The DT1990 Pro with Dekoni Elite Velours pads, HD58X would come to mind. They will sound more "correct" than the HD800/HD800S and are easier to EQ to Harman or similar. If you want the HD800 sound, you will need the HD800 though. It does not sound correct, but also does a very good job at hiding it.
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Well, the HD800 fails to accurately reproduce deep notes and replaces it with weird treble detail that you really should not hear obviously. So ultimately, it does not sound correct.
Price wise the HD58X is certainly not an "upgrade", but sound wise, if accurate reproduction of music is what you are looking for, it would be.
Price wise the HD58X is certainly not an "upgrade", but sound wise, if accurate reproduction of music is what you are looking for, it would be.
The HD58X doesn't have any better bass extension than the HD800.
solderdude
Grand Contributor
It does not follow the Harman preference curve. That's all.
Compared to Harman preference low bass response is a bit low and treble is a bit high.
Upper mids are a bit low in level but most don't mind.
The HD800(S) is not a gold standard. It is a good headphone where EQ is recommended.
That is how it sounds to me without EQ. It is lacking in sub-bass and has too much treble instead. I hear things that I highly doubt should hear like this and can barely hear low notes. I would not call that accurate. It's completely different with EQ.
Different people just have different preferences. If you already like the DT880 and just want "more", especially soundstage, the HD800 are a good bet. Possibly even without EQ or mods since the 880 are already pretty bright to begin with.
If you like lots of detail, even if it's overdone, the HD800 would be a good start. you can always EQ up the bass so nothing gets lost there. Although I would say that the HD800 without EQ does not sound obviously incorrect. It is noticeable when I switch EQ on and off, but without that, it would be easy to accept no EQ as "correct".
@solderdude has a beautiful analog eqalizer called the Kameleon eq that he designed. You should ask him about it. Works very well 
I use that with my HD800 S (+ a schitt loki min plus for a bass bump to taste).
I use that with my HD800 S (+ a schitt loki min plus for a bass bump to taste).- Thread Starter
- #33
Thanks for that. @solderdude can you elaborate? Also why isn't the HD800 not a gold standard and what headphone would you say is?@solderdude has a beautiful analog eqalizer called the Kameleon eq that he designed. You should ask him about it. Works very well
solderdude
Grand Contributor
There is no gold standard. One can say a headphone that has a frequency response closely following a specific standard then that headphone adheres to that standard (say Harman target).
Any headphone that complies would sound tonally correct (if one finds the Harman curve tonally correct)
The K371 is relatively close, the Stealth is even closer, the HE1 is also close.
So... in the cheap range the K371 could be the cheapest headphone having a correct tonal balance and could be called a standard.
But is a closed headphone with build issues, pleather pads and has seal issues.
In the expensive range the Stealth could well be the gold standard. But again seal is an issue and is closed which one may not need.
It won't sound like a HD800S but will have some of its better qualities (have not heard one)
The HE1 could well be the gold standard but one has to pay a lot of gold to get it.
But not only the tonal balance matters. Some say that is indeed the case but it isn't. Comfort matters, seal matters, stereo imaging matters, build quality matters, support matters, open/closed matters, portable or desktop matters.
The HD800 is not close to Harman but is excellent at other aspects.
The thing is tonal balance is easy to correct, other mentioned aspects are not.
So the best thing is to buy something that is excellent overall (not seal dependent, comfortable, excellent instrument separation and does not need much EQ.
The HD800 (in the $ 700-1000 range) might well fit those criteria for a lot (but not all) people.
In that sence it is a good choice but (IMO) needs EQ to really become one of the best, at least for me.
Basically.. in every price range there can be a 'best' headphone but may not be the same one for everyone.
For me, in that price range the HD800 is the best choice. Others will claim the HE400 will do the same after EQ (it does not but to them its good enough).
Audition it, use it with EQ (or the treble filter when this is the only downside for you) and enjoy it knowing it does not get any better than this.
I have many headphones I like and use but the HD800 with EQ is the best. Mostly I can take a step back without being bothered by it and mostly use the HD560S (a good compromise but feels cheap and lower treble is too high but fixable)
Any headphone that complies would sound tonally correct (if one finds the Harman curve tonally correct)
The K371 is relatively close, the Stealth is even closer, the HE1 is also close.
So... in the cheap range the K371 could be the cheapest headphone having a correct tonal balance and could be called a standard.
