Gustard X16 Balanced MQA DAC Review

[gustard]

So you advocate float pin 3? Gustard have given me 2 answers which in my view are completely different.


The last post is grounding V- even though its at the amp end, its no different than bridging 1 to 3 at the XLR end, the only difference as I have since been reading is noise, this is how March Audio recommend RCA to XLR and I think he may have got this from Ghent. My cable has 2 conductors plus shield.



View attachment 109629

Please note that the connection method in the figure does not apply to X16.

 

[bartgign]

Have you contacted them? Purchased mine on 11 November and received it last Monday 25th January, seems you have about another week to wait going on my dates but send them an email. To be fair we got a great deal if you got it at the discounted price and then another $40 dollars refund as I did.

I made many emails. The answer : "this week"

 

[ABall]

Please note that the connection method in the figure does not apply to X16.

Ok thanks I wont use that method and I have never used it. I floated pin 3.

 

[JohnYang1997]

Yeah, it was the gustard....With headphones connected to L30, turn L30 on and off have very low click sound. But with L30 already on and connected to x16, turning on and off x16 would produce much louder noise to my headphones. Imagine instead of headphones and L30, my amps and subs are connected directly to x16 and I turn on and off the x16....

There's DC blocking capacitor at the input of L30. So it kept the DC out. When turning on and off the X16 the DC is not DC anymore it's the transient you are hearing which will come through the capacitor coupling to the output. But you are fine, with L30 in between you don't have DC afterwards.

 

[ABall]

I made many emails. The answer : "this week"

They will be sending you a despatch notice any day then, I cant complain about the postage, it was lightening fast, we all knew about the delays and made our choice to wait or get a refund.

 

[mocenigo]

They will be sending you a despatch notice any day then, I cant complain about the postage, it was lightening fast, we all knew about the delays and made our choice to wait or get a refund.

I have a tracking number, for German in-country "DHL Paket" service, but issued through 4PX. Not in transit but in the system. I suppose Shenzen Audio is getting the little headamp soon to me

 

[Pdxwayne]

There's DC blocking capacitor at the input of L30. So it kept the DC out. When turning on and off the X16 the DC is not DC anymore it's the transient you are hearing which will come through the capacitor coupling to the output. But you are fine, with L30 in between you don't have DC afterwards.

May I know sound quality wise, it is better to use x16 as preamp or add in L30 to use as preamp? I believe around -13db or so with x16 is a good volume for my setup.

Also, is the 2009 series L30 safe to use as preamp? Or should I wait for my replacement?

Thanks!

 

[Frio]

2009 series L30

According to their Facebook post they are not safe.

 

[cursive]

There's no difference if you cannot hear any noise in the first place.

I guess I'm a bit confused too as I see this common question about going from dac directly to amplifier or powered speakers.

I've considered running dac at full volume and use something like passive volume controller
https://www.amazon.com/Nobsound-Fully-Balanced-Single-Ended-Pre-Amplifier-Controller/dp/B01MXC9HHW

Or is that over complicating things and best to just use the digital volume control included on the DAC?

I'm always left wondering if one method of volume control is inherently worse for SINAD, or sound in general?

 

[Dannemand]

As a general input on the debate about volume control on a DAC:

ESS posted the following presentation several years ago, in which they make the case that digital volume control isn't as bad as its reputation when performed in the 32-bit space of the DAC chip AND when compared to the challenges of adding analog volume control either in the output stage or a preamp -- both of which have quality cost as well, depending on their implementation.

http://www.esstech.com/files/3014/4095/4308/digital-vs-analog-volume-control.pdf

If feeding an integrated or an amp with gain control, then obviously set that to keep DAC output as high as possible. But my take is that minor adjustments on the DAC (up to -10dB) should be acceptable and inaudible.

I am feeding a Bryston power amp directly from my Gustard A18. The amp has input sensitivity of merely 0.78v, and its gain pots are set pretty low to compensate for the very hot 6.3Vrms signal from the Gustard. I then use the Gustard remote to perform daily volume adjustments. The Bryston has separate L/R pots so it avoids the balance issue of some pots, but of course pots are not perfect either.

What I would NOT do are:

1) Use software volume control, since it operates in the 16 or 24-bit space and really cuts into the effective resolution.

2) Feed DAC through XLR directly into a power amp with no gain control where you have to adjust the the DAC way low. This has to hurt resolution. In that case using RCA out to cut voltage in half seems a better option, although it loses the balanced advantage. I don't have the experience to say if an XLR attenuator (as suggested) is a better solution. Could well be.

