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General design stupidity

Palladium said:
Because these are full of unproductive people convincing other unproductive people otherwise.
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That makes sense for a few weeks, or a quarter at most. Where are the managers, or slightly higher folks to weed out some of these clowns after a little while?
 
mansr said:
I can't stand touchscreen remotes. Despite the name, they can't be operated by touch alone.
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The day logitech will come again with something like the Harmony 880 I'll buy 4 or 5 of them.
Moving sensor,buttons,device sequence,easy to use,learning by transmission or by list,etc.
Too bad they stopped those kind of remotes.
 
Sokel said:
The day logitech will come again with something like the Harmony 880 I'll buy 4 or 5 of them.
Moving sensor,buttons,device sequence,easy to use,learning by transmission or by list,etc.
Too bad they stopped those kind of remotes.
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Mine still works after 15 years. It's the only reason my wife can work our TV/HT system without me being there.

Rick "takes good care of it" Denney
 
rdenney said:
Mine still works after 15 years. It's the only reason my wife can work our TV/HT system without me being there.

Rick "takes good care of it" Denney
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Mine works too,I have every possible protection applied on it.
I hope it will appreciate it!:)
 
So companies are actually morons then? It's as simple as that? Scared to take risks, while also being stupid and making things uglier and less enticing than their previous stuff?

Interesting, very interesting how shareholders are also morons that don't kick some sense into the companies they invest in..

dasdoing said:
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dasdoing said:
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I actually think the example is way off the mark. The suppositions of what caused the Aztek is off and a couple decades late at least.

In 1970 or so GM had a worldwide market share of 63% of all cars sold. The head of the company decided that engineering and manufacturing knowledge was a commodity. There was also fear that growing larger would result in anti-trust issues with the US gov't. Along with the belief being so large they didn't need to make better cars, they just needed to squeeze the most profit out of them. Marketing was more important than what they were building to such people. As a result MBA's began to fill positions that once were filled with engineers or new positions to run things were put over engineers. Don Hackworth was one of those guys earning an MBA at Ohio State and then hiring on with GM. His management style was intentionally confrontational as that was his stated philosophy on management. Hard to make a good car when your confrontational boss doesn't understand engineering and darn well won't have you telling him about problems with a design.

The shame of it is GM had some of the best engineers and the most funds to work with of anybody in the car business those years. Another shame is GM's current CEO was mentored by Don Hackworth. He wasn't the only such guy of course much of GM was like that for a long time.
 
Blumlein 88 said:
I actually think the example is way off the mark. The suppositions of what caused the Aztek is off and a couple decades late at least.

In 1970 or so GM had a worldwide market share of 63% of all cars sold. The head of the company decided that engineering and manufacturing knowledge was a commodity. There was also fear that growing larger would result in anti-trust issues with the US gov't. Along with the belief being so large they didn't need to make better cars, they just needed to squeeze the most profit out of them. Marketing was more important than what they were building to such people. As a result MBA's began to fill positions that once were filled with engineers or new positions to run things were put over engineers. Don Hackworth was one of those guys earning an MBA at Ohio State and then hiring on with GM. His management style was intentionally confrontational as that was his stated philosophy on management. Hard to make a good car when your confrontational boss doesn't understand engineering and darn well won't have you telling him about problems with a design.

The shame of it is GM had some of the best engineers and the most funds to work with of anybody in the car business those years. Another shame is GM's current CEO was mentored by Don Hackworth. He wasn't the only such guy of course much of GM was like that for a long time.
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I do believe the Aztek is not a good example, since it's fame of beeing ugly is exagerated as f_ck, and it actually was only a fail because it was too early (kind of).
the arguments in the video are still valid
 
Blumlein 88 said:
I actually think the example is way off the mark. The suppositions of what caused the Aztek is off and a couple decades late at least.

