are/were the models you tested?

 

[solderdude]

The Romanian version is not different from the Irish version.
What I understood from Massdrop is that the drivers are still made in Ireland and assembly takes place in Romania.
Romania does not make or 'tune' drivers.
The 'affected' serial number was 037089
Mine was early production # 52xx (end 2017), the Romanian one was 027165
Below is my theory which is NOT confirmed by Sennheiser nor Drop.
My best guess is that there was 'something' different in the plastic foil where the driver is made from and quite a lot of drivers were produced with this material.
This material may break-up differently (have different wave patterns in the membrane) and may well have been used for more than one product (driver type).

The reason I think this is that at about the same time HD650 (and most likely HD6XX and HD58X and possibly other models as well ?) showed less 'energy' above 1kHz. Sennheiser seems to 'match' drivers (left and right don't differ much) so driver 'pairs' are probably stocked.
When send over to the assembly line the pairs are just assembled and boxed. Going from Sonarworks's findings (which seem very relevant) it is a lottery rather than a serial number range.
This would make sense in the above scenario where stock with 'new' and 'old' drivers are assembled at random.
The latest one from Romania measured exactly the same as the early production one I have.
This is also seen by Sonarworks. He too mentions the Romanian models lately have the exact same FR as the earlier ones.
Possibly the 'odd' ones has been seen by quality control or by feedback they got and whatever 'changed' is now back to original.
In the latter case chances are the 'affected' drivers are either simply used or maybe binned.
I think the HD650/58X/6XX that will be sold in the future will be 'good ones'.

This probably means that for a while consumers may have been in a lottery when it concerns the SQ of the drivers.
The HD650 seems to be 'affected' far more than the HD58X though.

When you like the sound of the HD58X you have there is nothing to worry about. It is what it is. The only way to really find out is to have it measured or compare it to another one (much older or the latest)

 

[thomasjast]

Thank you. I really do like the sound of these, but have only ever heard my pair, so any paranoia gets to me.

I think the driver matching is what impresses me the most. I'm very sensitive to that and in that regard, they're superior to any headphone I've heard, barring my AirPods, whose matching is so perfect that both sides sound exactly as bad.

 

[Skies]

The serial number of my pair is 027165.

@thomasjast if you don't hear the treble as recessed, and you can hear a bump in midbass, you know you don't have an outlier. Besides, even if you did get one, the cost of that recessed treble also comes with the benefit of a flatter midrange. I wouldn't worry at all if i were you, especially if you enjoy the sound your pair produces.

 

[DivineCurrent]

Hey @solderdude , would you comment on the decreased bass distortion of the 58X compared to the rest of the HD 6-- line? I noticed on your measurements, bass distortion below 100 Hz doesn't rise as high as the 660s. It all stays below 1%. Any chance this distortion is audible?

58X Measurement:

vs 660S:

and 650:

Also, the one for the HD600 shows much less 3rd order distortion than 2nd, but it looks like 2nd order distortion goes way up there:

The 58X seems to be the cleanest of the bunch, but also has the highest 3rd harmonic distortion in the upper mids.

 

[solderdude]

The drivers differ and so does the response.

The HD660S and the HD650 both are measured on location in a not very quiet room so that has an impact on the distortion measurements.
Most likely that HD650 (2018) and HD660S are lower in 3rd, 4th and 5th harmonics than what is shown.
It is mentioned on the pages that it is measured in a not quiet room.

Both the HD600 and HD58X are measured at home under more quiet conditions.

 

[thomasjast]

@solderdude , I just got a pair of AKG K7XX and did the bass port mod. It didn’t take long but now they’re my new favourite headphones. The comfort, extra soundstage and treble (style) make the 58X redundant for me now. Very happy with these!

 

[solderdude]

Very happy with these!

That's what counts.

I do prefer the comfort of the K7XX over that of the Sennheisers.

 

[VintageFlanker]

The 58X Jubilee have just won the vote to be reviewed very soon by RTINGS. We will see tons of measurements about these.

Here we go!

RTINGS 58X Review

 

[flipflop]

Here we go!

RTINGS 58X Review

Pretty bad channel matching around 2 kHz.

 

[soundwave76]

Overall very nice measurements. I might try to eq the upper frequencies a bit just to see if I notice any differences.