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HD58X frequency response investigation

thomasjast

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I'm such a fool... just ordered a pair of HD6XX after not entirely loving the HD58X. Just gotta experience the difference for myself, money be damned.
 

VintageFlanker

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Hi VintageFlanker,

How do they sound now?
Was much burn-in/ rôdage needed?
Did you try some mods?
I m thinking about ordering some.
To me, they always sounded good with no improvement needed.

Thing is: I sold them already. :confused:

Not because of the sound, but the confort wasn't my cup of tea. The pads are still a bit stiff to my taste. More importantly, I wasn't able to wear it with my glasses for a long period (not that big of a deal without glasses). I'm quite a confort-addict, so most wouldn't bother.

Still a very high recommendation for the price!:)
 

Skies

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I've always found RTINGS bass compensation excessive. In fact, i think that the midbass hump of the HD58X out of the box is its only real weakness. I was lucky enough to get my pair modded by @solderdude six months ago, and frankly, i don't feel the need to buy, or even try another headphone anymore. These are now an improved HD600, which is what i always wanted to find in a headphone. I am wowed every time i put them on my ears.

My best buy in audio, despite the fact it was also one of the cheapest.
 
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pwjazz

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I've always found RTINGS bass compensation excessive. In fact, i think that the midbass hump of the HD58X out of the box is it's only real weakness. I was lucky enough to get my pair modded by @solderdude, and frankly, i don't feel the need to buy, or even try another headphone anymore. These are now an improved HD600, which is what i always wanted to find in a headphone. I am wowed every time i put them on my ears.

My best buy in audio, despite the fact it was also one of the cheapest.

Which mod do you have?
 

LuckyLuke575

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Ok... here we go.

I recently found out I have both of my ears blocked by ear wax. There was about 20 day period between when I stopped trying headphones at my local shop and when my 58X got delivered. In this period both of my ears become blocked. This ear blockage was such that it was low enough that it flew under my radar in normal everyday life but enough to ruin the listening experience once I got my headphones.

I didnt had any speakers or headphones for half year, that means I had no reference sound source that would alert me to this wax blockage. I thought there is something wrong with the headphone but it was my ears that had problem. I realized this three days back when I tried stock HD800, it sounded very dark and veiled, no soundstage, no transient microdetail, horrible sound. This was instant heureka realization moment when I knew within second after putting them on that there must be something wrong with my hearing.

I apologize for spreading false information, I acted with good intent. I never had ear wax blockage in my entire life, also bilateral, that means both ears blocked at same time is quite rare thing to happen. I have been using Q tips about every second day for one and half decade, never had problem till now. I had long hair most of my life and I cut it short this year, I also started wearing ear covering hat in winter becose without long hair I felt too cold, maybe that has something to do with it, I have no idea why this happened.

Was this all for nothing? No. Solderdude found that my 58X is indeed different, it looks like Sennheiser made silent revision, mine is significantly darker and has flat bass kinda like HD600, no hump.
But the review I wrote about the headphone is completly useless, I believe if my ears were ok, I would not hate this headphone, infact I think I would love that flat bass darker top end frequency response.
OMG this is madness. Are you the same fellow that was complaining on the Massdrop HD58X product page about the bad sound of the headphones????? The one I told to go and get their hearing checked?????
 

pwjazz

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The same felt mod SoldierDude has on his pair. It gets rid of that midbass hump.

Thanks, I was wondering which variant specifically (no hole, hole, what size hole?).
 

Martigane

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It looks like SolderDude recommends a 3.5mm hole in a synthetic stuff we put under chairs/furniture.
On my end I did the same mod and am happy with a 5mm hole. See measurements of RAW (uncompensated) response below. (Disregard energy above 8kHz, it was too position-specific).
HD58x_Fresp_Stock_4mm_5mm.png

HD58x_Fresp_Stock_4mm_5mm_Zoom.png
 

thomasjast

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@solderdude I just got my 6XXes and holy crap. Why are they approximately infinity times better than the 58X? Did I really have a dud pair of those? I almost want to buy another pair just to be sure... but they were nothing like this. The 6XX treble is fantastic and better than anything I've ever heard, which was my huge complaint about the 58X.
 

solderdude

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@solderdude I just got my 6XXes and holy crap. Why are they approximately infinity times better than the 58X? Did I really have a dud pair of those? I almost want to buy another pair just to be sure... but they were nothing like this. The 6XX treble is fantastic and better than anything I've ever heard, which was my huge complaint about the 58X.

hd650-2018-vs-hd58x1.png


HD58x vs HD650
As can be seen the HD650 has 3dB more 'presence/clarity' and 3dB more upper treble. The treble on the HD650 also is 'smoother' and more refined.
There is a price difference and that is not for nothing.
HD58X is definitely 'tighter' in the lows.
 

solderdude

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It looks like Solderdude recommends a 3.5mm hole in a synthetic stuff we put under chairs/furniture.
On my end I did the same mod and am happy with a 5mm hole. See measurements of RAW (uncompensated) response below. (Disregard energy above 8kHz, it was too position-specific).

Skies version has the Superlux foam mod, so not the felt glider with hole which has the 4.5kHz dip.
The one with foam against the driver hole.

Whether one measures the lows 'flat' depends on the compensation in the lows.
 

thomasjast

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HD58x vs HD650
As can be seen the HD650 has 3dB more 'presence/clarity' and 3dB more upper treble. The treble on the HD650 also is 'smoother' and more refined.
There is a price difference and that is not for nothing.
HD58X is definitely 'tighter' in the lows.