But is a closed headphone with build issues, pleather pads and has seal issues.
In the expensive range the Stealth could well be the gold standard. But again seal is an issue and is closed which one may not need.
It won't sound like a HD800S but will have some of its better qualities (have not heard one)
The HE1 could well be the gold standard but one has to pay a lot of gold to get it.
But not only the tonal balance matters. Some say that is indeed the case but it isn't. Comfort matters, seal matters, stereo imaging matters, build quality matters, support matters, open/closed matters, portable or desktop matters.
The HD800 is not close to Harman but is excellent at other aspects.
The thing is tonal balance is easy to correct, other mentioned aspects are not.
So the best thing is to buy something that is excellent overall (not seal dependent, comfortable, excellent instrument separation and does not need much EQ.
The HD800 (in the $ 700-1000 range) might well fit those criteria for a lot (but not all) people.
In that sence it is a good choice but (IMO) needs EQ to really become one of the best, at least for me.
Basically.. in every price range there can be a 'best' headphone but may not be the same one for everyone.
For me, in that price range the HD800 is the best choice. Others will claim the HE400 will do the same after EQ (it does not but to them its good enough).
Audition it, use it with EQ (or the treble filter when this is the only downside for you) and enjoy it knowing it does not get any better than this.
I have many headphones I like and use but the HD800 with EQ is the best. Mostly I can take a step back without being bothered by it and mostly use the HD560S (a good compromise but feels cheap and lower treble is too high but fixable)
[ur]http://garage1217.com/new_website_017.htm[/URL] The Garage 1217 Kameleon eq. I suggest buying it with the aluminum chassis it looks fab. But you don't have to
It comes with hardware analog corrections for TWO headphones of your choice free.
It looks fantastic!
- Thread Starter
- #36
That looks really cool. What is the difference between analog eq and digital through equalizer apo for example?[ur]http://garage1217.com/new_website_017.htm[/URL] The Garage 1217 Kameleon eq. I suggest buying it with the aluminum chassis it looks fab. But you don't have to
It looks fantastic!
solderdude
Grand Contributor
For digital EQ you have to use something that processes it. Any phone, laptop/PC/ players can do that.
Your phono pre or tape recorder or some players can not.
When for instance you want to play vinyl or tape and don't want/can't to use (digital) EQ.
It is rather limited in what it can do so only one notch/peak (within constraints) and some shelving so elaborate and sharp EQ is not possible.
Only headphones that just need a little nudge here and there.
Also no loss of headroom due to no negative pre-amping.
Your phono pre or tape recorder or some players can not.
When for instance you want to play vinyl or tape and don't want/can't to use (digital) EQ.
It is rather limited in what it can do so only one notch/peak (within constraints) and some shelving so elaborate and sharp EQ is not possible.
Only headphones that just need a little nudge here and there.
Also no loss of headroom due to no negative pre-amping.
Here's my reason. If you have a DAC that you like and you are wanting to use an eq on the analog output of the dac. A regular digital eq like minidsp will digitize the signal and then convert it back into analog. At that point, the DAC sound quality is usually decided by the digital eq as it is acting as a dac. So if you are like me and have spent time looking for a DAC whose analog sound output you like, then I don't want that to be converted back in to digital.
An analog eq doesn't re-digitize the signal.
Most people will say that the DAC doesn't matter at all and for them it doesn't matter if the sound is redigitzed ADC and then decoded (DAC). They may be right. But it does matter for me.
There are software eqs that alter the digital signal BEFORE it gets to the dac. But in my case it's not feasible as I have digital sources that don't go through a PC like a blu ray player, record player, and console.
Another reason I like it is that it doesn't need me to figure out settings and installing stuff etc. It's already optimized for my headphones. My preferred headphone module was already screwed into the filter. So I just pluged it in to the power and I was off to listening to music.
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solderdude
Grand Contributor
Not when the exact same correction is applied.
Kameleon modules are constructed with my 'target' curve and not on a HATS.
So the HD800 will sound different on the Kameleon, different with Amirs EQ, different with Oratory EQ, different with auto EQ, different with Sonar works, different with the ifi amp and different without any EQ.
Kameleon modules are constructed with my 'target' curve and not on a HATS.
So the HD800 will sound different on the Kameleon, different with Amirs EQ, different with Oratory EQ, different with auto EQ, different with Sonar works, different with the ifi amp and different without any EQ.
