Have DT880, worth it to get HD800?

[Dealux]

They have a sort of similar tonal profile but they're both bad in some significant ways. To my ears, Beyers like the DT 880 and 990 have a smoother timbre (perhaps due to better midrange tuning) which helps render stuff like room/reverb cues quite a bit better, but the big caveat is that they all have a sharp metallic timbre that gets very annoying after a while. Perhaps the 880 has it to a lesser extent than some of the other Beyers.

The HD800, on the other hand, is bad because it has a very "plasticky" timbre and imaging that is a little confused. Due to its unique tuning and perhaps reflections in the cups, they have a very spacious sound at first glance but at the cost of a hollow sound that often seems to lack body or physicality. Instruments are actually kinda hard to pin to a specific point in the soundstage because parts of any given instrument seem to be missing (there's a sensation of haziness or lack of clarity). So in essence in order to get that wide and fairly deep sound (though vocals will often sound in your head or behind it) it sacrifices image clarity or sharpness, at least as far as I perceived it. But the HD800 sounds much more open compared to any Beyer because it has much much less dampening. Beyers are treble murder cans without all of the dampening foam and filters but that means they also sound somewhat closed compared to some true open backs.

Edit: A cheap used HD800 is good value and whilst I really liked the way they looked and felt (though the headband killed the top of my head) I had to get rid of them because I was dissatisfied with the sound.

 

[BillyD]

They have a sort of similar tonal profile but they're both bad in some significant ways. To my ears, Beyers like the DT 880 and 990 have a smoother timbre (perhaps due to better midrange tuning) which helps render stuff like room/reverb cues quite a bit better, but the big caveat is that they all have a sharp metallic timbre that gets very annoying after a while. Perhaps the 880 has it to a lesser extent than some of the other Beyers.

The HD800, on the other hand, is bad because it has a very "plasticky" timbre and imaging that is a little confused. Due to its unique tuning and perhaps reflections in the cups, they have a very spacious sound at first glance but at the cost of a hollow sound that often seems to lack body or physicality. Instruments are actually kinda hard to pin to a specific point in the soundstage because parts of any given instrument seem to be missing (there's a sensation of haziness or lack of clarity). So in essence in order to get that wide and fairly deep sound (though vocals will often sound in your head or behind it) it sacrifices image clarity or sharpness, at least as far as I perceived it. But the HD800 sounds much more open compared to any Beyer because it has much much less dampening. Beyers are treble murder cans without all of the dampening foam and filters but that means they also sound somewhat closed compared to some true open backs.

Edit: A cheap used HD800 is good value and whilst I really liked the way they looked and felt (though the headband killed the top of my head) I had to get rid of them because I was dissatisfied with the sound.

I see. What would you recommend then?

 

[Dealux]

I see. What would you recommend then?

As a dynamic driver headphone? Probably the Focal Clear or Elex. They're warmer but should have excellent clarity and the tonal profile is really good as well. The Elex is a bit dodgy in terms of QC though with lots of people having issues with dead drivers. I should also say that I would mainly recommend the original Focal Clear, not the MG which is even warmer and probably has less clarity overall.

Other options would include the Hifiman Arya or the Ananda if you are on a tighter budget. They both have better bass than the HD800 and better mid and treble tuning. The HD800 imaging/staging thing is mostly a gimmick imo. Even the DT 880 has more cohesive imaging but perhaps it is less open sounding overall.

 

[BillyD]

I don't know if anyone is still paying attention here but, I got the HD800S a few days ago finally. The S not the original. They sound amazing but I had a few questions.
1) Is there really channel imbalance with the JDS Atom? I did a bit of research and saw people mentioning it and now to me it seems to exist now since its been pointed out to me so it may be placebo. But I feel like certain parts of the music are audible only on one side and not both, certain instruments and such is this normal?
2) Do I need anything more than an Atom for an amp? I know its been pointed out here that its good enough but I keep seeing (not here on this forum) that the HD800 is very amp picky and it needs certain amps to change its characteristics better or something and I have even seen people say that the Atom is not gonna drive these to their full potential. Now that I have the headphones I have a lot of paranoia about certain things like this lol.
3) Also I don't know if this is just me not being used to them yet but I feel like certain instruments like drums for instance don't have that much texture? and feel a bit too smooth? It could just be that that's how they are mastered or I am just getting used to the headphones for now and I will notice more depth in the future though.

 

[solderdude]

1) if you want to find out use mono recordings.

2) You don't need it but it will keep nagging... you bought and expensive headphone and you keep wondering if you will be missing out when not buying a more expensive amp... and then the cables ...

3) recordings can be all over the place.

 

[BillyD]

1) if you want to find out use mono recordings.

