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GR Research LGK 2.0 Speaker Review (A Joke)
- Thread starter amirm
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Newman
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Of course, that’s no secret. But a speaker is described by its actual size, and its acoustic size is whatever it turns out to be, always somewhat less. If we are talking about the 3-inch driver in the LGK, then we can talk about the 5-inch driver in the OGY, for comparison and consistency.
At 100 percent distourtion (we just imagine its only h2) the bassman plays always the base note and a octave higher the same loud...if iam not wrong??
We end up with mud. So if people think this smaller driver give a faster more precise bass, they are just wrong. They give just more mud. At least at a listening level over a mouse fart. Maybe thats a reason why many studios had 15 inch drivers in there midfields. They loved bass players.
. Just imagine Lemmy had to listen to him in the studio over this speakers. I not liked to be that technician. At 84db he would say I cant hear me playing and at 96db he would say thats not me i never play two notes the same time!
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Is it possible to make a video that would be able to get this across with specific examples of what these distortions sounds like?
Like describing it and saying "This is the sound sample of that distortion playing this vocal and this instrument" So as everyone knows now what to look for when auditoning speakers and looking for what "Break up" really is? Or what Muddiness sounds like with examples?
Like what makes a good tweeter sound like a good tweeter or what constitues a bad one with sound sample clips instead of just words or graphs? They are cool to loot at an all. But Something like this that goes over learning how to listen for these problem areas in speakers or in this case the 3 inch driver would be much more helpful to weed out bad drivers and such.
Maybe its my bias, its just Really hard for me to conceptualize that something that can look fairly good, has such outright flaws. It almost sounds like this is a driver that has issues with its construction. Like the surround not being glued on right, and makes a buzzing as certain frequencies. Or has coil rub. Those things I can clearly hear and even identify as a problem with the speaker driver.
To me this sounds like this driver does not do a very good job at even being a midrange. Let alone a "Full range driver".
Sounds like it has the performace of a 3 inch amazon special 2 for $10 buck computer speaker.
I really am suspect to speaker reviews since often (Someone mentioned the logitech speakers) Others RAVED about it. And I always thought they sucked. In fact, those little drivers sounded just the same as those House brand Cyber acoustic speakers for $20 bucks sitting next to them minus the Bass output. They always sounded stressed. How they got a THX rating is beyond me and I don't put stock in that click bait certification shit anymore either due to that.
I also find it REALLY alarming that other people who seem to have the chops to seem to know how to listen to a speaker, seem to all miss these glaring faults when others seem to notice them right off the bat.
I just don't get it. How can so many people buy these and say they are so great in the numbers they are sold, when so many here like Amir is able to pick these things out and identify them like they were a punch to the face. You know you got punched. There is no denying it. Even if you had your eyes closed, you KNOW you got a fist to the face. So how is it so many people just miss these details?
That's why I think it would be a good idea to go over these faults in more detail to help dispel any notion of facts vs feelings vs Bias. As they say, if these things can be heard and measured, giving an example of them would really help future consumers find these faults in drivers and be able to point them out without second guessing themselves as this is indeed a problem that I think many people do face and not just me.
I fully get the speaker as designed is not a very good choice for desktop full range use unless you listen to very low levels. But what I seem to be hearing is that this driver does not sound good even if you used in in a typical 2.1 setup. Or has about the same sound quality as a OEM 3 inch midrange in the dash of a car. Or less so as this drivers has such audible noise problems.
I got a measurement microphone and recorded SPL levels of 93 dB in my car at the dash. When about 1 inch from the drivers, it was 96 or so. But I still heard this resonance at midrange frequencies at certain frequency bands and test tones. I'm thinking that this would be the same thing Amir is describing. So its worries me Danny would let a driver like that out the door with his reputation of knowing how to design a speaker drivers and after listening tests he said he does. That REALLY makes me very suspicious of his claims that his raw drivers are top notch.
If these drivers are used near field like on a desktop? Your going to hear all that stuff. And I think anyone could. I am in disbelief they can be this bad out the door. They HAVE to have something wrong with them I would assume.
If I'm reading these graphs and measurements correctly, it sounds like this speaker has that cheap nasal mid bass sound like you would get from Kmart bookshelf systems that the hole on the top and a fake cassette deck.
It has to have some good sound quality attributes right? Something that its good at? So what is it really? I just find it so far out that so many other people gave it rave reviews, and no one mentioned these obvious flaws when they listened to it. I hope you guys understand what I'm getting at. Either everyone is just waxing their carrot. Or they really have zero clue what a good speaker sounds like.
