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Genelec GLM software and the 7350A Subwoofer

Sparky

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Hi all.

I have a question regarding the Genelec GLM software and how it integrates the "7" series SAM subwoofers with compatible SAM Monitors.

I am considering replacing my aged 12" sealed active subwoofers (Analogue RCA input only) with the 7350A to create a purely Digital signal flow from my 8341AWM's.
Currently, I use two subwoofers to cancel out the huge nulls/peaks in my lounge via a minidsp SHD and that works very well.
I get a flat frequency response from 17hz right up to my cross-over point which is great but this leads on to my question, will I need two 7350A's in my room to obtain the same flat response or does the GLM software do some sort of trickery to do the same but with just one 7350A?

As good as the GLM software is, I can't see how the DSP can break the laws of physics by creating the same flat response from just one subwoofer!

Any of you Genelec owners use two or more subs or is just the one sub ok?
 

Tonygeno

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Bass response is typically influenced by the room and sub placement. If you are getting nulls, GLM will not be able to help much. It will smooth out the peaks. If you have found two subs to fix your room, then I think you're going to need two 7350s.
 
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Sparky

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Bass response is typically influenced by the room and sub placement. If you are getting nulls, GLM will not be able to help much. It will smooth out the peaks. If you have found two subs to fix your room, then I think you're going to need two 7350s.
The reason I wrote this question is for the exact thing you've just said, nulls. No matter the room wether it be a dedicated studio, home or theatre, you will always get very large peaks and nulls with such low frequencies. Yet, any video, guide or review of these Genelec subs always refers to using just ONE subwoofer.

I watched a video recently of one of these Genelec subs being installed professionally in a studio environment and they showed the GLM measurements and they were god awful between 15-90 Hz due to the fact that just one sub was being utilised. The Genelec employee didn't seem phased (no pun intended) by this and treated it as being normal when it clearly wasn't.

I'm quite fortunate in my lounge as the two positions that my subs are in are quite optimal. I need minimal delay between my subs to get them aligned.

If I bought two of the Genelec subs and placed them in the same locations, will the GLM software be able to apply the necessary delays and treat them as one big sub or is it not as straightforward as that with GLM?
 

Sancus

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The 7350A is an 8" sub with a -6dB point of 22hz. It's not gonna be flat to 17hz, and it's not going to be able to play as loud as your existing subs. Personally I would stay away from Genelec subs unless you have the budget for higher end ones. It's not worth it.

You already have a miniDSP SHD, get some normal 12" sealed subs like SVS or Arendal and use Multi-Sub Optimizer.
 
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Sparky

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The 7350A is an 8" sub with a -6dB point of 22hz. It's not gonna be flat to 17hz, and it's not going to be able to play as loud as your existing subs. Personally I would stay away from Genelec subs unless you have the budget for higher end ones. It's not worth it.

You already have a miniDSP SHD, get some normal 12" sealed subs like SVS or Arendal and use Multi-Sub Optimizer.
Hi Sancus.

I feel I need to explain my reasoning behind this idea and my current set up so you might understand what I'm trying to achieve.

My current subs are 12" sealed and will easily go to 14hz in my room which, although sounds good, in actual fact it's uncomfortable in reality. Its far too much low end to be enjoyable. Their design is old school in that the are class AB with a huge toroidal transformer inside. These transformers hum like you wouldn't believe. Sometimes they're almost silent but them they will hum and it is clearly audible.

The time has come to move them on for something more modern but, I don't want to buy single ended as the subs introduce ground loops. Problem is, the cheapest decent subs with balanced inputs are at least £1500 a piece and I don't have that sort of budget. I've looked at the Genelec 7350A instead, can pick them up for £899 each which is more affordable and have the added benefit of being able to blend with my 8341's easily with the GLM software.

I'm thinking that, although they're only 8", I will gain a few DB due to boundary gain plus another few DB due to having two of them. I may not quite reach 16-17hz but it'll be close.....in my head it will be anyway......
 

greenmountains

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The only way I think one sub would be okay is if you know you're going to sit in in the exact same spot every time (like if you were an audio engineer mixing a record.) As your setup is a lounge, I think you'd want two subs.

I've got 8330s and a single 7350 in a relatively small room. In my one fixed position, GLM and the calibration work fine. If I move away just a few feet, there's chaos.
 
