Gryphon Apex Stereo power amplifier Measurements (Stereophile)

[AdamG]

You have rested my case as well. If you like to have a say as much as you do perhaps you should consider becoming a forum donor and help this forum stay afloat. After all you do use it and so far it's been at every other donors and Amir's expense.

On that note. Can we please dial back the personal stuff. The next personal shot over the bow, might ricochet back at the author.

 

[John Atkinson]

My spray was all about the excuses JA used to justify one of his advertisers poorly measured products.

A clarification needed here: I don't have any advertisers. Since I retired as Stereophile's editor in March 2019, I have been a freelance writer, providing measurements, reviews, and articles to the magazine. And I think it appropriate to point out (again) that the Gryphon Apex Stereo is not a "poorly measured product."

Plus, you have to remember that without JA’s work these past decades, we’d have no measurements at all on a countless number of products. I imagine he’s had to fight to keep measurements a part of Stereophile many, many times.

Just once, actually. In 2004, the magazine's then upper management decreed that Stereophile would no longer publish measurements of the products it reviewed. Naturally I disagreed, and ignored the mandate. But as resources or support from the company would no longer be forthcoming, since that time I have personally financed the purchase of test equipment, an investment over the years of a high 5-figure sum.

Not only did this decision mean that Stereophile would continue to publish measurements, it also gave me some additional job security. In the occasional conflicts I had with upper management over the years, firing me for insubordination would have meant losing the measurements, which post-2004 management valued.

John Atkinson
Technical Editor, Stereophile

 

[changster]

A clarification needed here: I don't have any advertisers. Since I retired as Stereophile's editor in March 2019, I have been a freelance writer, providing measurements, reviews, and articles to the magazine. And I think it appropriate to point out (again) that the Gryphon Apex Stereo is not a "poorly measured product."

It's definitely poor for a $100k product. $100k products are held to a very different standard where nothing but perfection is expected.

 

[changster]

JA, I want to thank you for all your contribution to the audio world. It's your life's work, and I think you improved the industry and improved the community as a whole. Not everyone can say that about their life's work.

 

[usersky]

Money is usually a corrupting influence. Stereophile was started by JGH as subscriber supported without ads. As a business plan it didn't work out well enough. Harry Pearson did the same thing at TAS and it didn't work out either. I subscribed to both for about 20 years and no longer do. ASR has no ads and that allows Amir to let the chips fall where they may. That is very valuable even if Amir doesn't monetize it. I of course hope he never does.

A reminder for me it's time for a donation to ASR.

 

[sweetsounds]

These ratios are referred to 1W into 8 ohms, ie, 2.83V. The audioband ratio is 85dB, ie, the level of random noise and power supply-rated spuriae is just below 0.02%. This is not audible.

John Atkinson
Technical Editor, Stereophile

Hi John,
As a reader of Stereophile for several decade I highly appreciate your work and always used the tests and recommended components as guidance.

The struggle to get measurements in sync with audibility is evident, in particular for speakers and rooms. But isn't electronics easier?
A DAC should reconstruct the recorded waveform and an amplifier should be a wire with gain. So shouldn't we expect better than 96dB SINAD for CD quality in HiFi?

Electronics can be made robust compared to moving parts in speakers which need to be light and stiff at the same time. So channel mismatch and component degradation aren't acceptable.

I am disappointed by some of the top brands like Gryphon, Accustic Arts, D'Agostino. Besides the uncertainty of quality issues, some add distortion altering the signal. It doesn't give me peace of mind when listening.

The Classé, Rotel, Mark Levinson, Boulder show that it can be done well.

I would hope for some clearer quality ratings in the measurement section and more tests by Stereophile of top brands like Aries Cerat, Soulution, Bolder, and Nagra, because you are the only one measuring these.

 

[Matias]

This Gryphon Apex Stereo amp is not so bad: for 170k usd Stereophile tested the darTZeel NHB-468 which measures a lot worst.

darTZeel NHB-468 monoblock power amplifier Measurements

Sidebar 3: Measurements Because of the darTZeel NHB-468's bulk and weight, and also because the amplifiers needed to be picked up for photography as soon as Michael Fremer had finished his auditioning, I drove my Audio Precision SYS2722 systemsee the January 2008 "As We See It"its host computer...

www.stereophile.com

 

[egellings]

For that kind of money, it better have a toilet paper holder mounted on it somewhere.

 

[Geert]

I am disappointed by some of the top brands like Gryphon, Accustic Arts, D'Agostino.

D'Agostino, another joke https://www.stereophile.com/content...n-m550-monoblock-power-amplifier-measurements

I had people owning these kind of amps making fun of my Cambridge amp https://www.stereophile.com/content/cambridge-audio-edge-integrated-amplifier-measurements

 

[sprellemannen]

D'Agostino, another joke https://www.stereophile.com/content...n-m550-monoblock-power-amplifier-measurements

I had people owning these kind of amps making fun of my Cambridge amp https://www.stereophile.com/content/cambridge-audio-edge-integrated-amplifier-measurements

My impression is that many of Cambridge Audio's products are good and measurements confirm that. Enjoy your Cambridge amp, and I guess you are correct regarding D'Agostino.