What really scares me is that if New Record day heard them, and he did not find all these flaws with music being played? Does that mean that the overwhelming majority of people really can't tell that this speaker has all the credibility of a diploma mill when auditioning these speakers?
Worse still? Anyone who ever heard this speaker and gave it high marks, then goes on to give reviews on signal sources, cables, CD players or any audio electronics out there and says they can tell the diffrence but can't even find these glaring faults with this is giving sound quality recommendations?
And some of these people are telling us they can hear CABLES?
I'm starting to think the reason why more women are not into audio is not the boys club. Rather, they don't seem to be so keen to Bullshit IMO when it comes to their hard earned cash.
The science says they have better hearing overall compared to men durings X,Y's lifetimes in the critical audible ranges, and suffer from hearing deterioration far less than the male population.
What bothers me more is that if its all a ruse? Kind of like the guy who stacks socks in his gym shorts becase he wants to SAY his in the Subway foot long club if you get my drift. Or the dude we all knew in Highschool that said he scored with all the girls, when the only person that touched him was his right hand.
I'm getting this weird feeling that there are a LOT of posers out there.
in summary,
if Amir can hear these things and Danny is unable to identify these problems in speakers/drivers that as far as I can tell, he approved the specifications and makeup and construction of for sale?
it feels like Superman just died. Sorry, but it does.
That's assuming a recording through a mic of speakers can accurately convey their positive & negative attributes to a great enough degree of accuracy when captured by said mic and then played back on god-knows-who speakers in god-knows-who room or on god-knows-who headphones with or without god-knows-who EQ.......I'm not sure how accurate such recordings & playbacks can be vs actually listening to the speaker yourself - I expect you could lose a whole lot of fidelity/reality in that whole recording with mic & playback process.Is it possible to make a video that would be able to get this across with specific examples of what these distortions sounds like?
Like describing it and saying "This is the sound sample of that distortion playing this vocal and this instrument" So as everyone knows now what to look for when auditoning speakers and looking for what "Break up" really is? Or what Muddiness sounds like with examples?
Like what makes a good tweeter sound like a good tweeter or what constitues a bad one with sound sample clips instead of just words or graphs? They are cool to loot at an all. But Something like this that goes over learning how to listen for these problem areas in speakers or in this case the 3 inch driver would be much more helpful to weed out bad drivers and such.
Maybe its my bias, its just Really hard for me to conceptualize that something that can look fairly good, has such outright flaws. It almost sounds like this is a driver that has issues with its construction. Like the surround not being glued on right, and makes a buzzing as certain frequencies. Or has coil rub. Those things I can clearly hear and even identify as a problem with the speaker driver.
To me this sounds like this driver does not do a very good job at even being a midrange. Let alone a "Full range driver".
Sounds like it has the performace of a 3 inch amazon special 2 for $10 buck computer speaker.
I really am suspect to speaker reviews since often (Someone mentioned the logitech speakers) Others RAVED about it. And I always thought they sucked. In fact, those little drivers sounded just the same as those House brand Cyber acoustic speakers for $20 bucks sitting next to them minus the Bass output. They always sounded stressed. How they got a THX rating is beyond me and I don't put stock in that click bait certification shit anymore either due to that.
I also find it REALLY alarming that other people who seem to have the chops to seem to know how to listen to a speaker, seem to all miss these glaring faults when others seem to notice them right off the bat.
I just don't get it. How can so many people buy these and say they are so great in the numbers they are sold, when so many here like Amir is able to pick these things out and identify them like they were a punch to the face. You know you got punched. There is no denying it. Even if you had your eyes closed, you KNOW you got a fist to the face. So how is it so many people just miss these details?
That's why I think it would be a good idea to go over these faults in more detail to help dispel any notion of facts vs feelings vs Bias. As they say, if these things can be heard and measured, giving an example of them would really help future consumers find these faults in drivers and be able to point them out without second guessing themselves as this is indeed a problem that I think many people do face and not just me.
I fully get the speaker as designed is not a very good choice for desktop full range use unless you listen to very low levels. But what I seem to be hearing is that this driver does not sound good even if you used in in a typical 2.1 setup. Or has about the same sound quality as a OEM 3 inch midrange in the dash of a car. Or less so as this drivers has such audible noise problems.
I got a measurement microphone and recorded SPL levels of 93 dB in my car at the dash. When about 1 inch from the drivers, it was 96 or so. But I still heard this resonance at midrange frequencies at certain frequency bands and test tones. I'm thinking that this would be the same thing Amir is describing. So its worries me Danny would let a driver like that out the door with his reputation of knowing how to design a speaker drivers and after listening tests he said he does. That REALLY makes me very suspicious of his claims that his raw drivers are top notch.
