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Bowers & Wilkins 606 S3 vs. Polk r100 - Is it worth the difference for Bowers & Wilkins 606 S3

really not sure how you're getting CD from this:

Calculate the overall averaged 4pi level, compare it to on-axis per frequency-band, you get the d.i.. In the old days this was done with one measurement under anechoic conditions and the other one in a reverberation chamber.

As mentioned, it is not perfect, and bandwidth-limited due to cabinet size and choice of tweeter, but more or less balanced. There is no 1/3-octave band between 700Hz and 6,000Hz overly deviating from a +-1dB tolerance band in d.i.

Not sure if you misunderstood what was said or if you don't know how to read a contour plot?

I have been dealing with polar plots and resulting d.i. calculations comparing them with listening tests on a professional level. I know how to read the graph, and I know how it sounds in different rooms.

You might be visually focussing on the -3dB or -6dB isobaric line or its change in color. This tells you something about the attenuation at a given frequency or angle when leaving the optimum listening window, but the overall averaged energy in the room is a different thing. Look at the calculated d.i. over frequency which is a much better indication.

What you call a ´widening´ is like +1dB in indirect sound level. Would argue that it is barely audible under usual conditions in a smaller room, in a frequency range which usually is seeing a mild decrease in RT60 due to increasing absorption grade of materials.

But we agree on the problematic behavior of the tweeter beyond 8K. Toe-in might bring some more upper treble but usually comes at the price of less precise or less stable imaging. It is a common thing with these ring-radiator type of tweeter.
 
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´Musical and detailed´ at the same time might require a bit more of research on speaker choice and experimenting. I would not go for any model just because it enjoys a certain reputation and is discounted.

A small room will inevitably lead to the wall behind the speakers or the side walls being more or less close to the speaker. Getting the right speakers which are acoustically fitting to such situation, is key. You might want to narrow down the list of candidates looking at measurements like bass, directivity pattern and driver geometry, but in the end of the day you have to try.

I personally prefer coaxial designs in a more nearfield-like arrangement or with side walls being close to the speakers. Choosing a random one, though, might bring you to a situation of imbalanced sound in the room, as many popular designs have uneven dispersion.
Thanks for the comprehensive answer.


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Not to mention their bizarre shift to 1st-order crossovers that happened some time in the mid-2000s. I would be very hesitant in handing over my hard-earned cash for a product that knowingly violates multiple well-established rules of good loudspeaker design.

Back to the OP:

Hmm. If anything, I would expect them to be slightly bright in the mid-treble due to the widening in dispersion there. One thing I noticed is that they do not seem very happy playing loud, which seems to reveal both the woofer's excursion limits and some sort of mechanical (cabinet?) resonances.


That's supposed to be a discount? They are quite commonly available around the 700€ mark around here and have been for months. I don't consider that a bargain. Which other speaker brands are easily available to you? There has to be something better in this price bracket. (I can think of some nice active speakers in this range, but passive, hmm...) Also, have you looked at the used market at all?

You said you have a Cambridge amplifier, what kind of sources are feeding it?

BTW, you seem to have a slightly tense relationship with measurements and units, which has me left scratching my head trying to figure out what you were trying to say:

Is that supposed to be m², or ft x ft? (The former would be small indeed, the latter not a whole lot bigger.)

Did you mean cm? 55 ft = 16.764 m is more than you could even fit in most rooms, and 55 inches would still be 1.4 m, neither qualifying as "not very much" in my book.
Thank you very much for the complete and clear answer to my question.
I'm in Bulgaria, Bowers & Wilkins 606 S3 cost regular price new - 900/1000$.I got Polk for 450$.
Regarding Active, I already got into the movie with an amplifier, but I would be happy to hear what you can say about active in this range?
In the office I use Edifier S2000MK III which I got on Black Friday for 250$ and they play great for their money in my opinion.
But let's get back to the topic.I look a lot at Facebook groups for second-hand and similar sites for used equipment and follow them from time to time.But maybe what you said, that I will hardly get a big and significant difference if I replace Polk with Bowers & Wilkins 606 S3.So maybe I will wait until I have more budget and eventually get something that will upgrade more than half or one step.Regarding my music source.I use Spotify through the TV to the amplifier.
And the Yamaha 303 CD player on which I play Flag tracks and MP3.I have decided to get a streamer soon.
To raise the quality level because I know it is not that good through the TV
.I watched reviews of the Cambridge Audio CXN100 because the amplifier is like that and I thought since they are the same brand they must be great.But recently I liked the Volumio Rivo Plus.Yes, it is quite expensive, but someday when I have a budget I will see which one I can get from them to raise the sound quality.If you have any suggestions for Passive Speakers in the range of up to $ 2000 I would be happy to hear?I had read and watched a lot of reviews for the Revel m106.Regarding the room 12-14m².
 
really not sure how you're getting CD from this: View attachment 444470

There's a pretty clear pinch-and-flare between about 1500-4000hz.

