• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

GR Research B24 AC Cord Review

Rate this AC Cable

  • 1. Waste of money (piggy bank panther)

    Votes: 377 95.4%
  • 2. Not terrible (postman panther)

    Votes: 4 1.0%
  • 3. Fine (happy panther

    Votes: 1 0.3%
  • 4. Great (golfing panther)

    Votes: 13 3.3%

  • Total voters
    395

SIY

Grand Contributor
Technical Expert
Joined
Apr 6, 2018
Messages
10,747
Likes
25,858
Location
Alfred, NY

DualTriode

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Oct 24, 2019
Messages
909
Likes
599
Lol, what? You can absolutely do double blind at home.

Okay, sure do Double Blind Testing at home. Your sample size will way to small for any statistical significance.

Your results are likely due to chance or you peaked.

If it is fun go ahead, just don't be surprised if someone laughs at your results.

LOL
 

Audiomn

Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Apr 27, 2022
Messages
61
Likes
51
Okay, sure do Double Blind Testing at home. Your sample size will way to small for any statistical significance.

Your results are likely due to chance or you peaked.

If it is fun go ahead, just don't be surprised if someone laughs at your results.

LOL
I’m not sure what you’re talking about or why people would laugh at me. Are you taking about a statistically significant double blind test? I’m not saying that’s easily doable at home. (Although I do have a lot of nerdy friends.)
 

DualTriode

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Oct 24, 2019
Messages
909
Likes
599
I’m not sure what you’re talking about or why people would laugh at me. Are you taking about a statistically significant double blind test? I’m not saying that’s easily doable at home. (Although I do have a lot of nerdy friends.)
Hello,

Now that I look, I see that you have 27 posts. I was a little harsh.

You and your nerdly friends go ahead on, do some audibility testing for fun.

Thanks DT
 

HarmonicTHD

Major Contributor
Joined
Mar 18, 2022
Messages
3,326
Likes
4,855
Okay, sure do Double Blind Testing at home. Your sample size will way to small for any statistical significance.

Your results are likely due to chance or you peaked.

If it is fun go ahead, just don't be surprised if someone laughs at your results.

LOL
We are still waiting for you to state the objective ie specific question to be answered by the experiment from you as SIY already pointed out.

Until then see the answer from Amir. Sure you can do DT with one person to determine if that one person can statistically reliably hear something or is just flipping a coin.

Harman studies answer a different question (objective) and are therefore designed differently. Yes here you need larger populations.
 

DualTriode

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Oct 24, 2019
Messages
909
Likes
599
We are still waiting for you to state the objective ie specific question to be answered by the experiment from you as SIY already pointed out.

Until then see the answer from Amir. Sure you can do DT with one person to determine if that one person can statistically reliably hear something or is just flipping a coin.

Harman studies answer a different question (objective) and are therefore designed differently. Yes here you need larger populations.

First off I assume that your purpose is to give me grief and not to ask me a knowledge question so I will be brief.

If we choose to study some characteristic of a defined population we need to determine what level of confidence is required, what level of error is acceptable and ideal sample size? There is an app for that.

Here is an example:

Population size is 100

Required level of confidence is 95%

Allowed Margin of error 5%

The idea sample size is 80. It only takes a couple of outliers to skew the results.



If @amirm asked a question it was about a population size of 1. So the only sample size is 1. This post was largely meant as a distraction. @mirm does not want to discourage ASR fun.

I made the general to specific statement that you cannot do statistically significant double blind studies at home. I should include the exception that the population being studied lives there. SIY attempted to obfuscate my statement by trying to redirect the conversation.

If meant for fun banter in ASR posts the rigors of defining population, level of confidence and margin of error does not matter so much. So have at it.



Thanks DT
 
Last edited:

voodooless

Grand Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jun 16, 2020
Messages
10,669
Likes
18,882
Location
Netherlands
If we choose to study some characteristic of a defined population
That’s your problem right there. You assume the wrong research question for the home DBT. It does not seek to say anything statistically about a population. Its only purpose is to see if the test taker can hear difference between de DUTs.

And in some cases, a sample size of 1 is enough to conclude something as well. If one person can statistically significant hear the difference between two 120 SINAD DACs, that still a relevant result and would warrant further investigation.
 

HarmonicTHD

Major Contributor
Joined
Mar 18, 2022
Messages
3,326
Likes
4,855
First off I assume that your purpose is to give me grief and not to ask me a knowledge question so I will be brief.

If we choose to study some characteristic of a defined population we need to determine what level of confidence is required, what level of error is acceptable and ideal sample size? There is an app for that.

Here is an example:

Population size is 100

Required level of confidence is 95%

Allowed Margin of error 5%

The idea sample size is 80. It only takes a couple of outliers to skew the results.



If @amirm asked a question it was about a population size of 1. So the only sample size is 1. This post was largely meant as a distraction. @mirm does not want to discourage ASR fun.

I made the general to specific statement that you cannot do statistically significant double blind studies at home. I should include the exception that the population being studied lives there. SIY attempted to obfuscate my statement by trying to redirect the conversation from specific to general.

If meant for fun banter in ASR posts the rigors of defining population, level of confidence and margin of error does not matter so much. So have at it.



Thanks DT
Again you are confusing two objectives or are unable to clearly state them and that alone casts doubt on your understanding.

What is it going to be?

Question A) Can one person hear statistically reliably differences? For this it only takes a population size of one and can easily be done at home taking a controlled test several times (many samples). The result is only valid for that population (person).

