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Genelec SAM system wireless volume control

Sancus

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#2
Oh it allows group change, that sounds handy. Your best bet is probably to email Genelec.

I have to admit though for the ~$100 USD price I've always thought these remotes looked pretty cheap haha.
 

richard12511

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#4
Oh it allows group change, that sounds handy. Your best bet is probably to email Genelec.

I have to admit though for the ~$100 USD price I've always thought these remotes looked pretty cheap haha.
Does group change allow you to switch between different target curves, even with the same set of speakers? It seems to work some of the time, but I've got 5 or 6 different curves I've attempted, but when I measure with REW, I seem to only get 2-3 distinct measurements.
 

Sancus

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#5
Does group change allow you to switch between different target curves, even with the same set of speakers? It seems to work some of the time, but I've got 5 or 6 different curves I've attempted, but when I measure with REW, I seem to only get 2-3 distinct measurements.
I guess I could measure to check but that is effort :p Based on what the UI shows(both the sound character profiler, and the shelf filters in the "Acoustic Editor" on each of the monitors, which implement the target curve) yes, swapping is supposed to change the target curve.

If it's not working, that sounds like it might be a bug that needs to be reported to Genelec, could be a new GLM4 issue.
 

richard12511

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#6
I guess I could measure to check but that is effort :p Based on what the UI shows(both the sound character profiler, and the shelf filters in the "Acoustic Editor" on each of the monitors, which implement the target curve) yes, swapping is supposed to change the target curve.

If it's not working, that sounds like it might be a bug that needs to be reported to Genelec, could be a new GLM4 issue.
Yeah the GLM UI showed the curves as different, but when I measured in REW, they were all(except 1) mostly the same. When you get time, I would try doing a MMM with REW and check. Below are my MMM results(hopefully labeled enough to tell you what each measurement is).

GLM Target Curves-min.jpg


As you can see, the Manual -7 curve results in everything being shelved down 1dB or so below 2.5kHz(relative to the orange "GLM Off" curve). All of the other target curves measure oddly the same, and all result in the response above 1kHz or so being shelved up 1dB. Part of the reason I abandoned GLM was because I couldn't find a target curve that didn't either shelve the treble up or shelve the treble down, and as far as I can tell, there is no way to limit the correction to a certain frequency range(like you can with Audyssey or Dirac). I think the overall treble/mid/bass balance is perfect out of the box, so I don't want to change the actual spectral balance. I just want to smooth it out.

At the time(a couple weeks) ago, I chalked it up to me not understanding the purpose of groups, or some other user error. I'm still not sure that's not what it is, so I'm hesitant to submit a bug report. I'll probably check it out again this weekend and then reach out to Genelec if I see similar behavior.
 
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zym1010

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#7
Yeah the GLM UI showed the curves as different, but when I measured in REW, they were all(except 1) mostly the same. When you get time, I would try doing a MMM with REW and check. Below are my MMM results(hopefully labeled enough to tell you what each measurement is).

View attachment 105424

As you can see, the Manual -7 curve results in everything being shelved down 1dB or so below 2.5kHz(relative to the orange "GLM Off" curve). All of the other target curves measure oddly the same, and all result in the response above 1kHz or so being shelved up 1dB. Part of the reason I abandoned GLM was because I couldn't find a target curve that didn't either shelve the treble up or shelve the treble down, and as far as I can tell, there is no way to limit the correction to a certain frequency range(like you can with Audyssey or Dirac). I think the overall treble/mid/bass balance is perfect out of the box, so I don't want to change the actual spectral balance. I just want to smooth it out.

At the time(a couple weeks) ago, I chalked it up to me not understanding the purpose of groups, or some other user error. I'm still not sure that's not what it is, so I'm hesitant to submit a bug report. I'll probably check it out again this weekend and then reach out to Genelec if I see similar behavior.
I think I tried different curves before, and there is an audible difference. Maybe my curve differences are too big?
 

richard12511

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#8
I think I tried different curves before, and there is an audible difference. Maybe my curve differences are too big?
Did you observe measured differences? If so, what program did you use?
 

zym1010

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#9
Did you observe measured differences? If so, what program did you use?
not sure about "measured" differences unless you count my ears in...

maybe the different group settings are too different in my case. the audible difference is so big, of same magnitude as turning GLM on/off.
 

zym1010

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#10
UPDATE: the remote does work, but one has to press the button so hard and right in its middle, using fingernails. It's very difficult to use as if it's broken.

In addition, the profile switching buttons work with GLM3 (not sure about GLM4, which is too unstable for my taste)


-----------------------------------------

My order arrived, and the remote seems broken. Tried multiple batteries and multiple attempts of pairing. Very occasionally the "mute/unmute" button worked and that's all.

