Great music - but recording unfortunately is "meh"...

[ryanosaur]

MC5
Great music; horrible recording... especially considering their first album, Kick Out The Jams, was live. But then they were always somewhat lackluster in the studio.

 

[the_brunx]

Everything by James brown. he was on his own lane but recorded with a potato

 

[kemmler3D]

aka the funkiest keychange in history...one of my all-time favorites.
can't expect a analog bass to go deep though. the kick should definitely have more "oomph", though...you can hardly hear it. got more problems with the midrange though.
since I am playing with the new Ozone 11 I actually might try to "remaster" this

EDIT: it actually switches to a synth bass, but how to boost that one without boosting the other?

I think realistically if you just boost +3dB below 100hz and +4-6dB below 60hz the whole thing would probably snap into place. Synth bass can go as loud and low as you want it, as long as you mix it as such... which they did not, sadly.

 

[MaxwellsEq]

Another one I'll mention is Yes, particularly their first 5 albums. Back in the day I always liked the music but it was recorded so poorly that listening to it gave me a headache. Compressed and excessively bright/tinny sound, typical of pop/rock in the era. That bright mastering didn't do any favors to Jon Anderson's high pitched voice. Then Steven Wilson remixed those albums (not just a remaster but a remix) and it was a HUGE improvement. Finally this music got the great sound quality that it always deserved. No longer excessively bright, but with neutral tonal balance, bass that is tight and crisp with deep extension, all the musical parts easier to hear without masking each other, bigger dynamics.

Another one is Pink Floyd Animals. Pink Floyd was the exception, having well engineered studio albums that sounded much better than most other rock/pop of the era. Yet I always found Animals to be the weakest of the bunch sonically, voiced bright with a wonky midrange emphasis. Then in 2018 James Guthrie remixed this album and the result was spectacular, much like what Steven Wilson did for the Yes albums. I haven't seen any other Floyd albums he remixed, so perhaps he agreed with my perception of the Pink Floyd discography sound quality.

Absolutely agree. Steve Wilson's mixes of the Yes catalogue have instruments with genuine sounding timbre. If only Going For The One could be salvaged.

The remix of Animals is superb - the bass guitar is suddenly a bass guitar!

 

[Geert]

Gregory Porter - All Rise (2020). A jazz album on the Blue Note Records label, nevertheless someone thought it was a good idea to compress it to a dynamic range of 8dB on average That's Metallica compression level territory.

 

[Sal1950]

Another one I'll mention is Yes, particularly their first 5 albums. Back in the day I always liked the music but it was recorded so poorly that listening to it gave me a headache. Compressed and excessively bright/tinny sound, typical of pop/rock in the era. That bright mastering didn't do any favors to Jon Anderson's high pitched voice. Then Steven Wilson remixed those albums (not just a remaster but a remix) and it was a HUGE improvement. Finally this music got the great sound quality that it always deserved. No longer excessively bright, but with neutral tonal balance, bass that is tight and crisp with deep extension, all the musical parts easier to hear without masking each other, bigger dynamics.

Another one is Pink Floyd Animals. Pink Floyd was the exception, having well engineered studio albums that sounded much better than most other rock/pop of the era. Yet I always found Animals to be the weakest of the bunch sonically, voiced bright with a wonky midrange emphasis. Then in 2018 James Guthrie remixed this album and the result was spectacular, much like what Steven Wilson did for the Yes albums. I haven't seen any other Floyd albums he remixed, so perhaps he agreed with my perception of the Pink Floyd discography sound quality.

Agreed, The modern multich releases of these albums are some of the best things to happen to Hi-Fi in decades.

 

[dasdoing]

I think realistically if you just boost +3dB below 100hz and +4-6dB below 60hz the whole thing would probably snap into place. Synth bass can go as loud and low as you want it, as long as you mix it as such... which they did not, sadly.