Please take this merely as input. But do read that presentation from ESS before concluding. It's not that long

 

[cursive]

http://www.esstech.com/files/3014/4095/4308/digital-vs-analog-volume-control.pdf

Wow thanks for the link, a great and easy to understand presentation of both sides of the argument.

I'm hooking up to a Hypex amp with no volume control, so I'm typically attenuating WAY more than 10db, your idea on using RCA instead of XLR to halve the voltage is a good idea, I'll have to try that first and see where I end up volume wise.

I've never seen one of those passive preamps measured, but from the presentation it seems like if their noise floor is below that of the dac, then the analog volume control is still the best way to go.

 

[dan kolov]

Has anyone connected Gustard X16 to a source that has I2S?
What is the difference between I2S vs USB?
Which connection is better for sound quality?

 

[lizhuoyin]

There are a lot of posts in asr about volume control. Regarding benefits of software volume control (Windows specific), check out followings:
Ending the Windows Audio Quality Debate;
Software Player volume vs. DAC vs. Analog;
Why we should use Software volume control

Bottom line, use your ears to judge.

 

[Veri]

Has anyone connected Gustard X16 to a source that has I2S?
What is the difference between I2S vs USB?
Which connection is better for sound quality?

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...face-better-for-dacs-than-s-pdif-or-usb.7105/
There's no reason to believe buying yet another interfacing device just to plug something between your DAC and its I2S input will improve anything.

 

[Dannemand]

Wow thanks for the link, a great and easy to understand presentation of both sides of the argument.

I'm hooking up to a Hypex amp with no volume control, so I'm typically attenuating WAY more than 10db, your idea on using RCA instead of XLR to halve the voltage is a good idea, I'll have to try that first and see where I end up volume wise.

I've never seen one of those passive preamps measured, but from the presentation it seems like if their noise floor is below that of the dac, then the analog volume control is still the best way to go.

To be fair, you can probably go lower than -10dB. But if I had to play most of the time in (say) the -30dB range, I would say it's worth looking at other options.

Yes, try RCA out (RCA-to-XLR cables if your amp doesn't have RCA) and see how it goes. You will lose a little SINAD this way too, but nothing is perfect.

A preamp is definitely the classic solution, and I would recommend a passive one unless you need active features. But as the old saying goes, the best sounding preamp is no preamp at all

 

[Dannemand]

There are a lot of posts in asr about volume control. Regarding benefits of software volume control (Windows specific), check out followings:
Ending the Windows Audio Quality Debate;
Software Player volume vs. DAC vs. Analog;
Why we should use Software volume control

Bottom line, use your ears to judge.

It is a reasonable argument not to worry about subtle SQ differences if nobody can hear them anyway. I don't think it is entirely true that nobody can. But what's more to the point, the reason people are excited about X16 is its subtly better measurements than other reasonably priced DACs. IOW pursuing subtle SQ improvements is the entire reason for this 67 page thread.

And if anybody is concerned whether they should use DAC volume control or not (and Gustard recommends they DON'T) then the answer certainly isn't to adjust volume on the source stream -- which is always going to be lower resolution than the DAC's internal 32 bits, and thus more affected by resolution loss. That is factual, whether anybody can hear it or not.

Also, volume adjustment on the source stream will break MQA, for those who want to use that.

If you were referring to software control of the DAC's hardware volume of course that's another matter. I haven't been able to do that on my Gustard A18 using UAPP (haven't tried from Windows). I'd be curious if it's different on X16.

 

[ABall]

I have a tracking number, for German in-country "DHL Paket" service, but issued through 4PX. Not in transit but in the system. I suppose Shenzen Audio is getting the little headamp soon to me

Make sure they are not waiting for you to pay import fees, I only found out by clicking on "manage delivery" in a txt from DHL, when I entered the tracking number direct into DHL tracking it didnt mention the fee.

 

[bennetng]

http://www.esstech.com/files/3014/4095/4308/digital-vs-analog-volume-control.pdf

Wow thanks for the link, a great and easy to understand presentation of both sides of the argument.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...depth-should-i-set-my-dac-to.8956/post-255104

 

[Frio]

To avoid customs and I had to have it quickly I bought last week at aufiophonics and got it already. Is there something different compared to those from china? I heard there is no need for a Firmware update.

 

[JohnYang1997]

May I know sound quality wise, it is better to use x16 as preamp or add in L30 to use as preamp? I believe around -13db or so with x16 is a good volume for my setup.

Also, is the 2009 series L30 safe to use as preamp? Or should I wait for my replacement?

Thanks!

I thought you got your replacement, wait for replacement I guess.