If these drivers are used near field like on a desktop? Your going to hear all that stuff. And I think anyone could. I am in disbelief they can be this bad out the door. They HAVE to have something wrong with them I would assume.
If I'm reading these graphs and measurements correctly, it sounds like this speaker has that cheap nasal mid bass sound like you would get from Kmart bookshelf systems that the hole on the top and a fake cassette deck.
It has to have some good sound quality attributes right? Something that its good at? So what is it really? I just find it so far out that so many other people gave it rave reviews, and no one mentioned these obvious flaws when they listened to it. I hope you guys understand what I'm getting at. Either everyone is just waxing their carrot. Or they really have zero clue what a good speaker sounds like.
What really scares me is that if New Record day heard them, and he did not find all these flaws with music being played? Does that mean that the overwhelming majority of people really can't tell that this speaker has all the credibility of a diploma mill when auditioning these speakers?
Worse still? Anyone who ever heard this speaker and gave it high marks, then goes on to give reviews on signal sources, cables, CD players or any audio electronics out there and says they can tell the diffrence but can't even find these glaring faults with this is giving sound quality recommendations?
And some of these people are telling us they can hear CABLES?
I'm starting to think the reason why more women are not into audio is not the boys club. Rather, they don't seem to be so keen to Bullshit IMO when it comes to their hard earned cash.
The science says they have better hearing overall compared to men durings X,Y's lifetimes in the critical audible ranges, and suffer from hearing deterioration far less than the male population.
What bothers me more is that if its all a ruse? Kind of like the guy who stacks socks in his gym shorts becase he wants to SAY his in the Subway foot long club if you get my drift. Or the dude we all knew in Highschool that said he scored with all the girls, when the only person that touched him was his right hand.
I'm getting this weird feeling that there are a LOT of posers out there.
in summary,
if Amir can hear these things and Danny is unable to identify these problems in speakers/drivers that as far as I can tell, he approved the specifications and makeup and construction of for sale?
it feels like Superman just died. Sorry, but it does.
It makes only sense if you switch AB than you can hear at least the relative differences. With thd this should work fine. Tonality is more problematic couse the listening room plays into, but relative differences are still good to hear. Or in other words if Amir switches AB at 90dB between this and his revell, you should get a good relative impression. But i dont think amir is motivated to do this, what i absolutly understand.
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I see where you're coming from, but I'm thinking the whole mic -> recording -> playback on unknown speakers/rooms/headphones could obscure finer points such as distortion recognition, regardless of A/B'ing recordings of perfect vs ****** speakers.
I dont get you. I not talk about fine points, what ever they should be. Comparing this speakers at 90db is not about fine points, its about a lot of bass distourten. My post was only a reaction on @iMickey503 post. The last think i like to start is how usefull yt ab comparisons are at finer level. But i think even at yt you can hear a difference between a cowbell and a bassdrum.
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You are making the assumption that one guy is being 100% honest and not just trying to sell stuff
In fact Danny is not even the inventor of the Kanspea style ( Easy Speaker in japanese)...
Fostex P800E DIY Kanspea 3" Full Range Speaker Kit - PAIR: Madisound Speaker Components, Inc.
Fostex 3" Full Range Speaker Kit Pair. Complete kit with pre-assembled cabinets.www.madisoundspeakerstore.com
Then what is the Reference standard headphone and listening setup? Surely with today technology and knowledge this has been thought of so that they can remotely convey an experience to another in today modern day and age with some kind of industry standard?
I'm sure those Specialists in the field of Audiologists have pondered this at least sometime in their field of medicine if they are diagnosing hearing issues so they can make a legal verified and liable claim of diagnosis for said medical diagnosis with some kind of universal industry approved reference standard? Or maybe the RIAA or AES or someone must have thought about this already? Some of those recording engineers must do remote work right?
The reason why I cry foul about this idea that "you can't hear this " is that people can tell the difference in sounds over a POTS telephone that has a bandwidth that is less than AM radio. 911 operators can deduce a surprising amount of information of a call. So So there's plenty to notice. Even with limited bandwidth and crummy reproduction devices. The onus really is on the trained listener IMO.
~180hz - 3.2Khz Apx.
A better test of hearing details would be to hear a voice you know or care about. Say my Niece yesterday for example. About 30 humans of various ages on the school playground. Lots of background noise. And even with all that, 250 or so feet away, I can pick out and hear Clearly as day when she says "Uncle" no matter what and can home in and pinpoint where that squeaky shrimps voice comes from.