2) You don't need it but it will keep nagging... you bought and expensive headphone and you keep wondering if you will be missing out when not buying a more expensive amp... and then the cables ...

3) recordings can be all over the place.

1) Good idea Ill do that

2) Yeah exactly I thought about the cables too haha. Unbalanced vs balanced, are the ones I have already good enough or do I need more expensive ones etc. If I don't need anything else sound quality wise then I won't get anything.

3) Yeah I see. I guess its just the recordings themselves. Its not like the headphones can create detail when there isn't any.

 

[solderdude]

2) personally I hate the stock HD800 cable. It is stiff and too long. Amir seems to like it.

I changed cables on mine because I wanted a shorter and supple cable. Also microphony is a good reason to change cables. Don't do it thinking they sound better, despite many audiophiles swearing the sound is improved. Aftermarket cables for HD800(S) are quite expensive. This is because
A) The connectors are expensive.
B) Owners want the best (means expensive).
C) (the biggest reason) the headphone is only bought by people that can afford it and it is easier to sell an expensive cable to flagship headphone owners than to say... a K371 owner. The owners obviously have money to spend.

3) right... but some headphones can reveal details other headphones won't be able to in an equally good manner. The HD800(S) does this better than most other headphones but certainly isn't the only one.

Don't get drawn into this too much. When you hate the cable, not for the sound it does not get any better, but for one of many other reasons replace it with one you like.
You don't need a multi thousand dollar amp for it but if you want one then you should buy it. Just like cables, when one feels it sounds better and can enjoy it more I am all for it.



On another note... do you prefer the HD800 over the DT880 and was it worth the investment for you ?

 

[BillyD]

2) personally I hate the stock HD800 cable. It is stiff and too long. Amir seems to like it.

I changed cables on mine because I wanted a shorter and supple cable. Also microphony is a good reason to change cables. Don't do it thinking they sound better, despite many audiophiles swearing the sound is improved. Aftermarket cables for HD800(S) are quite expensive. This is because
A) The connectors are expensive.
B) Owners want the best (means expensive).
C) (the biggest reason) the headphone is only bought by people that can afford it and it is easier to sell an expensive cable to flagship headphone owners than to say... a K371 owner. The owners obviously have money to spend.

3) right... but some headphones can reveal details other headphones won't be able to in an equally good manner. The HD800(S) does this better than most other headphones but certainly isn't the only one.

Don't get drawn into this too much. When you hate the cable, not for the sound it does not get any better, but for one of many other reasons replace it with one you like.
You don't need a multi thousand dollar amp for it but if you want one then you should buy it. Just like cables, when one feels it sounds better and can enjoy it more I am all for it.



On another note... do you prefer the HD800 over the DT880 and was it worth the investment for you

2) I love the cable for the HD800. The material it has and the length are actually positives for me. I was more so worrying about the quality of rca cables I use for the amp and stuff like that. They are pretty good from what I can tell they are HAMA rca to 3.5mm cables that I got for like I think 11 euros I think? (Im in europe not usa)

3) Good to know, I value detail, clarity and soundstage a lot, maybe more than any other quality.

Also for the last sentence... oh yeah! I am addicted to them haha. I didn't wear the DT880 as much during the day as I do these. Freaking beautiful sound and that soundstage is phenomenal. Which is why I am a bit paranoid about getting the most out of it cause they really impressed me. I just want to be sure that I already get the most sound quality out of them possible which it seems like I do from your comments. I guess the only thing that *may* improve sound is an external dac but even that like you had said is maybe not needed at all. I am looking at the Atom DAC + at the moment but I want to know if there its a big loss that it's not DSD and MQA compatible.

 

[solderdude]

2) as long as you don't hear any hum or any werid sounds and the 3.5mm plug doesn't give any contact problems the RCA cable is fine.

Do you have/play many DSD and MQA files ?
If not I would not worry about it.

 

[BillyD]

2) as long as you don't hear any hum or any werid sounds and the 3.5mm plug doesn't give any contact problems the RCA cable is fine.

Do you have/play many DSD and MQA files ?
If not I would not worry about it.

Yeah Im not hearing anything weird like that as far as I can tell. Also really dumb question but, yesterday I accidentally plugged the 3.5mm plug into the "headphone/speaker out" of my motherboard for a few seconds. Nothing was playing I believe, it was silent. Is there any chance I did any harm to either the amp or the headphones?

 

[solderdude]

no problem.

 

[Pearljam5000]

Had both
HD800 is a Ferrari and the DT880 are a Toyota

 

[BillyD]

Had both
HD800 is a Ferrari and the DT880 are a Toyota

Oh yeah agreed. The DT 880 is very good, I am not selling them or anything. But yeah the HD800 is just phenomenal.

