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Gryphon Apex Stereo power amplifier Measurements (Stereophile)

TimF

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I suppose I sound like an apologist for this review and amp. I really am not. However it is like your Porsche is delivering 1500 lbs of drive at each of the wheels and they unfortunately differ by a 4 ounces (1/4 pound) instead of being truly balanced. Is that going to matter in the use of it?

The Porsche certainly seems like a much better value for the money by a factor of about 1000 to me.
Yes. You got my point; the Porsche seems like a better value and they are equivalently priced. However, they are both equally outdated tech.
 

Blumlein 88

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I tried to find Gryphons own specifications for the amplifier.

Would it suprise anyone that on their own website there are none? It's very hard to prove the amplifier is below published specifications if you say, contacted me and wanted me to represent you to get your money back. Their defence is we never published anything so the measurements you obtained are of no value since we never promised you it would meet any stated standard.


If you bought it, you could hear what JA couldn't because you have young hearing and you hate it you are stuck with it.

What I did find is this.

Apex Stereo​

Gryphon Apex: The Pinnacle of Performance
It has always been Gryphon’s mission to achieve the highest possible audio performance. in terms of sheer musicality, transparency and realism. With Apex Mono and Apex Stereo, Gryphon Audio Designs elevates pure Class A power amplification a titanic leap above what was previously considered possible. Gryphon Apex takes us several crucial steps closer in the never-ending quest for a more natural and convincing musical illusion.
Years of experience developing Antileon EVO and Mephisto, as well as ongoing research in the fields of circuit topology, component quality and reliability have culminated in Apex: the new flagship amplifier of the Gryphon Audio Designs brand.

It's actually the best they can do.
Well there is what they supplied to Stereophile.

Description: Solid state, stereo power amplifier. Input: 2 balanced (XLR). Output: 2 pair custom gold-plated binding posts. Input impedance, balanced (20Hz–20kHz): 20k ohms. Output impedance: 0.015 ohm. Voltage gain: 31dB. Bandwidth: 0.3Hz–330kHz, –3dB. Max. input level: 1.16V RMS. Output power: 210Wpc into 8 ohms (23.2dBW), 420Wpc into 4 ohms (23.2dBW), 800Wpc into 2 ohms (23.0dBW), 1490Wpc into 1 ohm (22.7dBW). Power supply capacity: 1,040,000µF. Power consumption, high bias: <0.5W at idle.

I noticed in their stuff on their web page they go on about true class A blah, blah, blah. Then there is this specification for power consumption of .5 watt at idle. Must turn off or go into standby or something.

Also listed here:


And I notice here they aren't claiming actual Class A, only class A input and voltage amplifier stages. Output stage must be something else.

The whole Green bias bit in the Class A section of the web site is a marvel of double speak.
 
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nothingman

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I never put words in your mouth, that was your mouth that opened not mine. Usually I hear that phrase when I have a witness in the box cornered like a rat, it's very strange hearing that coming from you as a defence. That is why I quoted what YOU said so you could not specifically use that phrase and yet you did. Read it anyway you want. Please don't compare yourself to Amir, who at the end of every set of measurements is man enough to offer an opinion as to whether or not he recommends the equipment under test. He has a spine that allows him to stand up. Fortunately for Gryphon and yourself Amir will never get to test this boat anchor and put another nail in the coffin.

Here are a few more words I never put in your mouth.

Your excuse for the poor performance of the amplifier in your "Review".


Your excuse for the poor performance of the amplifier on ASR.

Either statement is just plainly embarrassing from a "Technical Editor".


Let me give you another example of why your magazine is failing and why I have no faith anything you say.

The PS Audio Direct Stream DAC review from stereophile. https://www.stereophile.com/content/ps-audio-perfectwave-directstream-da-processor-measurements


This is in total contrast to what Amir tested.

So NO John you cannot compare yourself to Amir or the way he tests equipment. That is what taking money from people to advertise their product does to the market under the guise of a detailed technical review. It always skews the result in favour of the the payer. In court that is often referred to as a bribe. Or at the very least "Cash for comment"

When people say ASR is full of impolite, unhinged cultists who treat Amir like a messiah, they are referring to posts like this.

Whatever you think of Stereophile and its methodology and sins (and I’ve been plenty blunt myself), @John Atkinson himself is an unfailingly kind man who doesn’t deserve to be likened to a “rat” caught lying on the witness stand. To say that’s uncalled for is a huge understatement.

Plus, you have to remember that without JA’s work these past decades, we’d have no measurements at all on a countless number of products. I imagine he’s had to fight to keep measurements a part of Stereophile many, many times. Yes, I also think he lets too many manufacturers off the hook in his brief wrap-up comments, but his graphs are the only speck of Stereophile that is free from marketing spin.