IMG_1667.JPG
 
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richard12511

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#11
UPDATE: the remote does work, but one has to press the button so hard and right in its middle, using fingernails. It's very difficult to use as if it's broken.

-----------------------------------------

My order arrived, and the remote seems broken. Tried multiple batteries and multiple attempts of pairing. Very occasionally the "mute/unmute" button worked and that's all.

View attachment 105895
Hmmm, I would ask for another. That doesn't sound right.

*Edit: I know Genelec reads these forums, perhaps one of them could chime in to help(don't know who to tag).
 
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richard12511

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#12
not sure about "measured" differences unless you count my ears in...

maybe the different group settings are too different in my case. the audible difference is so big, of same magnitude as turning GLM on/off.
Ears don't count ;). Well, maybe they do, but only when not influenced by the eyes/brain :p. I'm quite sure -5 and -6 manual slopes will sound different in a sighted comparison, but I'm wondering if the same is true blinded, as REW says they're exactly the same.

Was actually hoping to test the GLM4 target curves again today to see if I could duplicate the buggy behavior(ie .5dB/oct, 1dB/oct, man-5,-6, and 4dB hf slope all measuring the same) I was seeing last week, but it seems it was not meant to be. The head on my mic popped off while moving the mic around for the MMM measurement. It actually got ejected like 3 feet out into the center of the room, like a rocket o_O. I can't seem to get it back on, as the force of the spring is stronger than the force of friction caused by the threads :facepalm:. I suppose that's why it launched off in the first place.

IMG_0118-min.JPG


I ordered a new mic, but it will be a few weeks before I can do any testing again.
 

zym1010

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#13
Hmmm, I would ask for another. That doesn't sound right.

*Edit: I know Genelec reads these forums, perhaps one of them could chime in to help(don't know who to tag).


maybe, but I already broke some filmsy plastics around the battery compartment so getting a new one can be tricky.

now that I get the hang of it, buttons register 9 out 10 times. so it's usable.
 

zym1010

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#14
Ears don't count ;). Well, maybe they do, but only when not influenced by the eyes/brain :p.

Was actually hoping to test the GLM4 target curves again today to see if I could duplicate the buggy behavior(ie .5dB/oct, 1dB/oct, man-5,-6, and 4dB hf slope all measuring the same) I was seeing last week, but it seems it was not meant to be. The head on my mic popped off while moving the mic around for the MMM measurement. It actually got ejected like 3 feet out into the center of the room, like a rocket o_O. I can't seem to get it back on, as the force of the spring is stronger than the force of friction caused by the threads :facepalm:. I suppose that's why it launched off in the first place.

View attachment 105915

I ordered a new mic, but it will be a few weeks before I can do any testing again.

Can you try turning GLM on/off? or trying a VERY sloped target curve? It's very obvious. Maybe GLM4 has some bugs.
 

richard12511

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#15
Can you try turning GLM on/off? or trying a VERY sloped target curve? It's very obvious. Maybe GLM4 has some bugs.
GLM off vs on definitely makes a large difference(measurable and audible). It's the differences between manual -5, -6, etc. that I'm not sure sure about and wanting to measure again. Very well still could be user error, or user not using groups properly.
 

zym1010

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#16
GLM off vs on definitely makes a large difference(measurable and audible). It's the differences between manual -5, -6, etc. that I'm not sure sure about and wanting to measure again. Very well still could be user error, or user not using groups properly.
I see. I tried some non flat target before and I find that I like the flat one the best so I did not further bother with it.
 

zym1010

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#17
GLM off vs on definitely makes a large difference(measurable and audible). It's the differences between manual -5, -6, etc. that I'm not sure sure about and wanting to measure again. Very well still could be user error, or user not using groups properly.
if there is a measurable difference between GLM and no GLM, then in principle, there should a measurable difference between different curve settings? After all, different settings are just different EQs applied to the DSP inside a speaker.
 

thewas

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#18
From what I have read GLM cannot be compared to a full DRC solution and thus also follow any target as easily as its limited to the internal available filters of the different monitors, for example:

Monitors
8240, 8250: 4 notch + 4 shelving
8351, 8260, 1238CF/DF, 1237A, 1238A, 1234A, 1236A: 6 notch + 4 shelving
8320, 8330, 8340, 8350: 16 notch + 4 shelving

Subwoofers
SE system: 2 notch + 2 shelving
7260, 7270, 7271: 4 notch
7350, 7360, 7370: 20 notch

Source: https://www.community.genelec.com/f...e_boards_web_portlet_MBPortlet_message_908274
 
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