 

[thewas]

Had both
HD800 is a Ferrari and the DT880 are a Toyota

So one is good quality, reliable and working well under most conditions and the other not?

 

[Skinner001]

... looking at the Atom DAC + at the moment but I want to know if there its a big loss that it's not DSD and MQA compatible.

Most people struggle hearing the difference between a 192 and 320 kbps MP3 let alone differences firther down the line.

I'd wager that 99% of people couldn't tell a difference between the same recording in CD 44.1/16 format vs DSD. But hey, DACs are clean and transparent, so we need gimmicks to sell new products with so called "features".

Engineers can improve the numbers and new tech can give you better measurements, but the human auditory system puts hard limits on whether those improvements mean anything in a practical sense.

 

[BillyD]

Most people struggle hearing the difference between a 192 and 320 kbps MP3 let alone differences firther down the line.

I'd wager that 99% of people couldn't tell a difference between the same recording in CD 44.1/16 format vs DSD. But hey, DACs are clean and transparent, so we need gimmicks to sell new products with so called "features".

Engineers can improve the numbers and new tech can give you better measurements, but the human auditory system puts hard limits on whether those improvements mean anything in a practical sense.

Yeah true but like... you know sometimes I use Tidal and I also have some Depeche Mode DSD isos that I would like to utilize is all. I heard that you can convert DSD to PCM but I don't know if sound quality is the same. And with MQA you don't get the same SQ if its just software decoding or something I think.

 

[Skinner001]

Yeah true but like... you know sometimes I use Tidal and I also have some Depeche Mode DSD isos that I would like to utilize is all. I heard that you can convert DSD to PCM but I don't know if sound quality is the same. And with MQA you don't get the same SQ if its just software decoding or something.

Oh, that I get, this is more of when people new to the hobby ask do they need support for every format out there due to sound quality differences. If you already have a collection and want to get gear that will play your stuff and support your habits with the least amount of fuss then go for it.

 

[BillyD]

Oh, that I get, this is more of when people new to the hobby ask do they need support for every format out there due to sound quality differences. If you already have a collection and want to get gear that will play your stuff and support your habits with the least amount of fuss then go for it.

Yup that's it. If it was only for sound quality and not actual content I probably wouldn't care. But I think I have to pay more than the Atom + Dac to get all that so idk.

 

[Skinner001]

Yup that's it. If it was only for sound quality and not actual content I probably wouldn't care. But I think I have to pay more than the Atom + Dac to get all that so idk.

I did get my Gustard x16 at a lower price so that played a part, but also that peace of mind that I have all the features that I might want (e.g. BT) in one well performing package played a part - even if I'd be happy enough with the E30 from Topping 90% of the time (the other 10% I'd curse it for not having BT ).

 

[Malaj]

They have a sort of similar tonal profile but they're both bad in some significant ways. To my ears, Beyers like the DT 880 and 990 have a smoother timbre (perhaps due to better midrange tuning) which helps render stuff like room/reverb cues quite a bit better, but the big caveat is that they all have a sharp metallic timbre that gets very annoying after a while. Perhaps the 880 has it to a lesser extent than some of the other Beyers.

The HD800, on the other hand, is bad because it has a very "plasticky" timbre and imaging that is a little confused. Due to its unique tuning and perhaps reflections in the cups, they have a very spacious sound at first glance but at the cost of a hollow sound that often seems to lack body or physicality. Instruments are actually kinda hard to pin to a specific point in the soundstage because parts of any given instrument seem to be missing (there's a sensation of haziness or lack of clarity). So in essence in order to get that wide and fairly deep sound (though vocals will often sound in your head or behind it) it sacrifices image clarity or sharpness, at least as far as I perceived it. But the HD800 sounds much more open compared to any Beyer because it has much much less dampening. Beyers are treble murder cans without all of the dampening foam and filters but that means they also sound somewhat closed compared to some true open backs.

Edit: A cheap used HD800 is good value and whilst I really liked the way they looked and felt (though the headband killed the top of my head) I had to get rid of them because I was dissatisfied with the sound.

That is not my experience with the HD 800 and HD 800S at all. They appear to have less reflections from the cups then any other dynamic or magnetostatic headphone I listened too. They have a hollow driver and that does help create extra space without cup resonances limiting the size is my theory for their larger then average soundstage while still correct and precise. In games I have not found a headphone that image more accurately to let me spot where sound comes from. It´s just more diffuse on other headphones I tried. I do play the Hunter classic a lot and there it´s a constant battle trying to use all your senses crawling in grass because if you can see them they can see you

As for tonality I agree yes for sure it´s not quite right. It´s not the most musical headphone for that rason alone though impressive on so many levels.