Adding a whole “don’t you ever compare yourself to Amir, mister!” spin on things just makes you come off a bit crazy or overly emotionally invested and makes us look bad.
 

restorer-john

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I never put words in your mouth, that was your mouth that opened not mine. Usually I hear that phrase when I have a witness in the box cornered like a rat, it's very strange hearing that coming from you as a defence. That is why I quoted what YOU said so you could not specifically use that phrase and yet you did. Read it anyway you want. Please don't compare yourself to Amir, who at the end of every set of measurements is man enough to offer an opinion as to whether or not he recommends the equipment under test. He has a spine that allows him to stand up. Fortunately for Gryphon and yourself Amir will never get to test this boat anchor and put another nail in the coffin.

Here are a few more words I never put in your mouth.

Your excuse for the poor performance of the amplifier in your "Review".


Your excuse for the poor performance of the amplifier on ASR.

Either statement is just plainly embarrassing from a "Technical Editor".


Let me give you another example of why your magazine is failing and why I have no faith anything you say.

The PS Audio Direct Stream DAC review from stereophile. https://www.stereophile.com/content/ps-audio-perfectwave-directstream-da-processor-measurements


This is in total contrast to what Amir tested.

So NO John you cannot compare yourself to Amir or the way he tests equipment. That is what taking money from people to advertise their product does to the market under the guise of a detailed technical review. It always skews the result in favour of the the payer. In court that is often referred to as a bribe. Or at the very least "Cash for comment"

My goodness, what a ridiculous spray from the safety of anonymity behind a keyboard! Have a bad day at the office huh? You really should sit the next couple of plays out. Like the rest of the season.

Clearly, you have zero experience whatsoever with Gryphon products- that is patently obvious. I spent an afternoon with a Diablo today at a friend's place. From my perspective, there is very little to criticise. The component choice, quality, build is beyond first rate. They tend to re-scale your expectations.

I would also hazard a guess that you wouldn't know one end of an oscilloscope probe to the other, let alone the intricacies of a distortion analyzer. JA doesn't need to compare himself to Amir or anyone else. His technical reviews stand (and have done for many years) as the current benchmark for comprehensive technical analysis of high fidelity gear. They are superior, considerably more detailed and offer a way greater insight into the performance of the various products he tests than just about anybody out there.

We are fortunate he occasionally posts here. Your personal attacks are unwarranted, unwelcome and unbecoming.
 

Tranquility Bass

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When people say ASR is full of impolite, unhinged cultists who treat Amir like a messiah, they are referring to posts like this.

Whatever you think of Stereophile and its methodology and sins (and I’ve been plenty blunt myself), @John Atkinson himself is an unfailingly kind man who doesn’t deserve to be likened to a “rat” caught lying on the witness stand. To say that’s uncalled for is a huge understatement.

Plus, you have to remember that without JA’s work these past decades, we’d have no measurements at all on a countless number of products. I imagine he’s had to fight to keep measurements a part of Stereophile many, many times. Yes, I also think he lets too many manufacturers off the hook in his brief wrap-up comments, but his graphs are the only speck of Stereophile that is free from marketing spin.

Adding a whole “don’t you ever compare yourself to Amir, mister!” spin on things just makes you come off a bit crazy or overly emotionally invested and makes us look bad.
I hope that JA and Stereophile keep up with the measurements then people can draw their own conclusions regarding the objective performance of equipment otherwise it will be endless rants about soundstage and imaging. I remember the early days of Halcro and Stereophile picked up an issue with one of the amps and sure enough Halcro fixed the problem in the next release and that's why measurements are so important in a review. ;)
 

restorer-john

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I remember the early days of Halcro and Stereophile picked up an issue with one of the amps and sure enough Halcro fixed the problem in the next release and that's why measurements are so important in a review

Go read the Stereophile Halcro review again and familiarise yourself with the actual facts. Report back to this thread with your specific findings. The review is available on Stereophile's website.
 

JSmith

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This will be Michael Fremer's last article @stereophile btw;

1661247103723.png


Maybe this will mean a more objective direction in future?


JSmith
 

noiseangel

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My goodness, what a ridiculous spray from the safety of anonymity behind a keyboard! Have a bad day at the office huh? You really should sit the next couple of plays out. Like the rest of the season.

Clearly, you have zero experience whatsoever with Gryphon products- that is patently obvious. I spent an afternoon with a Diablo today at a friend's place. From my perspective, there is very little to criticise. The component choice, quality, build is beyond first rate. They tend to re-scale your expectations.

I would also hazard a guess that you wouldn't know one end of an oscilloscope probe to the other, let alone the intricacies of a distortion analyzer. JA doesn't need to compare himself to Amir or anyone else. His technical reviews stand (and have done for many years) as the current benchmark for comprehensive technical analysis of high fidelity gear. They are superior, considerably more detailed and offer a way greater insight into the performance of the various products he tests than just about anybody out there.

We are fortunate he occasionally posts here. Your personal attacks are unwarranted, unwelcome and unbecoming.
Anonymity you use as well Restorer John. No I had a wonderful day thanks for asking. Even better after reading your reply.

My spray was all about the excuses JA used to justify one of his advertisers poorly measured products. If you honestly believe that the Technical Editor of such a prestigious magazine used supply chain issues, couriers and other reviewers damage for the poor measurements of a product that is advertised in his magazine, then I should be the one asking you which end of the CRO probe goes to the resistatator. Its the pointy bit if that helps. If thats the best answer JA can come up with then he has ZERO technical credibility left in my view. And your support for that excuse speaks volumes. If that is the current benchmark for explaining poorly performing products god help us. Like I said before, supply chain issues? Are you kidding me?