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The only way I think one sub would be okay is if you know you're going to sit in in the exact same spot every time (like if you were an audio engineer mixing a record.) As your setup is a lounge, I think you'd want two subs.

I've got 8330s and a single 7350 in a relatively small room. In my one fixed position, GLM and the calibration work fine. If I move away just a few feet, there's chaos.
You're so right pal. With one sub it's ok in just one single spot but deviate from that and you're screwed. I think most people don't understand that and just assume they can add a sub and be done with it but it's more complicated than that....much more...

Had a few friends over at weekend and played a few decent tunes. One friend was sat in the armchair off to the side which is an area that isn't calibrated for. He suggested there was far too much bass. I put him in the sweet spot in the centre of the couch and the smile that suddenly appeared on his face.

Aligning subwoofers is a tricky business but once you nail it (or as good as), it transforms your listening experience.
 
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The only way I think one sub would be okay is if you know you're going to sit in in the exact same spot every time (like if you were an audio engineer mixing a record.) As your setup is a lounge, I think you'd want two subs.

I've got 8330s and a single 7350 in a relatively small room. In my one fixed position, GLM and the calibration work fine. If I move away just a few feet, there's chaos.
What's your genuine thoughts on the 7350? Decent sub?
 

mkt

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2-channel.png

With GLM, in a very small room with one chair, at modest volume, nearfield.
There have been reports of port noise here https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...not-for-nearfield-listening.12664/post-378520 not something that I've noticed with music
 
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Sparky

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Its funny you know because my two subs playing together with no delay or eq play extremely similar to the measurement you've just posted. Very flat to around 50hz but after that it's a free-for -all....

I wonder if that's a common theme in most rooms?
 

greenmountains

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For me the 7350 is perfect. Genelec and GLM are very clever. Integration between 7350/8330s is great.

My room is small though. I was wondering if the 7350 would be enough for a larger room and saw this post on Gearspace. If he's doing fine with 1, I think 2 should be good.


I have the 8341 with ONE 7350. Because I have to sit in a spot where the bass from the speakers is too weak, I got a 7350 to help with that.

Unless you intend to play at very high, ear-piercing, volume levels, the subs will keep up. For that idiotic client who is hell bent on destroying his hearing before he reaches 30 or for club levels, my sub can't keep up. BUT for levels that are healthy and sustainable for a full day of mixing, there is no need for anything bigger.
 

mkt

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Ahhh. This is what I like to see! In room measurements....:)

So am I looking at your monitors or the sub/s here? I would be happy with with this response if it was subs.
Monitors (8331) with bass management. This is the sub
LFE.png

And in GLM. Red is measured, blue filter, and green corrected.
glm-sub.png

(I am pretty inexpert at all this)
 
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Sparky

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For me the 7350 is perfect. Genelec and GLM are very clever. Integration between 7350/8330s is great.

My room is small though. I was wondering if the 7350 would be enough for a larger room and saw this post on Gearspace. If he's doing fine with 1, I think 2 should be good.

How big is your room though? My lounge is only small at around 3.8 x 4.5 mtrs. Opens out to a kitchen diner via a door that is always open so I guess the subs have to pressurise that to too.
For me the 7350 is perfect. Genelec and GLM are very clever. Integration between 7350/8330s is great.

My room is small though. I was wondering if the 7350 would be enough for a larger room and saw this post on Gearspace. If he's doing fine with 1, I think 2 should be good.

I remember looking at the max SPL of the 8341's and thinking that, in my room, they would not cut it but they definitely do! I've never seen the clipping light come on and I've pushed them to uncomfortable levels on occasion when I know the neighbours are out.

Looking at the 7350A, yeah they're only 8" but the technology involved allows them to be a viable option.
 
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Monitors (8331) with bass management. This is the sub
View attachment 194084
And in GLM. Red is measured, blue filter, and green corrected.
View attachment 194086
(I am pretty inexpert at all this)
If that's just one sub then you're incredibly lucky that you're MLP is located within a huge peak! Gives the GLM software something to play with. I'm hoping you're adding a few extra DB to that filter for a bit of punch low down! I have my subs playing +6 DB for a nice kick....:)
 
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Iskariota

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Hey Guys.