Question B). Can many or a majority of people either prefer something or hear a difference? For this it takes obviously many people (large population) each doing several controlled tests (samples). This is usually beyond an at home test for obvious reasons. The tests are valid for that population and within a certain confidence can be extrapolated to be valid for other people as well (example: Harman or Pharma studies).

This is what @SIY asked you to begin with. Is it a or b or something else. The objective determines the test design. And @amirm and the discussion clearly was about A).
 
Last edited:

Geert

Major Contributor
Joined
Mar 20, 2020
Messages
1,999
Likes
3,708
A) Can one person hear statistically reliably differences?
That's the question that started this discussion, reference:
On some days my audio lacks incisive clarity and I discovered if I add one of my modded extension cords using these replacement plugs things seem to brighten up.
All the rest is smoke and mirrors.
 

DualTriode

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Oct 24, 2019
Messages
909
Likes
599
A) one person can hear statistically reliably (takes several samples) differences. For this it only takes a population size of one and can easily be done at home. The result is only valid for that population (person).

B) a majority of (many) people either prefer or can hear a difference. For this it takes obviously many people (large population) each doing several tests (samples). This is usually beyond an at home test for obvious reason. The tests are valid for that population and within a certain confidence can be extrapolated to be valid for other people as well (best example: election polling).

This is what @SIY asked you to begin with. Is it a or b or something else. The objective determines the test design.
"If we choose to study some characteristic of a defined population we need to determine what level of confidence is required, what level of error is acceptable and ideal sample size? There is an app for that."

This statement covers both A and B above.

How do you accomplish Double Blind Testing on yourself at home.
How do you blind the experimenter?
How do you blind the test subject?

Sounds like Golden Ear circle logic to me.
 

HarmonicTHD

Major Contributor
Joined
Mar 18, 2022
Messages
3,326
Likes
4,855
"If we choose to study some characteristic of a defined population we need to determine what level of confidence is required, what level of error is acceptable and ideal sample size? There is an app for that."

This statement covers both A and B above.

How do you accomplish Double Blind Testing on yourself at home.
How do you blind the experimenter?
How do you blind the test subject?

Sounds like Golden Ear circle logic to me.
The discussion was about A) not B) as nobody said anything, but you, about studying a large population. This is just you trying to deflect (smoke and mirrors).

Many explained it to you already how it’s (A) done and many did it and I am not wasting more time as you clearly want to ignore it. Why you want to ignore it, I don’t know, but maybe it shatters the world of your beliefs that when you would do such a test as described in A) you would indeed not able to pass it and claim the differences you allegedly hear.
 
Last edited:

Geert

Major Contributor
Joined
Mar 20, 2020
Messages
1,999
Likes
3,708
How do you accomplish Double Blind Testing on yourself at home.
Using a recording of what you want to compare and software like Foobar ABX comperator.

And for a blind test (not double blind) which would be very insightful for the scenario that started the discussion, just have a second person switch cables.
 

DualTriode

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Oct 24, 2019
Messages
909
Likes
599
Many explained it to you already how it’s done and many did it and I am not wasting more time as you clearly want to ignore it. Why you want to ignore it, I don’t know, but maybe it shatters the world of your beliefs that when you would do such as test as described in A) you would indeed not able to pass it and claim the differences you allegedly hear.
As you describe, I have done that testing many times.
I have all the high tech equipment on my bench. AP, GRAS, ....
I have done all the A X B comparison testing, I know my preferences.

Thing is, it is still not Double Blind. Same as SIY, I grab my wife as she walks past the the door, "can you hear the difference"? "Yes dear".

The thing that I can reliably identify is noise.

I believe that there is a lot of peaking going on under the blindfold.

DT
 

HarmonicTHD

Major Contributor
Joined
Mar 18, 2022
Messages
3,326
Likes
4,855
As you describe, I have done that testing many times.
I have all the high tech equipment on my bench. AP, GRAS, ....
I have done all the A X B comparison testing, I know my preferences.

Thing is, it is still not Double Blind. Same as SIY, I grab my wife as she walks past the the door, "can you hear the difference"? "Yes dear".

The thing that I can reliably identify is noise.

I believe that there is a lot of peaking going on under the blindfold.

DT
Now you are going off on another tangent. “Cheating” would certainly invalidate any test and your wife (experimenter) not being blinded and suggesting there is a difference even invalidates the prerequisites for single blind (test subject). That doesn’t make it impossible to conduct it at home (single blind) and it is certainly possible to instruct the experimenter not to give away any telltales (remarks, sighs, facial expression) or even better leave the room before you enter it. It is not that complicated if you try a bit being honest with yourself.
 

SIY

Grand Contributor
Technical Expert
Joined
Apr 6, 2018
Messages
10,747
Likes
25,858
Location
Alfred, NY
Thing is, it is still not Double Blind. Same as SIY, I grab my wife as she walks past the the door, "can you hear the difference"? "Yes dear".
I have never grabbed your wife.

And you have no idea whatsoever what you're talking about. I don't say that for your sake (the Dunning Kruger is far too strong) but for the sake of anyone else who might take any of that nonsense seriously.
 

Geert

Major Contributor
Joined
Mar 20, 2020
Messages
1,999
Likes
3,708
your wife (experimenter) not being blinded and suggesting there is a difference
Want to involve your wife? Let her listen and you do the switching. She might not be an 'experienced listener' (pun intended), but she should be able to notice 'night and day differences' no? Well, from people who did so I know the outcome does not confirm the ussual 'she heard it from the kitchen' story.
 
Top Bottom