I hope you have a good day tomorrow
 

fpitas

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All I see with that design is an abstract bull...which might be a fitting metaphor for what it puts out given the test results.
It is a bit odd looking. I guess to emphasis how much you paid. It's big and heavy, too. I don't think we're going to understand.
 

Tranquility Bass

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Go read the Stereophile Halcro review again and familiarise yourself with the actual facts. Report back to this thread with your specific findings. The review is available on Stereophile's website.

When I reviewed the 180Wpc, $18,790 Halcro dm38 stereo power amplifier in October 2004, I had found a rather higher level of distortion just before the amplifier reached its clipping point than was specified by the manufacturer. I also concluded that while the solid-state dm38 sounded superb, particularly with respect to its effortless dynamics and its astonishingly clean presentation, the amplifier is balanced toward the cool side of the spectrum, and will work best with speakers and source components that don't themselves sound lean.

After the review sample (serial no.110015) had been returned to Halcro in Australia, designer Bruce Candy informed me that they had found that a small capacitor in the amplifier's circuit was out of tolerance, and that they would send me a second sample. This sample (serial no.1100130) duly arrived, and after a delay while I reviewed other products, I unpacked it and used it for much of my usual review auditioning.
 

restorer-john

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and sure enough Halcro fixed the problem in the next release

And exactly how is a single capacitor out of tolerance in a single review sample anything other than an aberration?

What specific reference do you have to a 'problem being fixed in a new release"?* What new release? What problem? Hint: there wasn't one.

* your words.
 

Blumlein 88

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I do find it interesting that Stereophile in the latest recommended compontents listed 37 amps just in class A. Ranging in price from $799 to $195,000. Yet only 7 class B amplifiers with zero class C or D amps.
 

Tranquility Bass

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And exactly how is a single capacitor out of tolerance in a single review sample anything other than an aberration?

What specific reference do you have to a 'problem being fixed in a new release"?* What new release? What problem? Hint: there wasn't one.

* your words.
Well obviously that's not what Halcro thought about it for them to want to change it and send it back ;)
 

noiseangel

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When people say ASR is full of impolite, unhinged cultists who treat Amir like a messiah, they are referring to posts like this.

Whatever you think of Stereophile and its methodology and sins (and I’ve been plenty blunt myself), @John Atkinson himself is an unfailingly kind man who doesn’t deserve to be likened to a “rat” caught lying on the witness stand. To say that’s uncalled for is a huge understatement.

Plus, you have to remember that without JA’s work these past decades, we’d have no measurements at all on a countless number of products. I imagine he’s had to fight to keep measurements a part of Stereophile many, many times. Yes, I also think he lets too many manufacturers off the hook in his brief wrap-up comments, but his graphs are the only speck of Stereophile that is free from marketing spin.

Adding a whole “don’t you ever compare yourself to Amir, mister!” spin on things just makes you come off a bit crazy or overly emotionally invested and makes us look bad.
Lovely embellishment of what I wrote.

I never called him a liar, read it again. You just threw that in which makes you a liar. You did get one thing right, he lets too many manufacturers off the hook in his brief wrap-ups. You don't need my help to make you look bad. I do like that JA liked what you wrote, so I presume he agrees he lets manufacturers off the hook too.

If it came to a measurement competition my money will always be on Amir. Why? Because he is not stupid enough to blame a piece of equipment that measures bad on someone who reviewed it before or, still my favourite of all, supply chain issues. Crack me up.

I will give him one thing at least he did measurements. Its the excuses that I don't like.
 

nothingman

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Lovely embellishment of what I wrote.

I never called him a liar, read it again. You just threw that in which makes you a liar. You did get one thing right, he lets too many manufacturers off the hook in his brief wrap-ups. You don't need my help to make you look bad. I do like that JA liked what you wrote, so I presume he agrees he lets manufacturers off the hook too.

If it came to a measurement competition my money will always be on Amir. Why? Because he is not stupid enough to blame a piece of equipment that measures bad on someone who reviewed it before or, still my favourite of all, supply chain issues. Crack me up.

I will give him one thing at least he did measurements. Its the excuses that I don't like.

I, uh, rest my case on the “a bit crazy or overly emotionally invested” stuff.
 

fpitas

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I do find it interesting that Stereophile in the latest recommended compontents listed 37 amps just in class A. Ranging in price from $799 to $195,000. Yet only 7 class B amplifiers with zero class C or D amps.
I doubt any of us want to listen to Class C amps, although they're great for FM transmitters. As for the rest...Stereophile is really more for entertainment than precise information. It is what it is, as the old saying goes.
 

noiseangel

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I, uh, rest my case on the “a bit crazy or overly emotionally invested” stuff.
You have rested my case as well. If you like to have a say as much as you do perhaps you should consider becoming a forum donor and help this forum stay afloat. After all you do use it and so far it's been at every other donors and Amir's expense.
 
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