It's way more complicated. There seems to be some cancelation issues between analog base, synthetic, and the kick. the engineer had probably no clue how to solve it at the time. there really is a roll-off below 100Hz. you can boost a ton and make the bass appear but this is only halve the work since the already lacking midrange will be buried in bass, so you need to rebalance the whole thing.
I worked on this today and actually uploaded a version to Youtube but decided I wasn't really satisfied yet. I will actually restart from scratch this weekend cause I feel I learned so much that I can make better doing it again. If you want to hear the "beta-version" I ended up creating today: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1oG4fvD0X2I5bu6n3a2t8jTXHlZ8v_5x1/view?usp=sharing

 

[kemmler3D]

It's way more complicated. There seems to be some cancelation issues between analog base, synthetic, and the kick. the engineer had probably no clue how to solve it at the time. there really is a roll-off below 100Hz. you can boost a ton and make the bass appear but this is only halve the work since the already lacking midrange will be buried in bass, so you need to rebalance the whole thing.
I worked on this today and actually uploaded a version to Youtube but decided I wasn't really satisfied yet. I will actually restart from scratch this weekend cause I feel I learned so much that I can make better doing it again. If you want to hear the "beta-version" I ended up creating today: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1oG4fvD0X2I5bu6n3a2t8jTXHlZ8v_5x1/view?usp=sharing

Hmm, good progress here for sure, what's your approach? It does sound a little more compressed than I remember, but the bass is starting to come back to life... you might say it's been born a second time...

 

[dasdoing]

Hmm, good progress here for sure, what's your approach? It does sound a little more compressed than I remember, but the bass is starting to come back to life... you might say it's been born a second time...

the version is from the "Definite Collection" from 2019. Not sure if this is a remaster already. I didn't really cut dynamics at all, the mix is already dense af. There is a limiter cutting some transients, but those are mainly the ones I created in the process. LUFS value is pretty close.
The approach is learning by doing hehe; not sure what you are asking here hehe

 

[kemmler3D]

the version is from the "Definite Collection" from 2019. Not sure if this is a remaster already. I didn't really cut dynamics at all, the mix is already dense af. There is a limiter cutting some transients, but those are mainly the ones I created in the process. LUFS value is pretty close.
The approach is learning by doing hehe; not sure what you are asking here hehe

Well, like is this mostly EQ, multiband comp, did you demix it to stems somehow...

 

[levimax]

I have multiple versions of Exile on Main Street by the Rolling Stones and all of them sound dull / poor to me. Great album though.

 

[dasdoing]

Well, like is this mostly EQ, multiband comp, did you demix it to stems somehow...

Ozone 11 has a demix feature separating vocals/base/percussion but it doesn't really work on this song other than the vocals.
I used several modules from Ozone 11, Pro-Q 3, Gullfoss Master, Smart EQ, Smart Limit.
in short: there is LOTS of EQ, multi-band compression, several dynamic EQs (traditional and "AI assisted"), some work on the stereo field (though I feel there is a lot to gain on the sides which I didn't really spent much time on. those horns should be much more present and not so "out of phase"), and some gentle limiting.

 

[MRC01]

Most early Van Halen is lacking in drum definition and bass clarity.

Yes, and the remasters sound even worse. Heavily compressed, harsh, edgy, distorted. But they do sound even louder, which seems to have been the goal.

... Steve Wilson's mixes of the Yes catalogue have instruments with genuine sounding timbre. If only Going For The One could be salvaged.

Indeed it is a shame. The sonics of Going for the One are a hot mess. I wasted my money on the high-def remaster hoping it would be an improvement, but it was even worse than the original. I tried EQing it myself but reducing the treble, which it so desparately needs, just kills the vocals dead. It can't be fixed with tone controls, but needs a full remix.

... Unfortunately, the story is that the multitrack tape died and so Steven Wilson can't fix this one.

Tell me more...

 

[MRC01]

Rachmaninov: Piano Concerto No. 3; Prokofiev: Piano Concerto No. 2
Yuja Wang / Gustavo Dudamel
Simón Bolívar Symphony Orchestra of Venezuela
...

If you like the music, she played all 4 of them with Dudamel & the Los Angeles Phil in the Disney Hall on Deutsche Grammophon, just recently published, and they sound good to me.

Qobuz

Listen to your music in high quality

play.qobuz.com

 

[ErVikingo]

Most Rush albums; Marillion's latest (An Hour Before Its Dark); big Shooting Star fan and the recordings lack. Many other samples.....

 

[GD Fan]

Stephen Stills 2 has some great songs but the sound quality is very uneven.

 

[Sokel]

Purple rain is imho one of the greatest albums ever but sounds kind of congested. Not sure how to explain.