I've always seen your graphs but it never seemed like that much of a difference. I watched Oluv's comparison with 600/6XX/58X with the recordings and that's what made me think I wanted to try the 6XX. His graphs showed a similar amount of higher treble levels and for some reason I always had it in my head that the 650/6XX were veiled/dark/whatever.

Of course, a headphone that has 58X bass and 6XX treble would be perfect. :cool:
 

solderdude

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It is often said that HD650 is veiled.
This is because those saying that either don't know what neutral treble sounds like (in level) or are used to Beyer, audiotechnica, Grado, HD700, HD800 or other treble happy headphones.

The HD660S and HD58X are less 'hot' in clarity and somewhat less hot in amount of treble.
Nothing EQ cannot fix. The 'texture' of the treble and bass differs still though, even with EQ.

FR is the biggest part but not the complete picture of SQ.
 

maxxevv

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@solderdude I just got my 6XXes and holy crap. Why are they approximately infinity times better than the 58X? Did I really have a dud pair of those? I almost want to buy another pair just to be sure... but they were nothing like this. The 6XX treble is fantastic and better than anything I've ever heard, which was my huge complaint about the 58X.
To me the 6XX sounds really good with solo vocals and intimate stage recordings. And I have not found anything that appeals to me more in this area. Equaled perhaps.

Its probably why so many people like them. And also why so many don't. They don' t sound so great with ' busy' tracks compared to so many others out there.
 

Tks

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I'm such a fool... just ordered a pair of HD6XX after not entirely loving the HD58X. Just gotta experience the difference for myself, money be damned.

Barring placebo, just expect less bass. I have both, and blind tested both. I also had the 660S. All these headphones are honestly the same in terms of sound for the most part, barring build materials and direct Sennheiser warranty, I cannot fathom why anyone would pay for a 660S over a 58X for example.

I really cannot understand what people are talking about when they talk about all these veils and stuff.. Sure the 58X sound a bit more "bloated", but people make it sound as if it's a whole world of difference.

My hearing extends to 17K if I test myself using my normal listening volume.
 

LuckyLuke575

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@solderdude I just got my 6XXes and holy crap. Why are they approximately infinity times better than the 58X? Did I really have a dud pair of those? I almost want to buy another pair just to be sure... but they were nothing like this. The 6XX treble is fantastic and better than anything I've ever heard, which was my huge complaint about the 58X.
The treble is indeed excellent, naysayers talking about veils be dammed :D
 
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It is often said that HD650 is veiled.
This is because those saying that either don't know what neutral treble sounds like (in level) or are used to Beyer, audiotechnica, Grado, HD700, HD800 or other treble happy headphones.

The HD660S and HD58X are less 'hot' in clarity and somewhat less hot in amount of treble.
Nothing EQ cannot fix. The 'texture' of the treble and bass differs still though, even with EQ.

FR is the biggest part but not the complete picture of SQ.
I know I'm late to this thread, but now owning all 3 of these (HD6xx, HD58x and most recently purchased HD660s) I 100% agree with this assessment.

The HD650/6xx are so often referred to has "veiled" (I hate that term), boring or muted. That description seems to get parroted all over the internet. However, I find the 6xx to be the clearest, with the most "sparkly" treble of the 3.

On the flip side, the 660s is often described as being "punchier" than the 650/6xx, which I also disagree with. The 660s is the darkest of the 3 to my ears. I think the 660s however excels in layering and detail in the recording vs the other two. The 6xx is more detailed in treble, but lacks this layering and detail across the rest of the range vs the 660s- for some reason the 660s sound more full, spacious and layered to me.

Having said all of that, I've always felt the 58x frequency response just sounds "right". Its difficult to explain, but to my tastes the FR is close to perfect. Its readily apparent though that the driver in the 58x is not as technically capable as the 6xx & 660s. Comparing back and forth its very easy to tell.

Still for straight enjoyment with music and games, just enjoying the sound instead of listening to the gear so to speak, the 58x is the jam.
 

Electrolite

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I know I'm late to this thread, but now owning all 3 of these (HD6xx, HD58x and most recently purchased HD660s) I 100% agree with this assessment.

The HD650/6xx are so often referred to has "veiled" (I hate that term), boring or muted. That description seems to get parroted all over the internet. However, I find the 6xx to be the clearest, with the most "sparkly" treble of the 3.

On the flip side, the 660s is often described as being "punchier" than the 650/6xx, which I also disagree with. The 660s is the darkest of the 3 to my ears. I think the 660s however excels in layering and detail in the recording vs the other two. The 6xx is more detailed in treble, but lacks this layering and detail across the rest of the range vs the 660s- for some reason the 660s sound more full, spacious and layered to me.

Having said all of that, I've always felt the 58x frequency response just sounds "right". Its difficult to explain, but to my tastes the FR is close to perfect. Its readily apparent though that the driver in the 58x is not as technically capable as the 6xx & 660s. Comparing back and forth its very easy to tell.

Still for straight enjoyment with music and games, just enjoying the sound instead of listening to the gear so to speak, the 58x is the jam.

I wonder how the 58X would compare using this EQ setting. It lowers the 5k peak and makes cymbals more alive. For me it fixes the strange 58X timbre and some fatigue I had with it.
 

jae

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With enough power, I don't think 650/6XX feels that "veiled" at all. Maybe compared to a more modern/well designed planars or other well-performing headphones, but people have been making this complaint about 650s since their release when 95% of them were probably running them with inadequate amplification and there was virtually no all-around better options.
 
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