 

[Powerbench]

A statement would be deadlifting a couple of those at the same time.

Well I used to rep out with 500 for 5 reps for mucho no belt and just straps but this is surprising disappointing….I once considered Gryphon thank God I didn’t!
Btw powerlifting never came close to that expensive!

 

[Powerbench]

My impression is that many of Cambridge Audio's products are good and measurements confirm that. Enjoy your Cambridge amp, and I guess you are correct regarding D'Agostino.

I liked the CA Azur line up 10-20 years ago 540, 740 or something….

 

[Blumlein 88]

I doubt any of us want to listen to Class C amps, although they're great for FM transmitters. As for the rest...Stereophile is really more for entertainment than precise information. It is what it is, as the old saying goes.

When almost everything you touch gets your highest rating, Then you have lost the reason to rate.

 

[Vacceo]

Well I used to rep out with 500 for 5 reps for mucho no belt and just straps but this is surprising disappointing….I once considered Gryphon thank God I didn’t!
Btw powerlifting never came close to that expensive!

If you don't look like a hobo when you lift, you're doing it wrong!

Yes, I agree, with the price of an amp like that, you have years of excellent eating. Plus, you can get an amp that will allow you to play Godflesh at high volume with the same quality while you lift and eat like a gorila.

 

[Powerbench]

If you don't look like a hobo when you lift, you're doing it wrong!

Yes, I agree, with the price of an amp like that, you have years of excellent eating. Plus, you can get an amp that will allow you to play Godflesh at high volume with the same quality while you lift and eat like a gorila.

Old tee ,shorts or track pants and Chuck Taylors or Adidas Olympic lifting shoes. No muscle shirts, gloves, belt, ballon’s pants for me brother! Never wore a belt till deadlifted over 550…or squatted over 485 for reps
The Strongest shall Survive(Bill Star).

 

[DonR]

D'Agostino, another joke https://www.stereophile.com/content...n-m550-monoblock-power-amplifier-measurements

I had people owning these kind of amps making fun of my Cambridge amp https://www.stereophile.com/content/cambridge-audio-edge-integrated-amplifier-measurements

It's a sad indictment of human nature that some people feel the need to boost their own egos by deriding the purchasing decisions of others. Reflects very poorly on them, IMO.

 

[mglobe]

It's a sad indictment of human nature that some people feel the need to boost their own egos by deriding the purchasing decisions of others. Reflects very poorly on them, IMO.

And yet many here do exactly this when they criticize those who by the expensive stuff.

On a separate note, thank you to @John Atkinson for being here.

 

[Tranquility Bass]

A clarification needed here: I don't have any advertisers. Since I retired as Stereophile's editor in March 2019, I have been a freelance writer, providing measurements, reviews, and articles to the magazine. And I think it appropriate to point out (again) that the Gryphon Apex Stereo is not a "poorly measured product."




Just once, actually. In 2004, the magazine's then upper management decreed that Stereophile would no longer publish measurements of the products it reviewed. Naturally I disagreed, and ignored the mandate. But as resources or support from the company would no longer be forthcoming, since that time I have personally financed the purchase of test equipment, an investment over the years of a high 5-figure sum.

Not only did this decision mean that Stereophile would continue to publish measurements, it also gave me some additional job security. In the occasional conflicts I had with upper management over the years, firing me for insubordination would have meant losing the measurements, which post-2004 management valued.

John Atkinson
Technical Editor, Stereophile

It will indeed be a sad day when Stereophile stops publishing those measurements. To me it's like the proverbial centerfold and I would not read the mag otherwise. And there is only a handful of others that do measurements but probably not to the extent that Stereophile does and lets face it this whole thread only really exists because of the controversy surrounding those measurements and not because of the subjective comments in that review

 

[Vacceo]

The controversy is about John's considerations in light of the numbers.

Let's pause for a second: numbers. How often do you get that in mainstream salesmen.... Eeehm reviewers?

Sure, we absolutely love Amir's no strings attached way of doing things; it is awesome and allows him to be a truly independent voice. But not everyone is Amir, most of us do have strings attached.

Yet, there you have the numbers; not the veils or Diana Krall, or the transformative experience; the numbers.

 

[DonR]

And yet many here do exactly this when they criticize those who by the expensive stuff.

On a separate note, thank you to @John Atkinson for being here.

I think most of the rebuke is directed at those who because they spend big money buying equipment believe it sounds better and have greater faith in their own biases than they do in the facts of measurement. Nothing wrong with buying peacock feathers, just don't try to convince everyone that they can help the peacock fly better than other feathers.