I run 2 x 8341As on iron stands (hanging mount) with one 7360A in a 25m2 room (roughly square-shaped; ceiling 2,75m high) with no treatment and low-to-medium clutter, no rugs. Before adding the sub I had some serious standing wave issues on a very narrow range of low frequencies but the sub fixed them as I expected. GLM works miracles although current iteration (4.1.2) has a small hiccup where it doesn't load the calibrated preset into the sub at startup (fine with monitors) and you have to click the preset button in the app to "nudge" it. Proud to say I brought the bug to Genelec's attention and they are now in the process of fixing it with a new firmware/GLM update! Fantastic support all-round I must say.

And the one sub is enough, trust me. Those things are fabulously powerful and work absolute wonders with the unparalleled GLM calibration -- which IMO is a must already for the 8341As alone, and unquestionably when the sub is involved.

Anyways, my two cents. I feed the Genelec gear from an RME ADI-2 FS and this set up will stay with me until something breaks. I can't imagine any piece of boutique hardware beating the sheer science of it all (also helps I'm an unsentimental clarity and 1:1 reproduction freak lol).

Happy to answer any questions.

Also my first post on ASR :D

Peace.
 
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Sparky

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Hey Guys.

I run 2 x 8341As on iron stands (hanging mount) with one 7360A in a 25m2 room (roughly square-shaped; ceiling 2,75m high) with no treatment and low-to-medium clutter, no rugs. Before adding the sub I had some serious standing wave issues on a very narrow range of low frequencies but the sub fixed them as I expected. GLM works miracles although current iteration (4.1.2) has a small hiccup where it doesn't load the calibrated preset into the sub at startup (fine with monitors) and you have to click the preset button in the app to "nudge" it. Proud to say I brought the bug to Genelec's attention and they are now in the process of fixing it with a new firmware/GLM update! Fantastic support all-round I must say.

And the one sub is enough, trust me. Those things are fabulously powerful and work absolute wonders with the unparalleled GLM calibration -- which IMO is a must already for the 8341As alone, and unquestionably when the sub is involved.

Anyways, my two cents. I feed the Genelec gear from an RME ADI-2 FS and this set up will stay with me until something breaks. I can't imagine any piece of boutique hardware beating the sheer science of it all (also helps I'm an unsentimental clarity and 1:1 reproduction freak lol).

Happy to answer any questions.

Also my first post on ASR :D

Peace.
Wow! What a first post! :)
Welcome to the mad-house! :D

I totally agree that the GLM software is something special. I've used Anthem Room Correction, DIRAC, Audyssey and tried using Room Perfect and none of those come close to GLM. For ease of use and functionality it is second to none (that I'm aware of).

Your post is encouraging to me in as I feel that a pair of 7350's will be killer in my room.

Its not just that, if I get the 7350's, I'll no longer need a DAC so could maybe get the minidsp SHD Studio and be done with it all.
 

Iskariota

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Wow! What a first post! :)
Welcome to the mad-house! :D

I totally agree that the GLM software is something special. I've used Anthem Room Correction, DIRAC, Audyssey and tried using Room Perfect and none of those come close to GLM. For ease of use and functionality it is second to none (that I'm aware of).

Your post is encouraging to me in as I feel that a pair of 7350's will be killer in my room.

Its not just that, if I get the 7350's, I'll no longer need a DAC so could maybe get the minidsp SHD Studio and be done with it all.
Hey-hey. Thanks for the welcome :)

Running two 73XX series subs is no problem for GLM as the manual already provides instruction for daisy-chaining, though it does entail a bit more work at setup.

On another thought, maybe it would be worth considering just doing a single bigger one instead of two? Would simplify the setup and perhaps be lighter on the wallet.

In any case, I'm sure you'll love the result. And those subs are built like tanks. Same as everything Genelec really, which I absolutely love about it.
 

Tonygeno

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Hey-hey. Thanks for the welcome :)

Running two 73XX series subs is no problem for GLM as the manual already provides instruction for daisy-chaining, though it does entail a bit more work at setup.

On another thought, maybe it would be worth considering just doing a single bigger one instead of two? Would simplify the setup and perhaps be lighter on the wallet.

In any case, I'm sure you'll love the result. And those subs are built like tanks. Same as everything Genelec really, which I absolutely love about it.
A single bigger sub will go lower and louder. That’s the way I’d go.
 
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