I can even pick out charatrists if she is in any sort of distress in her voice when said "Uncle" is heard or a scream depending on pitch being "Oh shit" or "Its nothing, shes fine". I have not tested it. But I could make out at least her voice over a cell phone that has slighty higher bandwidth to ~7Khz.
Unless your microphone has the fidelity of an AM radio? I think anyone with any competency and a microphone on a modern cell phone should be able to showcase these said distortions that are indeed audible.
Erin just put up a video where he did a Blind listening test of 3 different speakers. Anyone can tell they sound different even over youtube.
Since the goal is not to hear Ben folds farting on his CD, we are here to HEAR distortions in Ben Folds Farting while he plays the piano and Distortions of said farts in the Speakers on playback. It should be easy to reproduce flaws in the playback that we can pick out with these with test. Even on sub par gear if they are indeed audible. (That or the electrostatics were making their own fart noises)
Otherwise? Measurement Microphones are a meme. And the the ones that cost big money is just buying tone. Not detail. So there goes the audio business. We can just use iPhones from now on. Dig?
We have some Serious bonafide hard as nails die hard booth junkies in here. I'm pretty sure with all that brain power and experience something can be hatched out.
A good reference would be what Alexa sounds like in case you have no freinds to compare drivers or distortion. File included bellow. You can tell and HEAR distortion at FULL tilt. Even with the music being full of it. You can hear the drivers not doing their job of signal in, signal out. Enjoy my Ugly Tax payer funded grill and this distortion riddled music.
3 examples are given. And on my system in my car? I can hear the microphone preamp/ DA noise FAINTLY that I can not hear on my headphones. Maybe its just me? But its a direct to digital recording with the O.G. Files. You can inspect them for playback quality.
And thats with just commodity gear anyone can get. I suspect many of us have better gear then the rest of the public.
Fuck I type to much.
EDIT. Zip file is to large. Posting Youtube videos.
DASH
Test of each driver where you can hear break up and sound of each driver at point blank range. (1- 3 inches away from grill or speaker. )
ASUS CP101a Hot built in stereo microphone with AGC compared to UMM-6
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Is it just me that thinks Danny would not lie? Or is it just me. I'm thinking its just me at this point.
nyxnyxnyx
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Honestly, I unironically want to try this just to know how it sounds like.
The type of distortion and crackling can easily be heard. Not too much to learn there. Crackling, bottoming out and driving above its design limits are fairly easy to hear. These are all very large problems. Other stuff is much harder to hear. I listened to Erin's tests from his site and my TV speakers could not resolve the differences. I thought A was the best but in the end, it was a total crap shoot. So much for high quality LG TV speakers!
MacCali
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That’s what a vapor ware sales man does my man. Sells you lies.. you know the next thing he’ll say even though it don’t got a crossover is that you need to upgrade that xDIs it possible to make a video that would be able to get this across with specific examples of what these distortions sounds like?
Like describing it and saying "This is the sound sample of that distortion playing this vocal and this instrument" So as everyone knows now what to look for when auditoning speakers and looking for what "Break up" really is? Or what Muddiness sounds like with examples?
Like what makes a good tweeter sound like a good tweeter or what constitues a bad one with sound sample clips instead of just words or graphs? They are cool to loot at an all. But Something like this that goes over learning how to listen for these problem areas in speakers or in this case the 3 inch driver would be much more helpful to weed out bad drivers and such.
Maybe its my bias, its just Really hard for me to conceptualize that something that can look fairly good, has such outright flaws. It almost sounds like this is a driver that has issues with its construction. Like the surround not being glued on right, and makes a buzzing as certain frequencies. Or has coil rub. Those things I can clearly hear and even identify as a problem with the speaker driver.
To me this sounds like this driver does not do a very good job at even being a midrange. Let alone a "Full range driver".
Sounds like it has the performace of a 3 inch amazon special 2 for $10 buck computer speaker.
I really am suspect to speaker reviews since often (Someone mentioned the logitech speakers) Others RAVED about it. And I always thought they sucked. In fact, those little drivers sounded just the same as those House brand Cyber acoustic speakers for $20 bucks sitting next to them minus the Bass output. They always sounded stressed. How they got a THX rating is beyond me and I don't put stock in that click bait certification shit anymore either due to that.
I also find it REALLY alarming that other people who seem to have the chops to seem to know how to listen to a speaker, seem to all miss these glaring faults when others seem to notice them right off the bat.
I just don't get it. How can so many people buy these and say they are so great in the numbers they are sold, when so many here like Amir is able to pick these things out and identify them like they were a punch to the face. You know you got punched. There is no denying it. Even if you had your eyes closed, you KNOW you got a fist to the face. So how is it so many people just miss these details?