If you ever want to know the source to this album search for Savoy Brown - Savage Return (you'll instantly recognize the "Don't do it,baby do it" song) .
Not my kind of music but I always appreciate simple clean groups making a nice full sound (I believe it's only three of them) .

 

[MRC01]

Most Rush albums; Marillion's latest (An Hour Before Its Dark); big Shooting Star fan and the recordings lack. Many other samples.....

Most of Rush's albums from the 1970s through the 1980s are better engineered than average for the Rock genre, but admittedly that's not saying much. They are bright with midrange focused voicing, but they have good clarity, not compressed or distorted. The bass is there even if attenuated. These can be salvaged with simple tone controls, tilt it warmer to taste. Moving Pictures sounds downright awesome with that tone tilt.

I've hoped that Steven Wilson would remix all the early Rush albums up through and including Moving Pictures. I read that he did remix Farewell to Kings, which could certainly use some improvement, but to me, it didn't sound like a Steven Wilson remix.

Signals is unique, with a smoother creamier less bright sound yet without being veiled. And to a lesser extent Power Windows. Not my favorite musically but the sonics are good if not great.

I can't comment on albums between Power Windows & Vapor Trails. I only listened to them once and didn't like them.

Snakes & Arrows is compressed with more bass, yet also sounding edgy and crispy crunchy, not an improvement. Clockwork Angels is another exception. Dark and warm voicing, it has so much bass it masks the rest of the music. But it doesn't sound distorted, just tilt the bass down 3-6 dB to taste and it sounds OK, not only more clear but also a bit more dynamic. I think this album is one of their best and they went out on a high note.

Another point in Rush's favor is they didn't squash the music with heavy compression in the recent high-def remasters. They sound similar to the originals, with just a bit smoother midrange.

 

[ErVikingo]

Most of Rush's albums from the 1970s through the 1980s are better engineered than average for the Rock genre, but admittedly that's not saying much. They are bright with midrange focused voicing, but they have good clarity, not compressed or distorted. The bass is there even if attenuated. These can be salvaged with simple tone controls, tilt it warmer to taste. Moving Pictures sounds downright awesome with that tone tilt.

I've hoped that Steven Wilson would remix all the early Rush albums up through and including Moving Pictures. I read that he did remix Farewell to Kings, which could certainly use some improvement, but to me, it didn't sound like a Steven Wilson remix.

Signals is unique, with a smoother creamier less bright sound yet without being veiled. And to a lesser extent Power Windows. Not my favorite musically but the sonics are good if not great.

I can't comment on albums between Power Windows & Vapor Trails. I only listened to them once and didn't like them.

Snakes & Arrows is compressed with more bass, yet also sounding edgy and crispy crunchy, not an improvement. Clockwork Angels is another exception. Dark and warm voicing, it has so much bass it masks the rest of the music. But it doesn't sound distorted, just tilt the bass down 3-6 dB to taste and it sounds OK, not only more clear but also a bit more dynamic. I think this album is one of their best and they went out on a high note.

Another point in Rush's favor is they didn't squash the music with heavy compression in the recent high-def remasters. They sound similar to the originals, with just a bit smoother midrange.

Thanks for your detailed reply! As an example of what I alude to, I have tried to listed to Passage to Bangkok in various different systems. I find that frequency response is good but on systems with good soundstage (for other recordings and music) it sounds like Geddy is trapped inside a small can behind the stage.

Happens at home on both of my rooms/systems, at a couple of friend's rooms also. When i play it with headphones it sounds great. Have you had that experience?

The Steven Wilson remaster of Farewell is a 5.1 surround recording thus I have not tried it. I have a 5.1 capable system (mine is 7.2 but I can choose).

Not sure if you are a Shooting Star fan, could you try and comment on Last Chance?

I have a good story regarding Rush. One day driving up to the amphiteatre for a Rush concert I stopped for gas. I am a motorcycle fan and there was a fellow BMW rider. I commented on how neat his bike was. He looks up and it was Neil Peart! Very cool guy. RIP Ghost Rider

 

[Sal1950]

Indeed it is a shame. The sonics of Going for the One are a hot mess. I wasted my money on the high-def remaster hoping it would be an improvement, but it was even worse than the original.

I blame the analog mixing consoles of the time, packed full with a million cheap op-amps and
other bad sounding early SS circuits..