I suppose it's more constant than this, though...

View attachment 444472



My guess is that the "muffled" sound is because the Polk's tweeter beams rather low in frequency, which makes it pretty picky on toe-in. Play with the angle towards listening position - you might get a result you like better.
really not sure how you're getting CD from this: View attachment 444470

There's a pretty clear pinch-and-flare between about 1500-4000hz.

I suppose it's more constant than this, though...

View attachment 444472



My guess is that the "muffled" sound is because the Polk's tweeter beams rather low in frequency, which makes it pretty picky on toe-in. Play with the angle towards listening position - you might get a result you like better.
I tried rotating them several times and directing them so that they were vertical and at an angle to my ears.
But overall there is almost no difference.
According to reviews, they are said to play most correctly with the correct angle to the listener.And that's how I think I set them.
 
Overall I like the Polk as a vision.Bowers & Wilkins 606 S3 are quite similar visually, much bigger of course.
But at least a few songs I notice that Polk sound quite a bit muffled.I don't know if it's the adjustment with the amplifier, the room or my ears.
I like Polk.
There is music that just sounds great, but overall I want something better and at the moment there is a discount for the amount of $ 800 for Bowers & Wilkins 606 S3 and that's why I got this fly in my head to change.Regarding changing the angles and distance, yes I have tried, at the moment they are directed at a slight angle that supposedly points directly at me.The distance from the wall is unfortunately not very much, maybe about 55ft.

I would suggest the RME ADI-2 DAC FS. Using the Loudness feature with the ADI-2 software I can make your Polk r100 sound just like the B&W 606 or much better. That feature can take speakers that sound a little muffled (like you are experiencing) and make them sound razor sharp like you are in the front row. It's crazy amazing difference. To get it to work install the ADI-2 software and play your target song while adjusting the Loudness settings. Once I fully understood this tool I realized It can make most speakers sound better than I ever expected. You can buy it from a reputable dealer with a 30 day return period. Nothing to lose in trying.

If you don't want to try the RME, I would suggest looking at the BMR Monitor. I have a pair of 606 and the BMR monitors and the BMR monitor is 1000x more capable.
Happy listening! :D

 
I would suggest the RME ADI-2 DAC FS. Using the Loudness feature with the ADI-2 software I can make your Polk r100 sound just like the B&W 606 or much better. That feature can take speakers that sound a little muffled (like you are experiencing) and make them sound razor sharp like you are in the front row. It's crazy amazing difference. To get it to work install the ADI-2 software and play your target song while adjusting the Loudness settings. Once I fully understood this tool I realized It can make most speakers sound better than I ever expected. You can buy it from a reputable dealer with a 30 day return period. Nothing to lose in trying.

If you don't want to try the RME, I would suggest looking at the BMR Monitor. I have a pair of 606 and the BMR monitors and the BMR monitor is 1000x more capable.
Happy listening! :D

Thank you very much.I will keep it in mind for future BMR speakers.
Regarding the RME ADI-2 DAC FS, you are messing with me again hahaha.To be honest, I had been looking at it for a while and ended up buying a Topping 90se for $450.
And it turned out that it didn't work with my Samsung Frame TV and the amplifier.There was a crack and I sold it and now I'm without a DAC.But I've now taken a look at the HARMONY µDAC.Otherwise, I really liked the RME ADI-2 DAC FS from the reviews and the fact that it has an Equalizer.As for the dilemma about the Mojo 2, but maybe it's for the computer in the office.
Like you with some of the great system you built.
Regards
 
Thank you very much.I will keep it in mind for future BMR speakers.
Regarding the RME ADI-2 DAC FS, you are messing with me again hahaha.To be honest, I had been looking at it for a while and ended up buying a Topping 90se for $450.
And it turned out that it didn't work with my Samsung Frame TV and the amplifier.There was a crack and I sold it and now I'm without a DAC.But I've now taken a look at the HARMONY µDAC.Otherwise, I really liked the RME ADI-2 DAC FS from the reviews and the fact that it has an Equalizer.As for the dilemma about the Mojo 2, but maybe it's for the computer in the office.
Like you with some of the great system you built.
Regards

I had the Topping 90SE DAC. Sold it. It's nothing compared to the RME ADI-2 DAC Loudness feature with the ADI-2 app. That setup is a game changer. No other DAC compares. Whatever sound you want - it can get you there.
 
I had the Topping 90SE DAC. Sold it. It's nothing compared to the RME ADI-2 DAC Loudness feature with the ADI-2 app. That setup is a game changer. No other DAC compares. Whatever sound you want - it can get you there.
Great.
I'll have it as a serious joker when I get a dac!Since it's quite an old PME I hope they release generation 3 soon.
 
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