In 1970 or so GM had a worldwide market share of 63% of all cars sold. The head of the company decided that engineering and manufacturing knowledge was a commodity. There was also fear that growing larger would result in anti-trust issues with the US gov't. Along with the belief being so large they didn't need to make better cars, they just needed to squeeze the most profit out of them. Marketing was more important than what they were building to such people. As a result MBA's began to fill positions that once were filled with engineers or new positions to run things were put over engineers. Don Hackworth was one of those guys earning an MBA at Ohio State and then hiring on with GM. His management style was intentionally confrontational as that was his stated philosophy on management. Hard to make a good car when your confrontational boss doesn't understand engineering and darn well won't have you telling him about problems with a design.

The shame of it is GM had some of the best engineers and the most funds to work with of anybody in the car business those years. Another shame is GM's current CEO was mentored by Don Hackworth. He wasn't the only such guy of course much of GM was like that for a long time.
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I was at Boeing when they payed McDonald Douglas to acquire them. The 30 year trajectory of being engineer led to MBA led and its tragic consequences has been interesting to watch from afar.
 
Can I presume that somewhere in these 27 pages people have mentioned the execrable move to touch screens in cars replacing physical knobs?

I'm two years in, driving a Honda Civic and I STILL have trouble navigating around the damn thing for simple tasks.
 
MattHooper said:
Can I presume that somewhere in these 27 pages people have mentioned the execrable move to touch screens in cars replacing physical knobs?

I'm two years in, driving a Honda Civic and I STILL have trouble navigating around the damn thing for simple tasks.
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somebodyelse said:
Don't worry. When you finally do get used to navigating it they'll change the layout with a firmware update.
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2022/0...y-are-worse-than-buttons-in-cars-study-finds/
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yep , now they don't have to design the UI/UX before shipping the car :) it's can be fudged in countless updates instead , it's saves a ton of time and money not having to comit to any button placement (or anny actuall buttons and cables for them) and it can be changed for good and bad later .. sadly.
This design paradigm is a trap
 
mansr said:
I can't stand touchscreen remotes. Despite the name, they can't be operated by touch alone.
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Had mixed success with touchscreen remotes for different devices, but where this should really be rolled back is in cars. Whoever designed this in the way it currently exists is, simply put, not completely sane in the brain. So you have a vehicle of 1 or more metric tonnes, driving at proper speed, more than enough kinetic energy to destroy things in its path, and now you want to adjust the interior temperature but you cannot do this anymore without taking your eyes of the road or at least not anymore with a brief look to find the correct button [1]. People should be punished when they favor fashion over safety, that's just immoral (not really a stretch imo, seeing philosophers even debate that SUVs are immoral [2]). I'm not advocating to get rid of touchscreens completely, but imo in cars for instance hardware buttons should remain for main functions.

[1] https://www.vibilagare.se/nyheter/physical-buttons-outperform-touchscreens-new-cars-test-finds
[2] https://www.jstor.org/stable/23562447
 
Button to unlock door a behind the previus door behind you :facepalm: the permanent "fix" was a note on the door no rerouting of the button
 
MattHooper said:
Can I presume that somewhere in these 27 pages people have mentioned the execrable move to touch screens in cars replacing physical knobs?

I'm two years in, driving a Honda Civic and I STILL have trouble navigating around the damn thing for simple tasks.
Click to expand...
Yes, I know I mentioned it somewhere back up there. It's part of the overall desire to make everything software-driven to avoid the expense of physical controls.

Rick "unsafe at any speed" Denney
 
You need to look at the screen to touch the spot that gives the function you want. With physical knobs & switches, you can feel which one you want without looking, avoiding the chance for an accident. With the touch display, it would be best to manipulate it while stopped at a traffic light.
 
Did I already mention "download applications" I'm shopping HD-tracks rigth now , a thing your browser did just fine for decades , now in the form of a cluncy app that does it far worse and bloated :rolleyes:o_O:facepalm: cant be justified unless it's also spyware then i understand .
 
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