That's why I think it would be a good idea to go over these faults in more detail to help dispel any notion of facts vs feelings vs Bias. As they say, if these things can be heard and measured, giving an example of them would really help future consumers find these faults in drivers and be able to point them out without second guessing themselves as this is indeed a problem that I think many people do face and not just me.
I fully get the speaker as designed is not a very good choice for desktop full range use unless you listen to very low levels. But what I seem to be hearing is that this driver does not sound good even if you used in in a typical 2.1 setup. Or has about the same sound quality as a OEM 3 inch midrange in the dash of a car. Or less so as this drivers has such audible noise problems.
I got a measurement microphone and recorded SPL levels of 93 dB in my car at the dash. When about 1 inch from the drivers, it was 96 or so. But I still heard this resonance at midrange frequencies at certain frequency bands and test tones. I'm thinking that this would be the same thing Amir is describing. So its worries me Danny would let a driver like that out the door with his reputation of knowing how to design a speaker drivers and after listening tests he said he does. That REALLY makes me very suspicious of his claims that his raw drivers are top notch.
If these drivers are used near field like on a desktop? Your going to hear all that stuff. And I think anyone could. I am in disbelief they can be this bad out the door. They HAVE to have something wrong with them I would assume.
If I'm reading these graphs and measurements correctly, it sounds like this speaker has that cheap nasal mid bass sound like you would get from Kmart bookshelf systems that the hole on the top and a fake cassette deck.
It has to have some good sound quality attributes right? Something that its good at? So what is it really? I just find it so far out that so many other people gave it rave reviews, and no one mentioned these obvious flaws when they listened to it. I hope you guys understand what I'm getting at. Either everyone is just waxing their carrot. Or they really have zero clue what a good speaker sounds like.
What really scares me is that if New Record day heard them, and he did not find all these flaws with music being played? Does that mean that the overwhelming majority of people really can't tell that this speaker has all the credibility of a diploma mill when auditioning these speakers?
Worse still? Anyone who ever heard this speaker and gave it high marks, then goes on to give reviews on signal sources, cables, CD players or any audio electronics out there and says they can tell the diffrence but can't even find these glaring faults with this is giving sound quality recommendations?
And some of these people are telling us they can hear CABLES?
I'm starting to think the reason why more women are not into audio is not the boys club. Rather, they don't seem to be so keen to Bullshit IMO when it comes to their hard earned cash.
The science says they have better hearing overall compared to men durings X,Y's lifetimes in the critical audible ranges, and suffer from hearing deterioration far less than the male population.
What bothers me more is that if its all a ruse? Kind of like the guy who stacks socks in his gym shorts becase he wants to SAY his in the Subway foot long club if you get my drift. Or the dude we all knew in Highschool that said he scored with all the girls, when the only person that touched him was his right hand.
I'm getting this weird feeling that there are a LOT of posers out there.
in summary,
if Amir can hear these things and Danny is unable to identify these problems in speakers/drivers that as far as I can tell, he approved the specifications and makeup and construction of for sale?
it feels like Superman just died. Sorry, but it does.
Or buy his rhodium plated speaker terminals
Some bs for certain or he just enjoys listening to whispers in a closet where these speakers shine the most
I did the test and think the samples were the same speaker but room placement was different
I wondered about that...
There is one legendary Czech audiophile, DIY producer of cables and such stuff, claiming to hear difference between different types of wood on which his turntable is placed, and such shit. Or directivity of fuses (obviously HUGE difference, veils removed, bass tightens, you know the drill).
Anyway long story short, he got a visit, and after 15 seconds of listening it was clear, that one tweeter is gone, probably for some time already. Since then, any mention of this incident gets you banned on every audiophile forum.
(As he obviously is “friend of friends”)
So much for Golden Ears. Men in their early sixties, hearing probably up to 10kHz and claiming, that they hear difference between file stored on HDD or SSD drive (for real)
Anyway long story short, he got a visit, and after 15 seconds of listening it was clear, that one tweeter is gone, probably for some time already. Since then, any mention of this incident gets you banned on every audiophile forum.
(As he obviously is “friend of friends”)
So much for Golden Ears. Men in their early sixties, hearing probably up to 10kHz and claiming, that they hear difference between file stored on HDD or SSD drive (for real)
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Well, why don't you bake a pie and invite folks over to listen to your speakers? And then hope that one of your guests does the same. I wish to experience the Hi-Fi hobby that way.
I would gladly have some people over to experience my "3% distortion tube amplifier with full range transmission line speakers". I'm that guy. And you can tell me it sucks too! My ego won't be bruised LOL.
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